Freeride World Tour

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Originally Posted by powdork

When skiers leave Cham to go to Alaska

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I'm over people gushing over european skiing like it's something magical we don't have here in North America. We have literally 10 times the mountains here that they have. They are taller. They are as prominent. They get as much or more snow. There is nothing magic about skiing in Europe (and definitely nothing real world) that makes it any better than skiing here in the states. And yes, i've done both

Sure we’ve got more mountains and more snow. But the terrain accessible from lifts in Europe is a different level. They’d put a lift right up Mt Whitney and let people ski it with no avalanche control work.

Praise the baby jesus we don't let that shit happen here. People ski Whitney all the time anyway. Alkasquawlik had to bring Honnold with him because it's not that exciting. Also it would be ridiculous to not include Canada in this equation.

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Originally Posted by powdork

Praise the baby jesus we don't let that shit happen here.

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Praise be that you can ski 1run of 400m
( MORE THAN 1000FEEET OF POW!!!!!!)vertical pow with 1000 others and wait in line for 2hours for another chop run and call it a pow day.

I mean I get your patriotism, but get a grip. Every second resort in Europe trumps 90+% of the terrain in North America.
I mean I only skied revelstoke in NA....but I was pretty underwhelmed.
I've skied Austrian family resorts with better terrain.

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Originally Posted by subtle plague

I mean I get your patriotism, but get a grip. Every second resort in Europe trumps 90+% of the terrain in North America.
I mean I only skied revelstoke in NA....

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You talk about patriotism and bring BS statements like "Every second resort in Europe trumps 90+% of the terrain in North America". And yet you've only skied one resort in NA, and neither of the resorts this discussion is about. Sounds like blind patriotism to me.

Midway thru a 5,000’+ pow run off the back side of Heavenly. There were no lines
Attachment 387001

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Originally Posted by powdork

Midway thru a 5,000’+ pow run off the back side of Heavenly. There were no lines
Attachment 387001

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Yes, and how often is that in skiable shape? And did you hop back on a lift at the bottom?

FWIW i skied a 9200' fully lift served lap with my 60 yr old groomer zoomer inlaws in Yurp a couple years back. Hopped back on the lifts at the bottom. We took the intermediate way down, because Chamonix is fucking scary.

NA ski areas<Yurp resorts< Alaska. Sound about right?

It's in at some point most years. Typically you drop a car at the bottom or hitchhiking always seems to work. You can easily do three in a day.

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Originally Posted by californiagrown

NA ski areas<Yurp resorts< Alaska. Sound about right?

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I'll settle with some ski resorts are better than others. Some are in Europe and some aren't. I agree Chamonix is an amazing place. But if you asked whether I wanted to ski in Chamonix or Little Cottonwood my decision would be based on the snow conditions at each place. FWIW, as long as lines don't alter things, I see no benefit to a 1500m vertical run as compared to two 750m runs, especially when the 750m run keeps you in the good snow conditions.

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Originally Posted by subtle plague

Praise be that you can ski 1run of 400m
( MORE THAN 1000FEEET OF POW!!!!!!)vertical pow with 1000 others and wait in line for 2hours for another chop run and call it a pow day.

I mean I get your patriotism, but get a grip. Every second resort in Europe trumps 90+% of the terrain in North America.
I mean I only skied revelstoke in NA....but I was pretty underwhelmed.
I've skied Austrian family resorts with better terrain.

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You know Alaska is in North America, right? lol... have you skied there?

Attachment 387045

Why are you bringing up AK when the dude is clearly talking about lift-accessed terrain?

And I guess you can't Tour 1500m from the car in Europe? [emoji6]

Europe clearly has the far superior lift skiing. They have chopped down every tree they have, eradicated all native species, put roads, chairlifts, houses, and cows on every conceivable surface. You can be fat and clueless and easily ski just about any nook and cranny you want. It's like Disneyland took over a mountain range.

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Originally Posted by kathleenturneroverdrive

Why are you bringing up AK when the dude is clearly talking about lift-accessed terrain?

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Because the original conversation wasn't just about one resort, it also referenced the surrounding mountains. So like I said, to just dismiss the Eastern Sierra is a little foolish.

Anyway, moving on, this is boring...

I thought the initial discussion was comparing the size of the Sierra and the Pyrenees before a bunch of dick waving got involved and someone wanted to count the Alps in the total area. Overall the ranges are very similar in area, but if you're looking at the high regions it looks like the Sierra are 1.5 to 2x larger.

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Originally Posted by abraham

if you're looking at the high regions it looks like the Sierra are 1.5 to 2x larger.

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It is legal in both NV and CA now....

Ya, and in the Pyranees, you have to try to figure out what signs like this mean

http://listdose.co/wp-content/upload...SH-300x184.jpg

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Originally Posted by altasnob

Ya, and in the Pyranees, you have to try to figure out what signs like this mean

http://listdose.co/wp-content/upload...SH-300x184.jpg

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On no, poor baby, they don't cater to English or romance language speakers. Keeping languages alive should be applauded, you're just a guest.

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Originally Posted by californiagrown

It is legal in both NV and CA now....

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Ha, but there's lots of fed land.

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Originally Posted by abraham

On no, poor baby, they don't cater to English or romance language speakers. Keeping languages alive should be applauded, you're just a guest. Ha, but there's lots of fed land.

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If you can't read the signs, they all just say 'Open'.
I've somehow managed to get high on federal lands close to 100% of the days for the last 28 years.

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Originally Posted by Long duc dong

I didn't mean to dismiss that area at all. I spent about half my weekends in college at Mammoth, and I spend about half there now. I spent half a decade skiing Squaw. I absolutely love the Sierra. I always find it funny when I hear people in socal talk about 'skiing out of state' as if it is much better than what is found in California. California compares favorably to any state in the US when it comes to skiing. I don't want to get people to start comparing things, but I think lots of socal people don't realize that they have one of the truly great mountain in North America within weekend shooting distance. Judging by the crowds, obviously many DO realize it. But I sometimes hear them talk about going to Colorado ski much better mountains, and I don't think they really get what they have here.

I have never skied in Europe, so it is really hard for me to know how it compares. I have seen tons of footage/photos of Cham/Verbier and those spots, I just don't know all that much about the Pyrenees. I think most would say that Verbier is in a different league than Mammoth, but I am not the person to ask as I ski Mammoth, not Verbier.

I grew up skiing back east. Sorry to piss anyone off, but the mountains in the Sierra DESTROY the places in New York and Vermont that I skied as a kid. I would think we can all agree on that. :D

I feel incredibly lucky that my winter weekends are a decision between Mammoth, or Baldy and maybe some surfing. I also think that among big resorts in the US Mammoth is one of the most underrated.

Powdork,

I would agree that Mammoth is not necessarily the best place to hold an inbounds comp. Don't get me wrong, I love the mountain, but while it does have some technical steeps and cliffs it's more about long, open lines. I have never competed, even when Iived in Tahoe I sucked, but I would guess that for a comp you want long lines with multiple cruxes. There is not really a whole lot of that in Mammoth. In the Paranoids area you could start in the P4/Kiwi area, but once you are done with that there is not another area below it. Unless you are doing something NUTS like Guerlain it does not offer a whole lot of options with multiple cruxes.

Back when I lived in Tahoe (I left in 2004) some of my buddies competed in a comp at Mammoth. I guess the guy who won on the first day straightlined the Paraniods. The last day was held in the Top of the World, which is a sick place to start, but you would want at least one more zone below that. Don't get me wrong, I love seeing guys ski the TOTW and rip lines I ski VERY slowly and cautiously, and that is only in big years, but you want a bit more for a comp. I'm trying to remember who put that contest on, but it was a ways back.

I think years ago they were going to do the final day of the Mammoth comp at Mt. Mcgee. I'm not sure if that ever happened.

The line Guerlain Chicherit put down is still one of my favorites to watch. What is crazy is how different what he did was compared to everyone else. I actually saw this on TV back after it happened. I saw guys like McConkey, Kreitler, I think Davenport, maybe Gordy Pfeiffer, all guys I had been watching in movies for a while. Then this French guy I had never heard of comes in and just goes nuts. I wish there was more footage of Chicherit available.

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Just saw this for some reason. I think I saw the Chicherit run on TV too. Didn't he end up with a bloody nose from one of the drops (maybe even the front flip). You're exactly right about Mammoth for comps. Mount McGee was the year that Hale Woods tried to do the Nissan Quest at Mammoth (Top of the World) with the finals at McGee. Due to weather, alll they could get off was one day on Oh Shit Ridge.
Here's an interactive map I made in advance of the event (hover over sections for closeup). The page is orphan now so the links may be broken
https://www.aboutlaketahoe.com/ski_r...e-mountain.htm

After the last two pages I learned that California has mountains and Europe has mountains and it's stupid to try and compare them because of significant differences in development and culture.

Can we discuss FWT now please? BobInch posted a nice dream roster of venues, let's discuss that instead of getting butt hurt our local ski resort isn't hosting an event.

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Originally Posted by abraham

On no, poor baby, they don't cater to English or romance language speakers. Keeping languages alive should be applauded, you're just a guest.

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It was a joke. My only journey to the Pyranees was 20 years ago, train from Barcelona to San Sebastian, with stops in Bilbou, and Biarritz (surfed Napoleon's go to spot). First indoctrination into the Basque culture and language. It blows my mind they have words unpronounceable by native English speakers. They are not even sure where the fuck the language and Basque people originated. Possibly Caucus mountains.

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Originally Posted by total_immortal

After the last two pages I learned that California has mountains and Europe has mountains and it's stupid to try and compare them because of significant differences in development and culture.

Can we discuss FWT now please? BobInch posted a nice dream roster of venues, let's discuss that instead of getting butt hurt our local ski resort isn't hosting an event.

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I still want my AK stop back. Alien terrain that was just on another level, but didn't make me fear for the lives of the riders like nearly every other stop.

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Originally Posted by TahoeJ

You know Alaska is in North America, right? lol... have you skied there?

Attachment 387045

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Yeah, twice. You?
And this is getting weird.

Since we're getting all high, I just want to add that you never ever should get into a weed smoking session with a spanish guy, much less with an Euskadi guy. I've never seen anyone anihilate weed like Basque climbers. Truly astounding.

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Originally Posted by total_immortal

Can we discuss FWT now please?

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Sure thing. I would like to formally request all FWT be moved to Heavenly.

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Originally Posted by kathleenturneroverdrive

Sure thing. I would like to formally request all FWT be moved to Heavenly.

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Only if it's the backside of Heavenly with a car shuttle...

Agree that another AK stop would be super rad and I would like to see it come back.

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Originally Posted by total_immortal

I like it! Only change would potentially be Jackson. Where would the venue be? Everything is pretty short compared to the Euro stops. Maybe trade it for Snowbird, Tram Face at Squaw (if it's in), or maybe Big Sky? Off the top of my head, very few venues in The States worthy of a FWT stop. Kirkwood meets the bill for sure, but I'm struggling to think of any venues with more than 1000 feet of vert.

Oh! and what about Fieberbrunn? I really like that venue.

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Kirkwoods is 1600'. Haven't been a huge fan of snowbird really it seems to get more monotonous than some others. There are tons of >1,000' faces here, if they could do it like in Europe where it's on faces near the resort rather than closing off part of a resort (like Shuksan Arm (is that featured enough?).

I’d love to see them run a comp on Mt superior in LCC but I’m afraid the logistics with the road are too much. I do believe that Snowbird owns most if not all of the south face of superior. Also I’m sure the BC skiing community would put up a huge fight as I think the fwt would demand that the face stay closed for a few days prior to the comp. North Baldy is a great comp venue but it’s been skied so many times that the lines seem repetitive. But the same could be said for the Bec, although that’s considerably steeper and much more exposure. Baldy bowl at the bird could be a sick venue, but seemingly the Bird has zero interest in allowing that.


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South face of Superior would be a fantastic comp venue imo. Won't ever happen with the road and the backcountry community as you said, but damn would it ever be fun to watch.

Superior would be awesome if it weren't south facing.

Lets get back to this Europe vs NA thing. :D
At least we're not shrinking.
https://weather.com/news/climate/vid...ter-every-year


But seriously, in the caption and in the video they say that the entire range of mountains is on the glacier, rather than the other way around

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Originally Posted by powdork

Kirkwoods is 1600'. Haven't been a huge fan of snowbird really it seems to get more monotonous than some others. There are tons of >1,000' faces here, if they could do it like in Europe where it's on faces near the resort rather than closing off part of a resort (like Shuksan Arm (is that featured enough?).

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Shuksan Arm at Baker is the best venue in the lower 48 IMO (it's like a mini version of the Chugach). Problem is, I don't think it is in the ski area permit area (I believe it is in wilderness). So there is no way the Forest Service would ever allow a commercial event there.

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Originally Posted by P.A.B.C.

Superior would be awesome if it weren't south facing.

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You'd have to do in January and pray for good early snowfall, which means it's untenable. Setting up a start hut at the top, getting rescue personnel and ski retrievers in place, etc. doesn't seem feasible either. It's a nice idea, but just not realistic.

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Originally Posted by Dantheman

You'd have to do in January and pray for good early snowfall, which means it's untenable. Setting up a start hut at the top, getting rescue personnel and ski retrievers in place, etc. doesn't seem feasible either. It's a nice idea, but just not realistic.

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That ultimately seems like the biggest difference between Europe and NA. All questions of terrain and snowfall aside, the logistics of running a large competition with all of the infrastructure needed for that operation seems a whole lot easier at many of the European venues. Not to mention shipping the whole dog and pony show back and forth across the Atlantic adds a bunch of expense both for the organization and the competitors.

^Yeah but wouldn't it make sense to do more than one event in North America while they're already here for Kicking Horse

When the FWT first started there was a small but vocal contingent of skiers (some still on the tour) who were fairly vocal that North American venues were rinky-dink and dumb. Which, shit, I'd be annoyed too if I had to fly halfway across the world to compete on Silverado for a few grand. I wonder if that attitude's still prevalent or not...

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Originally Posted by powdork

^Yeah but wouldn't it make sense to do more than one event in North America while they're already here for Kicking Horse

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Probably, but I'm not sure those venues really exist. At least with mountain biking world cups (which has a similarly euro-centric schedule as the FWT), the venue bears a lot of the expense for putting on the competition. There are pretty significant expenses associated with setting up the course and paying for personnel, much of which is paid for by the venue - I've heard numbers in the neighborhood of $1 million for a single weekend of world cup level mountain bike racing. Which means lots of viable venues aren't interested - the benefit isn't there for them.

I have no idea how the FWT is set up, and how much of the cost is born by the organization vs. the venue. But I wouldn't be surprised if the cost / benefit ratio just didn't really pan out for a lot of the NA resorts.

UCI must have much deeper pockets than FWT, so I'm sure hosting a FWT event is a loss-leader marketing stunt. People who watch FWT events, or know what the FWT even is, aren't exactly Vail and Alterra's prime marketing demographic. Zero fucks given.

The founder of the FWT talked about the various difficulties of US venues on the Low Pressure Podcast last year. He said he's still trying to get one back at some point.

Wild card announcements, etc.

https://www.skimag.com/performance/c...-2022-preview/