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Well you can, but the brakes go with it. It's the same heel on top of either plastic option. Leash time!Quote:
Originally Posted by oetk2
I use ATK crampons and have never bothered with the keeper clip. Maybe I should worry more about lateral play, but so far they've stayed centered.Quote:
Originally Posted by riff
Consider tying them to your crampons, as shown in the reviews here: https://skimo.co/salomon-mtn-binding
Can anybody tell me what the difference between the Crest and the new RT 10 is? I have both older RT 2.0 (fixed heel, 5mm ramp delta) and Freeraider 12s (elastic heel, with toe adjustment plate for less ramp delta - probably at 6mm-ish now).
Both the Crest and the RT 10 seems to both have an elastic heel, and are lighter than the RT 2.0. Does anybody know what the ramp delta is for these bindings? Moving the brake back to the heel and the inclusion of elasticity in the heel might make them more similar to the Freeraider than the RTs?
Quote:
Originally Posted by caulfield
I use the Plum crampons and I've never used the clip. I don't even know if I could find mine.
I have them tied on for sure, that cord is taking a beating and will need to be replaced a few times a year.....Quote:
Originally Posted by caulfield
Sent from my SM-G960U using TGR Forums mobile app
They are very similar. The RT has three differencesQuote:
Originally Posted by sf
Magnetic heel flappers and uhv on toe, and toe has more material removed to make it lighter
U.H.V.® System (Up-hill Hardness Variator): system that allows to change the up-hill locking hardness of the toe part. It compensates the boot toe insert wear and tear during the years, provides a proper locking strenght for each user and reduces the pressures on the locking mechanism.
Yes, thanks.Quote:
Originally Posted by lucknau
Not quite there yet, will give em a few more days before decidingQuote:
Originally Posted by caulfield
Ok, thanks. Any idea about ramp?Quote:
Originally Posted by timmaio
It should be exactly the same, but may have some slight discrepancy without checking both to be sureQuote:
Originally Posted by sf
Ok, but I was thinking about RT10/Crest vs RT2.0 and the Freeraiders.Quote:
Originally Posted by timmaio
ATK has to be one of the most confusing ranges out there. Coupled with the US import Hagen and BD debacle.
They first came to the US a while back branded as La Sportiva then quickly disappeared because of an epidemic of broken toe wings.Quote:
Originally Posted by CaliBrit
Sent from my Pixel 3a using TGR Forums mobile app
Continuing with the ATK confusion, it looks like they have a more "normal" version of the Raider now they are calling the R12. That is a binding I want to buy.
https://www.atkbindings.com/en/prodo...tblue-2019-en/
I recently sort of suggested that one to a friend who might be scared of the front binding brake of the Raider 2.0. I say sort of suggested, because you NEVER buy an AT binding the first year it's sold to the public.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jtlange
So to help with the "confusion", just got to the ATK site when interested, and then see if the same thing is carried by Hagen or BD, then if you like it, buy it from Telemark-Pyrenees, or wherever, and then source parts from the US brands, (not that you'll ever need parts).
Totally with you on that. Im not scared of the front brake per say, I just like the look of that toe a little more. Also, neither Hagan or BD have that binding on their site. I just sent an email to Hagan asking if they were going to get that in this year, which I doubt they will. Also, I wonder if the brake eliminates the need for the freeride spacer. Im very curious.Quote:
Originally Posted by plugboots
From the site, it's optional:
So I think it's implied that the brake does not replace the spacer.Quote:
New FREERIDE SPACER ( optional ): with this new accessory, we covered and exceeded the gap in between tech and apline bindings providing an astonishing downhill performance.
Wait, sorry, I think the link I posted earlier was the original Raider binding? Is that correct?
Dude. That binding, the RT12 is new for this season. Read the description:Quote:
Originally Posted by Jtlange
Quote:
Developing the new RAIDER family has been the hardest challenge in the whole ATK® company life. How to improve our R12 2.0 collection?
The new “R12” family shows 4 different productive Technologies and 6 ATK® Patents, among which the new Snow Pack Proof System® which avoids the snow, ice or debris entrance under the toe piece locking mechanism.
Yep, youre right. Reading comprehension is poor today. Thanks,Quote:
Originally Posted by plugboots
Bumping this. The new ATK line really LOOKS great.
R12 or FR14 or even the crest 10.
https://www.atkbindings.com/en/produ...ee-touring-en/
Only the crest 10 has a hagen counterpart - the pure 10.
https://www.haganskimountaineering.c...ure-10-binding
https://www.atkbindings.com/wp-conte.../r12_rev04.pdf
Things I want to know:
-what is the delta between pin heights? I care more about this
Things I know:
-330-360g with brakes.
-3 riser heights
-seemingly simple system/mechanism for brake retraction while touring
Things I think I know, but I want one of the engineers to agree or disagree.
-minimal elasticity, probably a typically harsh tech binding ride
-more likely to cause a tib/fib than an ACL injury. No lateral toe release like a vipec/tecton.
Trying to choose a binding in this class is proving difficult. I want brakes, a flat-ish ramp, 300g class weight, and good ease of use.
I am sensitive to ramp angle, so the xenic is out.
I am sensitive to bindings breaking for no good reason, so I'm leery of the Zed.
I am sensitive to being markered, but the alpinist reviews seem very good. Flat ramp is nice.
And then there's the ATK family. Which I don't know enough about yet.
Alpinist also is very easily obtained here in the states and cheaper than the others. But then it's...marker...
What would the mags do?
Ive spent a few hundred days on the Freeraider 14 2.0 over the last couple years, and love them. I trust their release and durability more than any touring binding out there.
I haven’t skied the new FR series, but have played with them in person, and generally approve of the changes.
I have no idea (nor do I care) about ramp angle, but I’ve found their customer service to be excellent, so I recommend emailing them. It’s a small company, so you’ll probably be connected with their engineer / designer, who can answer anything.
I don't know about the delta on the new ones, but I have a hard time imagening that it's less than on the old ones. The brake pads get on the way of that, is my guess.
The old 12 could be shimmed with atks own toe adjustment paf, bringing it down to 6mm-ish.
Pretty sure the shim for the old 12 would work on the crest, but not the new 12
Brake pedestal does not replace Freeride spacer on either r12 or r14. That is why the r14 comes with those extra spacers, which when mounted have a sliding afds and are independent of the brake pedestal. The height adjument is then hidden by the sliding afds. Lots of moving parts...... Optionally you can run the spacer AL09.Quote:
Originally Posted by plugboots
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
MTN lab not being considered? Guess a bit heavier than you're looking. Mine are 400g screws, brakes all inQuote:
Originally Posted by SupreChicken
Just guessing, but with his stated concern about tib/fib, maybe it's about not having a fine adjust for lateral release?Quote:
Originally Posted by oetk2
I know they'd be on my sort list if it weren't for that.
... Thom
It’s the ramp. That’s what I don’t like about the mtn. The heels are 9mm taller than the toe. No thanks.
Shimming is easy.Quote:
Originally Posted by SupreChicken
... Thom
Could you do without brakes? It’s flatter with heel piece mounted directly to skiQuote:
Originally Posted by SupreChicken
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Could I? Yes.Quote:
Originally Posted by caulfield
Even been touring with someone you swear was dumb enough to lose a ski?
That might be me. I might be a brakes and leashes cat.
But mostly, I just hate looking like a complete idiot trying to transition to ski mode and being unable to get into the damn binding. Brakes seem to help.
And yes.
I can shim. I shimmed my vipecs and tectons. Would rather not have to add weight to a 300g clamp.
I've been thinking of carrying a light set of leashes (for sketchy transitions) with skis that I normally run with brakes.Quote:
Originally Posted by SupreChicken
Tired an fumbly at the top, with a transition where brakes don't do much good, and the weather is crappy - a combination that sets me up for a stupid moment.
The sketchy nature of clicking into my Vipec Blacks got me to thinking about this last year.
Maybe it's just simpler to ditch the brakes on these skis and go with leashes on all of my skis ... or, as you said, go with the belts and braces approach.
... Thom
Gotta say, the ATK R12 and Crest 10 look pretty dope. If you're down on the others, those gotta be tops.
How do they differ again? Besides DIN (10 vs 12)?
Crest has the elastic response system - 8mm spring loaded heel combined with 4mm gap.
I'm not sure about the R12/FR14.
[edit]The R12/FR14 also have the elastic response system (https://www.atkbindings.com/en/prodo.../r12-white-en/). They also have some sort of anti-icing configuration in the toe. It's unclear whether the toe is a monolink (like the Crest) or not.
... Thom
Belts and braces approach? Did I miss this in this thread somewhere? What is this?Quote:
Originally Posted by galibier_numero_un
It's British slang, meaning redundancy. Braces are suspenders. Belts are, well ... belts.Quote:
Originally Posted by billyhoyle
... Thom
Looking at a good deal for ATK Crest but it’s got 75 mm brakes. My ski is 96mm, just wondering if anybody with ATk can give me an idea of actual vs stated brake width and how delicate they might be/ how much room I have to play. Normal alpine I would have little trouble bending the shit out of them but with lightweight touring stuff I thought I’d ask. 21mm is quite a bit of bending.
ETA: yay! 200 posts! What, another 1800 and I might lose a bit of my JONGness?
Unlike the others, ATK brakes sizes are pretty spot on. BUT, ATK brakes are also thin, so I guess you can bend them easily. I've successfully bent G3 Ion 85mm brakes for 115mm ski and they worked ok. Anyway, due to how thin ATK brakes are, they won't stop your ski on a slope.Quote:
Originally Posted by Falcon3
Toe is not monolink. No springs in toe, it works very similarly to the Revolution race binding. I have seen those race bindings in use for 4 years or so, work great. https://www.atkbindings.com/wp-conte...ght-blue-3.pngQuote:
Originally Posted by galibier_numero_un
You can replace those brakes with a different size: https://www.atkbindings.com/en/prodo...ear-ski-brake/Quote:
Originally Posted by HukuTa_KydecHuk
This is why I'm perplexed by the dynafit... That big freaking gapQuote:
Originally Posted by Norseman
I have 1 day on the backland/mtn I've been impressed by the binding for a while, it's so light and simple and basically all metal leading to great durability. My number 1 favorite thing about it though is the way the brakes lock out. The fiddling with brakes on dynafit/G3 etc is just silly. I've had problems getting them back into ski mode after a long tour as well. With the sollys no twisting the tower, no nothing, just flip a lever and you are good to go.
FINALLY got my ATK Crests from Snowinn, ordered as a backup from a Sportsprofi order that got lost in the mail. They look fantastic, but the brakes leave something to be desired. I thought Dynafit brakes were worthless, but these are like trying to stop your ski with short toothpicks.
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