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Don't you want them to be grabby on groomers? I find them to be loose in soft snow and one of the most fun +110mm carvers. My Billy Goat asym are even looser in soft snow, but way less fun on groomers.Quote:
Originally Posted by D(C)
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Sounds like another crappy factory Rossignol tune(edge high and/or low or uneven base bevel). Stone grind flat and reset the base bevel by hand to 1 degree tip to tail.Quote:
Originally Posted by D(C)
Shouldn’t have to detune any modern, non indie ski below their widest taper point and they should be plenty loose flat but properly bite on edge.
The MFree 108 will still always be looser due to increased rocker and taper with the Sender Free 110 being the more precise version of that ski.
That grabby feeling was something I just couldn’t get past on my first pair. On my newest pair, I carried a gummy and just kept hitting the full length of the ski until they felt right. I like them now on groomers but it was a much more involved process than with other skis.Quote:
Originally Posted by D(C)
Finally mounted my 118’s after a year of sitting in the back of my gear room and got them out in some less than ideal conditions last weekend. So good everywhere, especially in soft bumps. Can see pulling these out any time the snow is soft! Love them at -2 from rec
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Interesting as the symmetrical dimensions make these totally carvacious and fun on hard pack or junky pushed around piles on the groom. Been lucky on the first couple pair that I owned and actually put a fair number of days on both never receiving a tune either pair and they skied with great grip the whole time. Rocks can change that of course. Not a fan of detuning. Had shops ruin pairs of my new skis early on thinking everyone likes or needs the same thing. My last couple pair of 118’s I didn’t ski as much as the first two as I wanted to try different skis and now holy crap 8 years later I’m older and while the intensity is still thereQuote:
Originally Posted by D(C)
I am drifting toward other things and not skiing quite as much. Short story made even longer never detuned the last two pair and they raged pretty much like the earlier ones. Up at Blackcomb Base that computerized Winter Steiger automated machine takes human error by and large out of the equation imo if you feel the need to flatten and restore base and side edge’ to oem spec.
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Had my BO 118(-2.5cm at 175lbs) out in 5” of fresh at Sunshine Village yesterday and they were a riot! Loving the -2.5cm mount(was -2.25cm before on the previous set) and killed it on the scrapped off groomers later in the afternoon where a Billy Goat skier was complaining of no edge grip in those sections.
Even skied it today with no new snow and was still fun in the bumps, trees and soft groomers. Such a great ski!!
-2.5 from Rec?
Yes, sorry -2.5cm from rec/-5cm total back from Center. My previous pair were -2.25cm from rec and occasionally found I had to lean back or adjust stance in powder but have had no issues with -2.5cm so far. Feel perfect here.Quote:
Originally Posted by JRainey
What size are you again?
I was able to resolve my hard snow grabbiness issues on my 118s with some diamond stone work on the base edge. It’s possible that they came from the factory with a hanging burr, an issue I’ve had with other new skis. They’re now intuitive and awesome.
I get what all the fuss is about in chop. The flex and weight does a nice job of smoothing things out, and the longer sidecut length keeps them tracking. The rocker profile is also likely part of the secret sauce. They don’t have a ton of tip rocker length, which keeps them responsive when initiating turns, but then the nearly symmetrical tail rocker length makes them easy to release, in spite of a less tapered shape.
I haven’t taken my BO118s out this year, but I do love them as my resort powder ski.
And yes, they are amazing in deep chop. But they are pretty damn fun in actual pow too, even mounted - 1cm from recommended.
Old video has me jonesing for another inbounds pow day…
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WvMVwi7h2rQ&t=4s
I’m on the 186cm.
Huge tuning nerd so mine were stone ground flat as they were base high and then hand tuned with a sharp tip/tail 1/3 tune with no detuning f course. Snow was just bad that one day on mine and great the rest of the trip.
Hit my edges on al my skis daily and carry stones in my coat for on hill damage.
No, like what's your height and weight, if you don't mind sharing.
Good info DGamms, you turned me on to the BC120, BO118 just seems like that man version of that.
6’2”/175lbs
Nice, thanks!
I still own both!Quote:
Originally Posted by JRainey
BO118 is my inbounds pow ski.
BC120 is my touring pow ski.
For my preferences, they are just about perfect in those slots.
And I’m 5’ 9”, 155lbs. 186 BO and 184 BC, each mounted -1cm from rec
If anyone is lighter and Canadian, Sportchek has the 176cm Blackops 118 swamps on for $309 Canadian and think you might be able to add the 10% off when you add yourself to the mailing list on your first purchase deal.
Just copped a pair of 186 Swamps.
I conveniently stumbled upon a Rossi team rider around the block, I told him I want his SF110 191s when he's done with them too. Also need to ask if he got those pink 98s.
I just couldn't resist and mounted them on the line, but in my defense, I used the rear part of the line indent (-2mm).
Thanks for the heads up on base bevel in the rocker, I did have to add that. But I didn't mess with the Sender Frees and it wasn't a problem. Detuned the very tip, where the black tip spacer starts. Not opposed to going deeper, but will wait.
Missed the slight bit of pow we got last night, but might try for some spring rebaked cleanup testing for tomorrow. We'll see if this hype can be trusted...
Just had a trip to Colorado, skied the i70 resorts (Abasin, Copper, Vail, Beaver Creek). Brought both my Line Blade Optic 96 and Blackops 118's. Almost started ditching the blade optics entirely just to ski the blackops. I love how the ski feels, all rubbery and I can easily put it on edge. The width doesn't bother me since my ankles are very flexible. I love these things on groomers, love them in chop and pow. I can hardly feel the weight, even though I'm 145lbs 5'10. Still haven't checked to see if the bases are flat (probably edge high). I'm going to mont tremblant next week to tag along with some relatives, I might end up skiing the blackops 118 even if there is no snow because of how much I enjoy them. I enjoy them more without poles.
Anyone know of skinnier skis that feel like the black ops 118? Specifically the rubbery dense sensation, I'm starting to hate the tips and tails on the blade optics.
Am I the only person who thinks base high is a good thing?Quote:
Originally Posted by noslow
It's basically a spooned ski.
I had an old pair of blue house maestro that were base high by about 1mm and they were magic.
The replacement pair I bought were flat and lacked that magic.
YMMV.
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It’s like skiing on marbles on groomed and then incredibly unstable in variable conditions. Constantly trying to adjust your stance to try and get Centered if it’s bad enough. Just the tips/tails aren’t too bad but horrible when it’s severe underfoot.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shorty_J
Ok, these skis are crazy.
Gave them the real good test by showing up a day late to a spring powder day. I was a little tired cuz I have 3 young kids and had a bad nights sleep. Skied hot and cold pow, fresh and hard avi debris, and bed surface with a breakable crust. SF110 would have been the ski of choice if I wasn't jonesing to try the BO.
Cold pow where I was floating off the bottom was interesting, that "sharp/loose" shit blister talked about. Bent Chetlers (184) ski more like hoji skis than not when it comes to alpine pow, and these are different. Much more carving potential if I wanted it. Similar to the SF110, but stronger with the extra surface area. Less drifty than BC, but can still feather off the carve. I kinda like it though, but really 6 of one, half-dozen of another.
Wet pow, no real problems, you feel those big tips, so I felt the power of the ski, but I also like that. I've been looking for "more ski" than the BC, I want to put in effort. Bents are just stupid easy to ski. EHP would have been the best ski for the hot pow, but blackops was killing it. (EHPs do weight 2400g though)
But when I was crossing wet slide avi debris, it was almost comical how little of that was transmitted to my body. Almost unbelievable. If I tried to make turns down it, think the magic might have died. Same stable feeling in foot deep, wet, tracked crud. Now which ski is stupid easy?
Cold snow where I was feeling the base, amazing! This is where the SF110 (184) impressed me the most, and these were better. Very steep sections, very catchy snow under the pow, no big deal. Love the "line" mount point for this shit. When I need to do quick "steep skier" turns they whipped around easy.
Frozen avi debris runouts, smooth, but I was going straight.
I did ski one section with light avi debris from the storm that got some fresh on top. It was like pure powder, and no one else was even trying to make tracks down it.
Mount: On the line: -2.5 from TC. Loved it. Seemed like plenty of tip, no problems with the tail. I could pop off the tail better than the SF110, a few more cms of camber back there with the longer length and more forward mount point. I might not like the mount point come super deep pow day, but overall it's similar to the BC120 which I skied happily for years, so I think I'll be fine.
Airs: Shits are heavy. I did do some 180s on some pow rollers and windlips and could turn around easily even in hot pow. Stompy though, I didn't go so big cuz I was tired, but they felt nice on touchdown.
Flex: At 5'8" 170lbs these are about the most perfect flex I could imagine. No flopping, but you can run them into anything and you feel the rebound. I would say decently poppy. SF110 is more springy though, except for the ollie factor (BO wins).
Tune: I think mine are base high because they were really drifting and then catchy on icy flat groomers. Once I got on steep pitches and high edge angles it wasn't a problem and they charge the slush. On flat groomed sections they feel like cumbersome big skis (go figure).
The only they were a hand full was in the forest on sticky goo covered avi debris. No swiveling possible, low angle, making jump turns a chore, but it's to be expected.
I think I've found the new pow ski. In the last month I tried the 192 BC 120 and the 191 Reckoner 122, but both felt planky in the middle for my weight. These are bigger and badder than the 184 BC120 (duh), that's what I wanted. I should have skipped the other two, and gone straight to BO, because the SF110 is what got me reconsidering my pow ski options. But I just needed to try the 190 lengths to know they weren't for me.
Thanks for all the good info, and my wife is happy to know that I won't buy any more skis.... for now.
Now I have a fitness goal for the off-season so I can be strong enough to do spins on these, cuz right now a 360 seems borderline terrifying. Maybe I just need to take then into the park.
Glad they lived up to the hype. ;)
I recommend taking a gummy with you and doing some passes along the rockered sections of the ski, especially the tail. That took just enough "bite" out of the tails and loosened the ski up a bit more to my liking. As a few have said previously, the BO118 construction is the secret sauce but it comes at a price...that weight. I like it better than the 110 in challenging conditions, but the 110 is easier to manage. Hard to complain about having both in the quiver though since they handle those soft days so well.
Just had another great day on my Blackops 118 in Revelstoke today. Just an inch or two of fresh but warmer temps so knew it would be heavy by noon. They killed it on the firmer morning groomers and feasted on the heavy crud in the afternoon. Did lots of trees and bumps today and never noticed the weight even at -2.5cm back from rec.
Did almost 40k vert and wasn’t spent at the end of the day at all.
Yeah, I feel like they are less taxing than lighter skis, because I could relax and lean into my boots. A consistent ride takes way less energy in rough conditions. Skiing powder takes less energy than skiing crud, so if crud feels more like powder...
Exactly! What’s surprising is how easy it is in bumps with its forgiving flex pattern.Quote:
Originally Posted by JRainey
Just grabbed a set of 182cm Blackops 98 on an insane deal that I’ll maybe use as my daily driver on trips out West. A bit lighter and more forgiving than my 21 Faction CT skis near their width. Took my scale to ASOGEAR/Corbetts as they had 20 pairs of 182cm in stock in case there were large weight differences like the BO 118.
Most pairs were just over 4.0 kg but found 2 pairs that were heavier and grabbed a set just under 4.2kg.
Had them ground flat(bit edge high) before mounting at -1.5cm/6.5cm total back. Hand tuned after and factory tune was not awful for a change from Ross. Just put storage wax on them as I won’t be skiing them till next season but think I’ll like them.
Got one "real" powder day on the BO118.
These are the greatest skis ever invented! (In my semi-limited knowledge).
Spring pow day, with either wet snow, breakable crust, or non-breakable crust under 12" of cold fluff, depending on the elevation. Some spots skied as if bottomless.
The "suspension" aspect of these skis doesn't apply if you hit an ice chunk directly under footer (still sucks), but the planted feel on a hard base is really nice. It allows you to not back off and push through into what might be breakable crust (with a bit more give). Skiing and landing forward on these really unlocks some magical power.
The tip camber/rocker transition on this ski is a bit interesting. I feel like there's a more aggressively curved camber on the front vs the rear. So to my eyes that reduces the tip rocker, even if they maybe be identical while decambered. Like a down-arcing jaw that eats what comes it's way.
Also, these are soft in the middle in a very unique way. They don't feel too soft while skiing fast, but on cat tracks I could load up the tails, and basically sit in a wheelie. The way the skis curved all the way through the binding area was something I've only read about soft park skis doing, but never experienced (I skied stiff park skis, duh).
This comes in handy in very tight areas and quick transitions, like forest tracks. I could easily bend the ski to get the tips up when needed, and they became hyper maneuverable in places they where it made no sense. My first day out I was tired and hadn't yet discovered this trait.
Which brings me to the mount point. I went on the line (-2.5 TC), which has it's advantages and disadvantages.
In general, I'd rather be as far forward as possible without bogging down. If we say the BC120 and the B118 have the same mount point, then the BC120 floats a little bit better because the tail is narrower. But in a foot of pow I'd say I'm more than satisfied. If the tips did go under, there wasn't much drag, or any. I like to ski on my toes, but don't need to pressure the tips. The backseat is not a place I spend much time. The steeper the terrain the less float becomes an issue, so it's just the meadow skipping then.
I could see being happy -4 or -5 from TC, but at this point I'm not motivated to change. I'm loving the balanced feel. When I need to get the tips up, the ski responds well to me leaning back. That's really all I need. If I need to do hippy porpoise turns when it's deep and flat, this ski will allow it. Not all skis will, without serious effort.
The top end on these in good conditions is really amazing. The ski flex is available, but they don't feel soft while skiing. Looking back up at my tracks, I could see my turns were more "finished" than they usually are. So in the carve/slarve spectrum, they lean a little more towards carve, I think. But I really enjoy it, and I never felt like they were about to "finish" me right onto my head if I leaned back.
"Snap" with these is relative term as they do feel like jello, but the pop off jumps, bumps and troughs is real and available when you want to use it.
These skis will get pulled out for more than just powder days. The SF110 is a great cleanup ski, but these are a little more special... and mellow. The weight, outside of spins, is a complete non issue.
I did get some 180s, and even rode one out "in the backseat" which should have been disaster, but the fat tails just bogged for a second and pull back to the top.
I'll maybe get them base ground and a little more detune in the tips, but nothing is really bothering me in an extreme way.
Real Question: Do the BO98 have a similar flex pattern? Or are they much stiffer? If they flex like the BO118, they are in my future. If not, I might try something funky like that new Armada Kimbo.
186 BO 118s are one of my favorite skis of all time.
I don't even think about On3p Billy Goats anymore, not even 2014s. BO118s do everything all the BGs did for me (loosey goosey, but straight down the fall line, plow over anything) and then some (except not quite as chargey as 191 BGs, but close). They basically took over my 190 Wildcat quiver spot too, because they are so versatile. I do wish they were longer, but it is what it is. They charge fairly hard and can be driven well for such a short, center mounted ski.
How are the 2025 Sender Free 118s? Looks like more air tip going on, did that ruin any of the magic?
Forgot to post that Blister Review posted a flash review on the new Sender Free 118. They confirmed that basically the only difference is the graphics and the rubber sheets starting lower in the tips/tails to show off the AirTips(which sound like they have been there for years but totally covered with that rubber sheet before).
They didn’t add the metal sheet underfoot like I assumed they would like in the SF 110 and instead are keeping the ABS like in the Swamps/Tatums.
Blister posted weights of their SF 118 and they averaged about 2495gr(2457 & 2533gr) with a large 76gr difference between the set. Their original set of BO 118(before the swamps) weighed less, so probably more difference between random pairs within a year than between the years it looks like still.
So the SF 118 is a Blackops 118 with a different top sheet with easier to see through tips.
Man there are some good deals on BO118s right now. Must...resist....
You really shouldn’t. I think you’ll really like them and you’ll certainly get plenty of opportunities to use them (pretty sure you’re LCC?). I’ve debated getting a backup pair myself but talked myself off the ledge more than a few times. Certainly helps knowing the next version retains the same qualities when I eventually need a replacement pair.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dantheman
Aside: what’s the closest ski to the BO118s in a ~100 waist? Doesn’t seem like the BO98s are quite the same? Blade Optics?
I think I'd get along with the 118 *very* well. But, I just spent my life savings going to AK and picked up a pair of Sender 94 Ti's for spring skiing. Just can't justify it right now, especially since it looks like they'll be around for a while.
Haven't gotten to ski the Sender 94 yet. They were only $340 from BlueZone, smoking deal.
Yo it’s Vail. Can’t login to my last account.Quote:
Originally Posted by noslow
I owe it to you for my BO118 experience. Amazing skis. Thanks again. Thanks for the sparknotes on Blister SF118 flash review too. Sounds like I don’t have to worry going into the future. Still wanna hoard Swamps though.
BO118s are my favorite 115-120mm skis ever. Beating out Wildcats, Obsetheds, Bodacious, and custom Rx.
I find the BO118s more of a plow than everything I just listed except the 196 Bodacious. The 186 BO 118 is more confidence inspiring though, when plowing over chunder, compared to the 186 Bodacious.. just can’t “lean into” the BO118s quite as much with the centered mount.
However, because of that centered mount they are wayyy more jibby than any of the skis I listed. Probably the most jibby wide skis I’ve ever skied, more than K2 Shreditor 112 or On3p Kartels. BO118s are exactly what I wanted the Kartel 116s to be, with a magic dusting of Billy Goat performance sprinkled in.
I forget exactly where I mounted, although you might remember. I think I’m close to -3 or -3.5cm from true center. I have no issues in powder, they are my go-to powder skis. I’m going to sell my ARG IIs because they perform similarly (neither can be leaned into super hard like a bigger, directional ski), like fall line rollerblades through the tightest trees (both can also straightline wide open terrain well) in any deep snow or deep chunder.
What are the best deals you’ve seen?Quote:
Originally Posted by Dantheman
Evo, L9, BC.com, and SkiEssentials all have the 186 for $550.
Places in Canada with the Blackops 118 at $569 CAN right now with free shipping within Canada. SportChek back up to $474 CAN but only have the 176cm in stock. Had them under $300 CAN a few weeks ago!
Was thinking of you a few times during the year wondering how you were liking then! Think you were about -1cm back from rec/-3.5cm total IIRC.Quote:
Originally Posted by forumskier
Was able to talk to multiple 192cm Blackops 98 owners over the season and all loved them. Was able to hand flex them in some shops too vs the 182cm and like Soothski tested, just a bit stiffer overall but still very playful tip/tail.
Actually brought my scale to Corbett’s and weighed their whole 182cm stock to grab the heaviest set for myself but won’t try them till next season. They have 3 pairs of 192cm remaining that I’m sure you could get an insane deal from my contact there. Let me know if you need his info again.
Damn. What places have the 186?Quote:
Originally Posted by noslow
BlueZone has the 176 for $519 and are running a sitewide 25% off sale that stacks. Brings it down to $390 with free shipping and they don't charge sales tax.