Fu*king Cyclists

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Originally Posted by Meadow Skipper

Problems arise because a fair number of both cyclists and drivers are serious assholes.

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Thread (should be) over.

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Originally Posted by TomCrac

True statement? Face palm. Doesn't matter what the law says? Double face palm.

Not trying to pick on you stfu, but, invariably, when there is a disagreement and it devolves in to who might be gay for one reason or another it involves you?

ps... Calling someone gay as a derogatory term is kind of out dated.

And before you get all defensive and huffy let me just say this, Go sit on a bag of dicks and I know you are, but what am I.

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So referring to a comment about dudes sucking dicks as being "gay" is a pejorative now? What-eva girlfriend.

Keep digging, you're not to the bottom yet :biggrin:

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Originally Posted by ml242

We have made extreme concessions to automobiles for 100 years.

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That statement reeks of entitlement... unfounded entitlement.

Bikes were NEVER the primary user of roadways. They were always the 3rd tier minority behind horse/pedestrian and then motor/pedestrian.

Automobiles predate bicycles by a century if you go by prototypes, but if we go by machines we would recognize today, the pedal-bicycle was invented in 1860s and the gasoline powered automobile came along about 20 years later.

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two riders register more clearly as objects to a moving vehicle than a single cyclist.

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So if traffic obstruction is for visibility/safety purposes, it sounds like we need a public safety law mandating reflective fluorescent clothing... might interfere with everyone who wants to look like they are spancered-like-Lance... I mean Landis... I mean... who is the current roadie hero who has yet to get caught doping?

Also, we should mandate daytime running lights for bikes (just like new cars and motorcycles have for years).

And let's crack down on drinking and biking!

And let's crack down on bikers who don't wear helmets!

Don't like those ideas? Then stop pretending this is about safety.

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Originally Posted by BigDaddy

Just this morning on my 1 mile drive to the dog park...

This is a state highway:

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Driving one mile?
Were you moving while you snapped those photos?

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Originally Posted by BigDaddy

Yeah admittedly, it's exactly as you describe. But it's the first stretch of open road after a mile or so of stop and go traffic, waiting for pedestrians/tourists to cross ten times. I can't tell you how many times I've seen cars just mat it and hit 50 by the time they pass my house. Occasionally you get the jr BMW driver go up to 70.

I just wanted to illustrate my point of dealing with this sort of bike path mentality on a daily basis. Barely out of my driveway and there it is. I could film a drivers Ed movie if I felt like wasting my time. It is a problem in our town and I drive accordingly, but I still find them fucking obnoxious and annoying. That doesn't mean I don't respect them and their right to enjoy the day, either... Just please ride sensibly and stay safe.

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Well, it sounds like the motorists who are the problem there and the solution is some enforcement. I'd be ticked off if people were doing 20-35mph over the speed limit in front of my house.

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Originally Posted by TomCrac

You stop a lot of times in roundabouts? Because you are going a bit slower?

Brain hurts.

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Not in so much as before I can safely enter. Aleve your brain of all that over-thinking.

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Originally Posted by Summit

Well, it sounds like the motorists who are the problem there and the solution is some enforcement. I'd be ticked off if people were doing 20-35mph over the speed limit in front of my house.

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Ticked off? I get fucking livid. I live on a private dirt road that cuts thru from a main road a mile right to the ocean and has a 15mph speed limit with no trespassing signs. Well 15 doesn't mean 50 and you've got all these fuckers speeding thru there with no respect at all.

I huck balls at cars, put big rocks in the road, drag trees and branches, chase after cars with my chainsaw or whatever i might have in my meat hooks at the time. Oh ya good times. Fuck em.

It's a great fantasy, but I don't want to see someone hurt. I'd feel like a real ass if I caused someone to hit a tree and die. Cops are pretty good about keeping an eye on things, so I prefer to let them handle that.

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Originally Posted by Summit

Well, it sounds like the motorists who are the problem there and the solution is some enforcement. I'd be ticked off if people were doing 20-35mph over the speed limit in front of my house.

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They frequently set up across the street from my house and fill the coffers. At least 3-4 times a month. I feel like I have body guards.

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Originally Posted by acinpdx

I think it's specious to say that drivers have more concern for the lives of cyclists than the cyclists do themselves. And, of course, no one wants to hit a cyclist.

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Specious, huh? Every day we drive around and see cyclists engage in behavior that would be predictably deadly were cars not rounding every corner expecting to see a bicycle. If bicyclists actually feared for their lives, they wouldn't do things like riding side by side, 30 mph below the speed limit, around blind corners. But they do... And those who do are essentially saying to the cars around them, "I dare you to hit me." The cyclists are creating the risk, and expecting the driver of the car to ensure that risk is avoided.

You willfully fail to see that bikes are a part of traffic. It's not up to you. They are. Your perception of cyclists' intent has zero to do with the issue.

The scenario you describe is legal, and the responsibility for rounding a corner lies with the individual driver. If the driver can't react to conditions, he is driving beyond his abilities.

Not just abilities. Responsibility.

Just like in skiing, the rule of thumb is that the downhill skier has the right of way.
If you can't stop whenever you need to, you own some of the problem.

Unless you are on a closed course, you gotta deal.

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Originally Posted by acinpdx

You willfully fail to see that bikes are a part of traffic. It's not up to you. They are. Your perception of cyclists' intent has zero to do with the issue.

The scenario you describe is legal, and the responsibility for rounding a corner lies with the individual driver. If the driver can't react to conditions, he is driving beyond his abilities.

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Just like skiers that go mach loony and blame the slow ass newby for erratically zigging and zagging all over and across the slope below them, for causing the ski accident.

Cyclists listening to music is the worst. So dangerous. I like to be able hear what's going on or coming up behind me. Road cycling with earbuds blasting=super stoopid.

Oops TomCrac beat me to it.

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Originally Posted by Summit

That statement reeks of entitlement... unfounded entitlement.

Bikes were NEVER the primary user of roadways. They were always the 3rd tier minority behind horse/pedestrian and then motor/pedestrian.

Automobiles predate bicycles by a century if you go by prototypes, but if we go by machines we would recognize today, the pedal-bicycle was invented in 1860s and the gasoline powered automobile came along about 20 years later.



So if traffic obstruction is for visibility/safety purposes, it sounds like we need a public safety law mandating reflective fluorescent clothing... might interfere with everyone who wants to look like they are spancered-like-Lance... I mean Landis... I mean... who is the current roadie hero who has yet to get caught doping?

Also, we should mandate daytime running lights for bikes (just like new cars and motorcycles have for years).

And let's crack down on drinking and biking!

And let's crack down on bikers who don't wear helmets!

Don't like those ideas? Then stop pretending this is about safety.

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Unfounded entitlement? Why do you think mass transit sucks in this country. What about the real estate and public space dedicated to storing people's stupid cars? Cars should not be the only way to get around in this country but we've subsidized and legislated and criminalized and stigmatized every other method. Read this thread.

Furthermore, get off your smug horse. I'm not a spandex guy, my interest is in getting from place to place efficiently. As stated, there have been multiple studies that showed that helmets are not of a benefit to riders. Cars drive closer to cyclists wearing them. In addition they are only particularly useful for falling at relatively slow speeds from a bike, not getting crushed at 35mph where they make little difference. Then, if you really cared, motorists should also be required to wear them since they to suffer head injuries at very high rates in accidents.

You are doing a perverse form of victim blaming as if every cyclist was asking for it. Oh my god, two abreast, mow them down!!! Most of the time I've seen cyclists get hit locally, in nyc, where I've been talking about, drivers are not charged with anything because cops do not care. These were not riders making a show of their rights, but people going back and forth to work. How does that fit into your drunk cyclist worldview? Do you not care? Even when drivers break inadvertently break a law and then aren't charged because it was an "accident"?

You seem to have zero value for a single human life if changing anything would inconvenience you so go fuck yourself i guess.

I met my favorite type of cyclist today on the Beltline trail:

Full spandex bottoms, t shirt, serious looking road bike, going Mach looney down a wide but crowded path yelling and cussing his ass off to "GET TO THE RIGHT, GET TO THE LEFT!", weaving all over the place. The kicker though was his Bluetooth jawbone speaker fastened to his handlebars blasting some kind of techno shit.

I yelled after him if he posts on TGR but he was long gone. I would have loved his perspective on this thread.

Come on guys. Page 15 by Monday, we can do this.

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Originally Posted by acinpdx

You willfully fail to see that bikes are a part of traffic. It's not up to you. They are. Your perception of cyclists' intent has zero to do with the issue.

The scenario you describe is legal, and the responsibility for rounding a corner lies with the individual driver. If the driver can't react to conditions, he is driving beyond his abilities.

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As a matter of fact, it's generally not legal for bicycles to ride side by side obstructing traffic, nor is is legal (or advisable) for anyone in any vehicle to obstruct traffic by driving 5 mph in a 45 mph zone. If you don't believe me, consider what would happen if you were bombing down some mountain road at 45 mph on your bike and came around a blind corner to find a car doing 5 mph. That'd be totally legal and reasonable, right?

It is legal to ride two up in 39 states

If I'm bombing a hill, it is MY responsibility to not hit stuff

Sir Richard Branson just wrecked the shit out of himself on Virgin Gorda heading down a steep hill towards Levericks Bay.

Got med-flighted to Miami.

No clue if he was riding two abreast.

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Originally Posted by acinpdx

It is legal to ride two up in 39 states

If I'm bombing a hill, it is MY responsibility to not hit stuff

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Even cars have to pull over when blocking multiple vehicles from passing on mountain roads.

Next time I pass a bike going up hill, I'll slow down to 1 mph and wait for the well reasoned acceptance of my right to travel at the rate of speed I'm comfortable with.

Whatever jackassery you pull, just make sure you don't check if it's legal first. I hear you can get off if you're unaware of the local laws.

Ignorance of the law is no excuse my man.

Can we get back to why are bikers such fucking weasels? They're just awful human beings, in spandex, which makes it even worse. Why is that?

I'll wait for STFU to confirm...he seems to be up on the law

I need to get on my bike more. True story.

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Originally Posted by iceman

Can we get back to why are bikers such fucking weasels? They're just awful human beings, in spandex, which makes it even worse. Why is that?

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some of us bike in cutoffs, jeans if you will. You just happen to live in a place full of awful people, whose luxury sport of choice these days is road biking.

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Originally Posted by acinpdx

Whatever jackassery you pull, just make sure you don't check if it's legal first. I hear you can get off if you're unaware of the local laws.

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Most roads don't have minimum speed limits. Surely, the cyclists will understand that I can only drive uphill if I do so at 1 mph while weaving all over the road.

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Originally Posted by stfu&gbtw

Most roads don't have minimum speed limits. Surely, the cyclists will understand that I can only drive uphill if I do so at 1 mph while weaving all over the road.

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Perhaps they might even pass you?

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Originally Posted by Summit

So if traffic obstruction is for visibility/safety purposes, it sounds like we need a public safety law mandating reflective fluorescent clothing...

Also, we should mandate daytime running lights for bikes (just like new cars and motorcycles have for years).

And let's crack down on drinking and biking!

And let's crack down on bikers who don't wear helmets!

Don't like those ideas? Then stop pretending this is about safety.

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Good ideas and all being implemented voluntarily by people who value their own safety and to whatever degree they deem necessary. Dozen years ago Cannondale advocated flashing lights whether legal or not. Do you think the people whose asses are on the line have been waiting for you to suggest such things?

The problem isn't that most people are assholes, it's that cyclists have no way to assess who's who so they have to expect the worst 10% of drivers every time. That leaves about 65% of drivers (who aren't in the worst 10% but never ride) wondering what's going on. As per the usual, a vocal chunk of these imagine they know why everyone else acts as they do and finds an excuse, no matter how illogical, to rage at the "other" who does (or says or thinks) something they don't like. Stay classy San Diego.

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Originally Posted by acinpdx

Perhaps they might even pass you?

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Only if they can do so safely in a legal passing zone of course. I have the same right to the road as they do, and they don't have the right to put other people's lives in danger just because they're in a hurry.

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Originally Posted by stfu&gbtw

The problem is that, despite all their claims that motor vehicles are out to kill them, cyclists know that 99.999% of all people would hit a tree before they'd hit a cyclist, and they exploit that to use the roads in unreasonable ways. No cyclist who actually feared for his life would ever fail to obey simple traffic rules like riding single file or stopping at red lights and stop signs. The three assholes I passed last week who decided to take their siesta in the road as opposed to the 12' of shoulder just to their right were simply exploiting their ability obstruct the road and impede traffic out of other people's concern for their safety. Not only were they not fearing for their own safety, they were using their complete confidence in the average driver's intention to not hit them as a social weapon.

I don't personally know anyone who thinks bikes shouldn't be allowed on roads. But everyone I know gets pissed off when their concern for another person is taken advantage of.

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Very well said, although only applicable to some cyclists (the ones we notice--we don't notice the ones riding single on the right side of the road and slowing and checking for other traffic before going through a stop sign).

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Originally Posted by jono

The problem isn't that most people are assholes, it's that cyclists have no way to assess who's who so they have to expect the worst 10% of drivers every time. That leaves about 65% of drivers (who aren't in the worst 10% but never ride) wondering what's going on. As per the usual, a vocal chunk of these imagine they know why everyone else acts as they do and finds an excuse, no matter how illogical, to rage at the "other" who does (or says or thinks) something they don't like. Stay classy San Diego.

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A good point also. Although 65 + 10 doesn't equal 100.

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Originally Posted by old goat

A good point also. Although 65 + 10 doesn't equal 100.

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Some drivers are also (or have been) cyclists.

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Originally Posted by stfu&gbtw

Only if they can do so safely in a legal passing zone of course. I have the same right to the road as they do, and they don't have the right to put other people's lives in danger just because they're in a hurry.

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It's the special entitlement that bugs me.

Bottom of my hill is Rock Creek Park in DC. The road upstream from the intersection is closed off on weekends for biking, fruitbooting, jogging, etc. The intersection has a stop sign for the riders and walkers, NOT the car traffic coming down my street. I had the right of way and drove through that intersection when some 60something in spandex decided that the sign didn't apply to him and busted through the stop. I slammed on my brakes and didn't get within 10 feet of him. He proceeds to leave his bike on the ground right in front of my car and walks to my door to yell at me, telling me he's a lawyer and that I'm a dangerous driver and he will make sure I lose my license. His little Peloton catches up to him and joins the chorus.

I actually had to pick up my kid who was waiting at a street corner or I would have obliged the retard and waited for the cops. As it was I got out, moved his bike, got in, and drove off while these dickheads were yelling and taking selfies with my plate.

This happened 2 weeks ago, and no cops have knocked on my door. My wife rides road bikes for fun/exercise and in Centuries. Fuck cyclists like that asshole.

Did you flip them off palm out as you drove off?

Always blame road bikers....fucking idiots...

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Originally Posted by ml242

Also, the idea that riding two abreast makes cyclists less safe is not true.

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Maybe you're talking extra wide roads, but around me, two abreast takes up half the road (as seen in my picture) and creates potential for a head on collision while trying to avoid the cyclist. It definitely does quite the opposite and makes things much more dangerous.

I saw a guy staggering along a road around 5:30 pm last week and thought he looked drunk. Just before I got to him he swung around throwing his thumb out and came really close to falling into the roadway. Swerved around him and left him to his walk.

back to the bike discussion.....

I haven't read the last 10 pages or so. Did I miss anything important? :biggrin:

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Originally Posted by strawjack

I haven't read the last 10 pages or so. Did I miss anything important? :biggrin:

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Several people took you up on your request for a bike-off, but you pussied out.

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Originally Posted by Sirshredalot

Several people took you up on your request for a bike-off, but you pussied out.

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Ha!

What a great weekend for riding!