http://galibierdesign.com/images/oth...tCrashMuch.jpg
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OK ... I just picked up the last pair of Black Vipecs at the Bent Gate at 40% off. The box is labeled 108 (brakes) and they are true to this dimension. I quickly slid an assembled heel piece over an Atomic Automatic 109 and the brakes cleared easily (I'd guess they'd be good for 110 and maybe 112, but certainly not my Praxis GPOs (116). This is pretty nutty, in light of hhtele's experiences above. Maybe they they had a "whoops" experience at the warehouse and corrected it mid-season.
[edit: April 29th] hhtele has it right. While fully deployed, the 108 brakes clear these 109 waisted skis easily, but while mounted, they don't spread out quickly enough to clear the ski as they deploy. As they spread out during deployment, they hit the top surface of the ski, and at that point, they're barely 100mm wide.
One quick question: Those toe lever inserts (the ones offered in optional colors). I received a spare pair of blacks in the bag. I recall reading that there are various sizes to accommodate different boot sole shapes/heights. Do I remember correctly? Should they come with only one extra set?
A couple of observations upon an initial handling ...
- All of the instructions I found on the web for installing the brakes are obtuse at best. Maybe it's me, but I fiddled with them for some 15 minutes after growing frustrated with the dearth of shop manual documentation on the web. About the time I had an "aha" moment, I found a series of photos Lou published on the original Vipec (brake installation is the same). It's still a bit obtuse, but with a bit of fiddling and the supporting photos (minimal text) I got there. https://www.wildsnow.com/11228/mounting-adjustment-fritschi-vipec/
- The toe piece mounting holes are counterbored instead of countersunk. I've been bitching about Dynafit using countersinks forever. Given the fact that a tech binding mount benefits from some finagling of the toepiece, a countersink makes absolutely no sense. It's a small thing, but indicative of the fact that the engineers at Fritschi are thinking about the little things, although I consider this to be a big deal - in the sense that aligning a tech binding is critical to best performance.
- The toe pin adjustment screw. I was a bit concerned about this, in light of all of the Loc-tite comments. Well, the engineers at Fritschi did it again. The adjustable pin on the toe piece uses a straight-slotted screw, and a spring engages with the slot so it can't rotate. Nice ... I'm really surprised no one mentioned this before.
Enough of this rambling. I now get to decide which of my sub 109mm skis these get mounted on. If only for Springtime testing.
Cheers,
Thom
Picked up a pair of the blacks also at 40% off and very stoked on the binding. Really thought I would always go Dynafit, but they are changing things so much-mount pattern etc. no reason to stick with them. Black ticked off the most boxes for me and nice to see the heavy discounts in the AT world.
Bent Gate didn't make it clear on their website, and the Black display model was hidden behind a pair of White ones.
I had to ask the salesman a pointed question to find the Black ones. Also, after his first trip back from the stock room, he returned with White Vipecs (we had been conversing quite a bit about this). It's almost as if they're under instructions to try to clear out the Whites (at the same price as the Blacks) ... either that, or he was trying to hoard them for himself or a buddy ;-) I was about to order from either Sport-Conrad or Telemark-Pyrenees, until I sauntered in there today.
Are the bindings supposed to come with only one spare set of black inserts for the toe lever? I'm searching for instructions on this.
Best I can tell, I'm good, 'coz Black is gen3 (see LeeLau's post in this thread, from early Feb.). As I understand it, the generations are as follows:
Gen 1: First year - toe pin problem (no LocTite applied) & miscl. other teething problems: icing, difficult entry, etc.
Gen 2: Toe pin problem fixed (other stuff corrected too?)
Gen 3: Black (easier entry, icing fixed, toe wing entry not dependent on RV, probably other stuff as well)
Cheers,
Thom
Local shop Allspeed-pretty sure it was the last set. Hard to mix up the black with the earlier models due to the color.
Thom are you going to mount these yourself? I have done dynafits a number of times, but these seem different. Would be interested in any thoughts.
Mine also had just one pair of extra inserts and I too had seen these come in sizes.
Has anyone seen a deal for Ion's lately?
In store the Kingpins were also 40% off for both brake sizes. May be worth a call for anyone looking. Sorry no Ions.
http://store.allspeed.com/marker-kin...-binding-2016/
Yes, also the little button (black Vipecs) as opposed to the "wire" (white ones) on the toe's base plate.
I need to look at the difference between the two toe lever inserts.
Looks like a straight-forward mount. I'll probably do a quick 2x4 mount to test where the heel locates on the track (i.e. does it land in the middle of its adjustment range).
...Thom
I have a pair that's mounted on some 178 carbon Megawatts on gear swap. The only reason I'm selling them is 'coz of lack of interchangeable brakes (need something for an anticipated buy of 102 wide skis), and to sweeten the deal on the skis. Dunno if this works for you (price police me if you think they're out of line), but I had to mention it - super light use.
... Thom
Today at Backcountry, Vipec black/TUV/3rd gen are 30% off + extra 20% with 2 eligible items + 10% AJ cashback...
Guess the benefit of backcountry skiing becoming so popular is that we are now seeing the deep spring discounts like the rest of the industry.
On the topic of the confusing labeling of brake widths, I added the following edit to my April 14th post:
hhtele has it right. While fully deployed, the 108 brakes clear these 109 waisted skis easily, but while mounted, they don't spread out quickly enough to clear the ski as they deploy. As they spread out during deployment, they hit the top surface of the ski, and at that point, they're barely 100mm wide.
The good news is that you can change brakes in these bindings. One has to wonder if this is a new profit model for BD - to increase aftermarket brake sales :rolleyes:
Cheers,
Thom
I upgraded from the white to black this season and have about 3 months on the black version. This weekend while skiing laps on Shasta, I went to skin up for lap 2 and as I went to step into the binding discovered the pin was gone from one of the toe pieces.
Nothing catastrophic and I had a loaner pair of skis to finish the day, but WTF? I thought this issue was fixed. This may be the final straw for me and Vipecs, too bad cause I do like how they ski.
Anyone else see this as an issue still? Yes, it's my fault for not checking pin tightness and discovered the other to be loose as well...
I'm wondering if they made an in-flight change in the Blacks. I'll snap a photo of mine tonight. I was impressed that (for the adjustable pin), they use a straight slot screw (which I normally don't like). A spring steel engages with the screw slot to keep it from rotating and either losing adjustment or worse, falling out.
Cheers,
Thom
Here's a close-up photo of the retainer clip they designed for the adjustable toe pin. I can't envision a screw loosening with this implementation. I was mightily impressed with the Fritschi engineers' solution to the problem. No more "you didn't use Loctite" crap.
With all of the comments about loosening over the past 12 months, I'm surprised no one mentioned it before this. Maybe it was a mid model year enhancement and I got lucky?
http://galibierdesign.com/images/oth...ner_Detail.jpg
Cheers,
Thom
My theory:
If the nut loosens, there will be slop in the pin and the pin can strip. Thats how it fell out?
Its important to keep slop in check by making sure the nut stays tight.
Perhaps getting the right pin width for your tech fittings can reduce the probability and rate of slop development?
Interesting, something we'll all no doubt watch, moving forward.
After the pair of "108's" I picked up were barely good for 100's, I ordered and received a pair of "XXL's" from Bckcountry.com.
Guess what? Same size brake.
I'm going to call Black Diamond to get resolution. I can imagine the degree of grief this has caused their retailers, and the way I look at it, this is the reason an importer/distributor gets a cut - to resolve problems.
I could just bend the brakes, but at that this point, I don't want to do so on principle.
... Thom
The photo almost says it all about the overlap between the Salomon Warden Heel and the Vipec-12. One point of clarification however ... The +2.5mm mount for the Vipec is not a typo. It's not +2.5cm.
I mounted the toe on the line for BSL=302, and this nets out to +2.5mm for a 297 BSL (my Maestrales). I then inserted my 297 Maestrale and located the end of the heel.
The templates for the Vipec are the most poorly documented I've seen to date. Dawson's is really close, but no cigar [edit - see below, download 2016 template]. The Powder Guide template says "Not yet verified - use with caution" ... for good reason. I made my own template on my CAD software ... 'coz I could :D
I'm not the least bit shy as far as hole proximity. The Quiver Killers for the Wardens are stronger than the ski. It appears as if I can just about finagle a pair of inserts in there if the mood strikes.
http://galibierdesign.com/images/oth...el_Overlay.jpg
Cheers,
Thom
I asked BD to send me a template, and it worked perfectly.
I downloaded my template a while ago and noted that it has a 2014 date. It appears as if Lou corrected the error since then. On the 2016 version he slid the front pair of toe holes just a wee bit forward. As always, trust but verify (the 2016 version). I have not used this for a mount, since I now have my own template
One possibly useful note:
I measured the adjustment range on the heel track to be about 24mm.
If you position the edge of the boot heel (using a carpenter's square) so it's 18mm behind the front pair of heel holes, your mount will end up with the heel very close to the center of its adjustment range. Of course, if you're trying to accommodate two very different boots (like a TLT & a Maestrale), you may need to fiddle on a 2x4, but this is a good starting point for your experimentation.
Cheers,
Thom
I did a second mount last night and verified the 18mm heel offset. It places the boot very close to the center of the adjustment range.
As beautifully engineered as these bindings are, is how terribly documented they are. I was searching high and low for documentation on the interchangeable toe clips.
This video shows how the clip facilitates toe release in a forward fall scenario while in ski mode. The alternate clip alows different boot toe ("nose") shapes to engage the toe piece.
Scroll to point #3 at 1:30 ("Nose").
Cheers,
Thom
Wondering if any one has experience with the vipec crampon. Saw a short video showing putting it on/off and adjusting the depth. To be honest I am not too inspired by the video. Could you push in the clips when side hilling? Seems overly thought out-like the simple ones on Dynafit.
Looked around the net a bit this morning. Saw the listed weight on the crampons is 363g/pair!!!!!
Not sure what Fritschi was thinking with this. Due to toe design looks like stuck with their crampons if I want them for this binding.
I was wondering about choices as well. They do seem solid, at least.
Used them can't complain. They can be put on without taking the ski off but it's awkward.
Thanks for the report on their functionality. Wish the weight was not so high.
Not familiar with those. How do you find they function? Looks like there is a permanent lock mount. Unfortunately still on the heavy side
Thanks for pointing out an option
Is the new black version really that much better than white 2.0?
The mount stays in place, and weighs about an ounce each- less than the variation one might find on a pair of flat skis.
As far as the weight of the crampon compared to others? There is so little choice out there, I am not sure how much weight can be a factor. And, having used crampons I don't love (O1 tele and Dynafit with high heel lift), weight is fairly low on my list. In fact, when I went from brake-less radicals to Vipecs/brakes, I realized my weight/performance perspective had changed.
As far as function: I like a fixed crampon, I do use them with high heel lifts sometimes, and don't like the minimal engagement of my Dynafit crampons. I have a pair of Voille mounted under foot. I think I actually prefer them forward of the binding as I have dome with tele.
These guys are worth a look.
Their telemark options should really be called universal.
Thanks, really appreciate your input.
Funny I am coming off speed radicals too.
I I searched this thread and the Forum but couldn't find anything, but I have a pair of this year's carbon katanas, Can I mount the new black vipecs on those? I know they say marker only, however it sounds like people have successfully mounted plenty of other Tech bindings on there
Lame armchair response: Shouldn't be a problem. Don't know the ski, but assume it is flat. The Vipec screw pattern does not seem out of range of an average binding pattern and so should fit in the mounting area. I have read some Volkl's are thin so you or the shop may need to watch screw length and how this relates to the supplied screws I do not know. If you can't figure this out, take it to a shop you trust can. If it was properly mounted Volkl should stand behind their product even if it says Marker only.
wildsnow has something about that
seems that at least on the 14/15 vipecs, the heels would partially drilling into air
https://www.wildsnow.com/12762/volkl...strong-enough/
Yupp once again I am shown when I speak from the armchair with a beer I am an idiot.