GUNS!!!!!!!!

Mine was an impulse buy, i've been told there are better options then firedragon but mines fine. (Conversion barrels can be purchased directly from sig.) Don't expect to just drop it in though, expect to need some custom fitting, if you aren't comfortable doing this then expect to go to a gunsmith. If it's a different caliber, you will need to get a new spring to match. Also using a 9mm magazine in a 40 cal system has some minor flaws. after that, it works as advertised, My very first shot with it was a pinwheel.

I think he's the only guy who makes a .357sig barrel for a S&W Sigma .40, so trying to figure everything out before I decide to buy the gun or barrel. Think I will buy the whole mess and take it straight to a gunsmith to get barrel fitted and do the trigger work before it even comes out of the box.
Thanks for the input!

No I am not here to cunt up the thread. I just have a question for the gun nuts, and for the first time in a while, I am not trying to start shit. :wink: So, the local fly fishing guides around here have taken to carrying shotguns for bears, a la Alaska style. I usually have a .45 LC that I pack with me, simply for noise, but have been thinking for awhile about doing the whole shotgun route. Probably 12 gauge, I think my old 16 clay gun would be too small, and it is too nice to mess up converting. I would like a folding stock, short barrel, easy to sling across back, easy to swing forward and accurate enough that if I point it in the general direction, Mr. Griz gets a face full. Most guys around here alternate between buckshot and slugs: One round shot, one slug, one shot, etc. Good idea? The bears around here have been getting more and more aggressive, and I have heard stories, no bullshit, of people unloading a whole can of pepper spray, and the bear keeps coming. Any ideas? It's either bigger boom, or no fishing in the high country. Thanks.


Oh, and mandatory, guns are evil. :FIREdevil

Quote:

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Originally Posted by skibuminwyo

No I am not here to cunt up the thread. I just have a question for the gun nuts, and for the first time in a while, I am not trying to start shit. :wink: So, the local fly fishing guides around here have taken to carrying shotguns for bears, a la Alaska style. I usually have a .45 LC that I pack with me, simply for noise, but have been thinking for awhile about doing the whole shotgun route. Probably 12 gauge, I think my old 16 clay gun would be too small, and it is too nice to mess up converting. I would like a folding stock, short barrel, easy to sling across back, easy to swing forward and accurate enough that if I point it in the general direction, Mr. Griz gets a face full. Most guys around here alternate between buckshot and slugs: One round shot, one slug, one shot, etc. Good idea? The bears around here have been getting more and more aggressive, and I have heard stories, no bullshit, of people unloading a whole can of pepper spray, and the bear keeps coming. Any ideas? It's either bigger boom, or no fishing in the high country. Thanks.


Oh, and mandatory, guns are evil. :FIREdevil

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Sounds like a really good idea if the spray is not working. I would probably put the slug as the first shot just for a bit more accuracy (unless you are just going for the noise factor).

How short of a barrel are you wanting and why? Just asking because I don't know shit about grizzlies and how close they have to be before you determine they are being aggressive and not turning away. We just have black bears here and they generally run from noise.

I dunno, just something that is short enough to be able to be swung around on my back, so I can still cast. I think minimum here is 16 inches, but I could very well be wrong.

Check some local pawn shops. Sometimes you can find good deals there.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by skibuminwyo

I dunno, just something that is short enough to be able to be swung around on my back, so I can still cast. I think minimum here is 16 inches, but I could very well be wrong.

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Minimum barrel length on a shotgun is 18".

Currently you can pick up a cheap Mossburg pump with a folder for not much jack.

Here are some exotics that qualify as a short barreled shotgun (SBS) and require a $200 transfer tax.

http://serbu.com/top/superShorty.php
www.tromix.com click on the intro, then saiga shotguns, scroll down to S-17

http://serbu.com/top/super_shorty_870.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by skibuminwyo

No I am not here to cunt up the thread. I just have a question for the gun nuts, and for the first time in a while, I am not trying to start shit. :wink: So, the local fly fishing guides around here have taken to carrying shotguns for bears, a la Alaska style. I usually have a .45 LC that I pack with me, simply for noise, but have been thinking for awhile about doing the whole shotgun route. Probably 12 gauge, I think my old 16 clay gun would be too small, and it is too nice to mess up converting. I would like a folding stock, short barrel, easy to sling across back, easy to swing forward and accurate enough that if I point it in the general direction, Mr. Griz gets a face full. Most guys around here alternate between buckshot and slugs: One round shot, one slug, one shot, etc. Good idea? The bears around here have been getting more and more aggressive, and I have heard stories, no bullshit, of people unloading a whole can of pepper spray, and the bear keeps coming. Any ideas? It's either bigger boom, or no fishing in the high country. Thanks.


Oh, and mandatory, guns are evil. :FIREdevil

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After treeing a mother and three cubs along the Tseax, I decided go get my license for the same reason. My two choices based on price and quality were the Winchester Defender and a Remington 870 Express. And a full load of 00 buck. And pistol grip/folding stock combos are were available from the factory for these two, as well as extended mags. The neatest thing I found was a nylon "holster" that allowed the gun to be carried over the shoulder like a backpack, but with an open top for accesability.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by skibuminwyo

No I am not here to cunt up the thread. I just have a question for the gun nuts, and for the first time in a while, I am not trying to start shit. :wink: So, the local fly fishing guides around here have taken to carrying shotguns for bears, a la Alaska style. I usually have a .45 LC that I pack with me, simply for noise, but have been thinking for awhile about doing the whole shotgun route. Probably 12 gauge, I think my old 16 clay gun would be too small, and it is too nice to mess up converting. I would like a folding stock, short barrel, easy to sling across back, easy to swing forward and accurate enough that if I point it in the general direction, Mr. Griz gets a face full. Most guys around here alternate between buckshot and slugs: One round shot, one slug, one shot, etc. Good idea? The bears around here have been getting more and more aggressive, and I have heard stories, no bullshit, of people unloading a whole can of pepper spray, and the bear keeps coming. Any ideas? It's either bigger boom, or no fishing in the high country. Thanks.


Oh, and mandatory, guns are evil. :FIREdevil

---

Slugs are the only thing thats going to do shit against a grizzly in a shotty. I think 00 shot might penetrate 18", not enough.

The biggest problem with a shotty for bear defense is theres no great way of carrying it thst keeps it out of the way but lets you have it ready fast enough to matter.

I think a big ass revolver in 460 s/w would a much better tool since its lighter, and easier to draw and fire quickly, but its also more expensive especially the ammo, and takes a lot more practice o be effective with.

If you are going to get a shotty, I'd get a pistol grip, stocks are great, but not for
bear defense and being carried on a pack. I'd get an autoloader, not too short or else you wont be able to shoot fast/accurate enough, and unless it has a box magazine, you lose capacity as the barrel gets shorter since the mag tube has to as well. If you're going to go the nfa route and get an sbs, I'd go with a 14" barrel, that should still give you around 5 or 6 shots total, including one in the chamber and one on the little loading ramp, which will probably be as many as you're going to be able to get off anyways.

I used to carry guns when potentially around bears. Started out with the Mossberg Cruiser (500) 12 ga. w/00buck:
http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/e...9/100_0315.jpg
but it was too clumsy (at least for fishing and trailbuilding). Then I started carrying the Dan Wesson .44 mag:
http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/e...9/100_0309.jpg
but then I thought, "will this actually stop a bear or just really piss him off?", so I stopped carrying that as well. I mean - it's a huge handgun, but it's still just a handgun. Now I don't think too much about it. I'm much more worried about people than bears.

Thinking of putting a real stock on the Mossberg (the one with the shell holders in it) and the Dan is at the smith's right now getting a weaver base.

And for "emergency" situations, I personally don't like auto shotguns. Too much to go wrong.


Oh yeah - I have heard of guys carrying a flare gun for bears. They're light, small, cheap , non-lethal and supposedly scare the shit outta bears. Supposedly.

So would a Sig P250 be completely rediculous for a first handgun? I really am intrigued by the versatility of being able to shoot so many different calibers. Am I being naive?

Anyone, anyone? I respect the knowledge of the collective and am ready to pull the trigger (yes, pun intended).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jer

I mean - it's a huge handgun, but it's still just a handgun. Now I don't think too much about it. I'm much more worried about people than bears.

Thinking of putting a real stock on the Mossberg (the one with the shell holders in it) and the Dan is at the smith's right now getting a weaver base.

And for "emergency" situations, I personally don't like auto shotguns. Too much to go wrong.

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I'd say if it were an imminent attack, I'd rather have something to blast the bear with besides my fists.

not a gun, but i'll add one of these to the pile.

ZOMBIE GABE WANT SAIGA!

Don't waste your money on a sigma, (i had one and traded it in) there are plenty better pistols out there.

Works everytime. Good for breakfast too.

http://www.coyleracing94.com/images/...in_cage_03.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by GunPowder

Don't waste your money on a sigma, (i had one and traded it in) there are plenty better pistols out there.

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S&W Sigma's are a major POS. You can't give them away.

On the above shotty, I assume it has a folding stock with it??? Otherwise, beware.

Pick up an 18" Remington 870 in a 3" magnum, then add a Choate top folding stock for about $90.

Ken

Here's a link to a more traditional short barreled shotgun at a reasonable price. Factory Remington 870's.

http://www.sturmgewehr.com/webBBS/nf...gi?read=106188

http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/h...3/DSC_0029.jpg

I bought this last time I was in Idaho, it's a five shot .22LR and I'm not sure what it says about my penis size, but I think I bought it to compensate for the fact that I'm hung like Chuck Norris.

My girlfriend bought one too, not sure what she's compensating for.

http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/h...t/NAR_22LR.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Parvo

I bought this last time I was in Idaho, it's a five shot .22LR and I'm not sure what it says about my penis size, but I think I bought it to compensate for the fact that I'm hung like Chuck Norris.

My girlfriend bought one too, not sure what she's compensating for.

http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/h...t/NAR_22LR.jpg

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Eh, don't taunt the poop throwers. Most anti-gun rhetoric eventually gets around to sexualized metaphors, which actually says more about their psychology and sexuality than yours.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by coreshot-tourettes

Eh, don't taunt the poop throwers. Most anti-gun rhetoric eventually gets around to sexualized metaphors, which actually says more about their psychology and sexuality than yours.

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So I shouldn't feel like I'm compensating for anything with my 629?:D
http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/h...g?t=1209607614

Not unless you think that only 6" long and .357" in diameter is something to aspire to.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by coreshot-tourettes

Not unless you think that only 6" long and .357" in diameter is something to aspire to.

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Begging your pardon, but my S&W 629 Classic, as pictured, is of the .44 mag caliber.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Parvo

Begging your pardon, but my S&W 629 Classic, as pictured, is of the .44 mag caliber.

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Many apologies, I don't know wheelguns as well.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by coreshot-tourettes

Many apologies, I don't know wheelguns as well.

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In that case, you may appreciate my S&W 1911...
http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/h...g?t=1209618302

Quote:

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Originally Posted by coreshot-tourettes

Not unless you think that only 6" long and .357" in diameter is something to aspire to.

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That's funny - I was just drooling over a S&W 500 at the LGS.

So I am looking to get a shitty pistol for camping and carrying on bike trips (motorcycle)...any suggestions? I don't want to carry any of my expensive pistols and was thinking about a Glock in 40 S&W. I am not a 9mm fan, and I am not sure that I want to carry a heavy 45. Plus my Kimber is a 45 so I already have one of those.

I was thinking about the Glock because I like to fish and what not and with rain...it will probably get soaked a couple times.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gretch6364

So I am looking to get a shitty pistol for camping and carrying on bike trips (motorcycle)...any suggestions? I don't want to carry any of my expensive pistols and was thinking about a Glock in 40 S&W. I am not a 9mm fan, and I am not sure that I want to carry a heavy 45. Plus my Kimber is a 45 so I already have one of those.

I was thinking about the Glock because I like to fish and what not and with rain...it will probably get soaked a couple times.

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I have a Glock 23 and it feels like I'm gripping a 2x4 in my meat hooks. Nice shooter, easy to field strip, but I prefer my 1911 for concealed carry because of it's narrow profile. I don't take the Glock anywhere.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gretch6364

So I am looking to get a shitty pistol for camping and carrying on bike trips (motorcycle)...any suggestions? I don't want to carry any of my expensive pistols and was thinking about a Glock in 40 S&W. I am not a 9mm fan, and I am not sure that I want to carry a heavy 45. Plus my Kimber is a 45 so I already have one of those.

I was thinking about the Glock because I like to fish and what not and with rain...it will probably get soaked a couple times.

---

as a glock alternative try a compact S&W MP in the .40. With this model you can swap out the barrel for a .357 barrel in case you prefer that caliber.

or get the glock.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by skibuminwyo

No I am not here to cunt up the thread. I just have a question for the gun nuts, and for the first time in a while, I am not trying to start shit. :wink: So, the local fly fishing guides around here have taken to carrying shotguns for bears, a la Alaska style. I usually have a .45 LC that I pack with me, simply for noise, but have been thinking for awhile about doing the whole shotgun route. Probably 12 gauge, I think my old 16 clay gun would be too small, and it is too nice to mess up converting. I would like a folding stock, short barrel, easy to sling across back, easy to swing forward and accurate enough that if I point it in the general direction, Mr. Griz gets a face full. Most guys around here alternate between buckshot and slugs: One round shot, one slug, one shot, etc. Good idea? The bears around here have been getting more and more aggressive, and I have heard stories, no bullshit, of people unloading a whole can of pepper spray, and the bear keeps coming. Any ideas? It's either bigger boom, or no fishing in the high country. Thanks.


Oh, and mandatory, guns are evil. :FIREdevil

---

What make is your 45LC? If it's a Ruger Blackhawk, Redhawk, pre-2005 Vaquero, or Bisley I'd suggest shooting the heavy +P loads instead of buying a new gun. Buffalo Bore and Corbon both have hard-cast loads that push the 45LC to 44 Rem Mag performance levels. They'll knock down a grizzly no problem if you can do your part.

If you want a gun that's light, compact, cheap to practice with, yet powerful enough to take down a griz, I'd suggest you look at a .357 Magnum in a revolver with a 4" barrel. Some examples would be a S&W 66, 620, 686, etc or a Ruger GP100 (thought it's a bit heaver than S&W's). You can shoot cheap 38 specials for practice, then load it up with heavy .357 Magnum loads pushing a 180gr hardcast bullet at close to 1400fps. It'll penetrate a grizzly's skull without any problem, and the mild recoil will give you a chance to fire more rapidly than a larger cartridge (if you're lucky enough to get off more than one shot that is).

Regardless of what you buy, be sure to practice a ton because a gun won't do you any good if you can't hit anything.

I went and looked at guns tonight and I think I am going to go with the M&P 40..or 357 sig....have not decided yet.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gretch6364

I went and looked at guns tonight and I think I am going to go with the M&P 40..or 357 sig....have not decided yet.

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If you're going with the M&P it's too bad you didn't decide a little sooner. M&P's purchased on or before April 30th qualified for a $50 cash rebate and two free mags (worth $82).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gretch6364

I went and looked at guns tonight and I think I am going to go with the M&P 40..or 357 sig....have not decided yet.

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.357 Sig is not one of my favorite calibers. It has also fallen out of favor with a lot of the law enforcement community. A ton of recoil, meaning it is hard to get back on target. In addition, ammo is very expensive.

Ken

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gretch6364

So I am looking to get a shitty pistol for camping and carrying on bike trips (motorcycle)...any suggestions? I don't want to carry any of my expensive pistols and was thinking about a Glock in 40 S&W. I am not a 9mm fan, and I am not sure that I want to carry a heavy 45. Plus my Kimber is a 45 so I already have one of those.

I was thinking about the Glock because I like to fish and what not and with rain...it will probably get soaked a couple times.

---

The ballistics of the .40 really aren't all that better than 9mm. Some people call it the .40 Short/Weak, since its really a neutered 10mm. At 50 yards most 9mm rounds will actually outperform the .45, and 9mm will penetrate better than 45 at any distance. But Everyone has their own preference, and the caliber argument has been beaten to death all over the internets, so whatever.

You said you want the gun for camping, do you mean for protection against animals, or just crazy rednecks?

If its for animals, I'd get something in 10mm if you're set on an auto. If its for people, probably anything bigger than .380 will be fine.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Parvo

I have a Glock 23 and it feels like I'm gripping a 2x4 in my meat hooks. Nice shooter, easy to field strip, but I prefer my 1911 for concealed carry because of it's narrow profile. I don't take the Glock anywhere.

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I feel the same way about glocks, hks too, but the thing the really makes me not like glocks is that the grip angle is "off". If I raise the gun up to what should be natural aiming posture, I always have to correct it by tilting my hand forwards just a bit.

Some people can deal with it, but I can't.

I also just like metal handguns better.

I am buying the gun both for animals and crazy rednecks. But I also want a gun for plinking that I can just throw thousands of rounds through. I just don't want to be carrying my Kimber while I am fishing or on my bike touring/camping in the middle of no where in BFE, Wyoming. So I thought I would get a composite gun for under $600 that I could care less about getting wet/muddy.

There is just something deep down inside me that tells me to never rely on a 9mm for personal protection. There is a reason alot of law enforcement agencies are switching to the 40. Also, how much more could the 357 sig kick than a 40? I know it is necked down so there will be some higher pressure...surely it is not any worse than a 45 in one of these light composite guns.

But I have never shot it....I am looking to go with a compact or smaller full size...I checked out the HK's because I have always liked them...but seemed like to nice of a gun with too high of a price tag for what I am looking for. If I got a USP...I would probably care too much about it and I don't want any reason not to carry something in the middle of summer, which is what has happened with my 1911s...just too much gun to hide in the heat.

As far as a 10mm...it just not what I am looking for in this situation. I am not going to go with the glock...after handling them I just don't like the grip angle.

the S&W MP 40 shots well. It's a good price and a good gun for what you are looking use it for. i prefer

i haven't shot the .357 sig in it so i can't comment on that.

i'm not sure about all the balasitics, but a lot of agencies use the 40 because of the combined stopping/pentrating power and low recoil. it's a good caliber to shot in your non-dominant hand and you still feel that you are in control of the gun.

i use to be more on top of all this but since i've moved to california everyone is against me and my guns so i do a lot of this in a dark basement with the lights off while the wife thinks i am doing taxes.

Check out the springfield xd in a 40, 3 differrent sizes and they shoot real well.

gretch.

Realize that all handguns suck at stopping people. Even a .44Mag is outclassed by a rifle too underpowered to hunt deer with in some states. Get whatever caliber is cheap, available, and that you can shoot accurately and fast. Plenty of people have been killed by 9mm and .45, so pick one and buy it.

Look into the CZ-75 series - stone reliable gun, cheap, high capacity, can be had in either a decocker or safety version, and comes in subcompact, compact, and fullsize. I've carried one for years, dropped it in the mud, got it wet, still runs even though I've never cleaned it through 2900 rounds. And it's one of the most pointable and ergonomic guns out there.

The fullsize:

http://www.cz-usa.com/data/productimg/main031.png

The compact:

http://www.cz-usa.com/data/productimg/main037.png

A .357SIG gun has recoil like a .40 but a lot sharper. Some people don't like that.

The reason that "A lot of LE is switching to .40" is because S&W told them it was the right thing to do. Police departments are uniformly firearms-ignorant, so I wouldn't rely on what they say.