Home Remodel: Do, Don'ts, Advice

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Originally Posted by Foggy_Goggles

Austin, you seem like a smart, rational guy so I'm not gonna call BS on your numbers. Yes, there are regional differences. Yes, Big Sky is probably expensive. No, Boulder is not the same because it is 45mins. up the road from Brown Town.

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That may be true. I wouldn't know. I just would have just assumed that people in "Brown Town" would treat Boulder just like people in Bozeman treat Big Sky. You know. Just like liv2ski said, the "you must have money surcharge."

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Originally Posted by Foggy_Goggles

I have no idea what a beveled joint is. What do you consider mid-level? Full plywood box, dove-tail draws, full overlay, maple etc.?

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I don't either. I really don't know cabinet nomenclature whatsoever. I'm talking about having 45 degree angles on the faces instead of the cheaper, and far more common straight ones. Not sure what you call that, but I'm over the 45s realizing that I totally cannot afford anything cool like that.

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Originally Posted by Foggy_Goggles

Have you called...SIMKINS HALLIN LUMBER

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No, but that's a great idea! I think my problem is that I'd been dealing mostly with salespeople and contractors. Now that I'm a "construction contractor" myself for a side business of mine, I can finally buy stuff through some of the suppliers directly. I know one of their local reps, so perhaps Simkins might be a good route.

OK, it seems like many of you are feeling like the remodeling industry is trying to rip you off. Everyone's busy, nobody likes working for free. Here's a tip: understand the difference between a "free estimate" and a "bid". A bid is a price for a defined scope of work. As your customer, it is your job to defined the scope of work. If you are not willing to do the product research, educate yourself on the industry terminology and generally be a "good customer", you are either going to receive a very high "estimate" or get blown off.

So...since we went down the cabinet bath, here is some guidance. Understand what a cabinet plan is. Not the CAD rendering, the plan. Do you know what a W1236 or a SB30 is? It's OK, don't get you hackles up...you've got the internet.

http://www.aristokraft.com/cabinet-r...ture-downloads

Draw up your own cabinet plan and figure a list of cabinets. Email it to the lumberyard's cabinet chick and say, "I don't want to waste your time with a site visit and a full kitchen design, I'm just trying to budget for my remodel. Could you please price these cabinets".

Repeat down the line with a hand full of suppliers and see where you get. If you are not willing or don't have the skills to do this, you deserve to get ripped off. People like helping people who are willing to help themselves.

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Originally Posted by twodogs

What the hell does "pull a permit" mean? Been doing this shit for fifteen years and never heard such lingo.

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It's pretty common lingo here in Colorado. Can't speak for the rest of the United States and Canada. It basically means, fill out the local jurisdictions paperwork and pay the fees to obtain the permit to complete the scope of work.

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Originally Posted by Below Zero

It's pretty common lingo here in Colorado. Can't speak for the rest of the United States and Canada. It basically means, fill out the local jurisdictions paperwork and pay the fees to obtain the permit to complete the scope of work.

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common in VA, NY & OR too

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Originally Posted by Foggy_Goggles

Some of you guys either have really expensive tastes in interior finishes or you are getting rolled. Off the top of my head, here are some estimates for a "high end kitchen"

Cabinets $10K
Level 4 Granite $5K
Flooring $3K
Tile Splash $2K
Appliances $5K
Plumbing Trim $3K

Were does the extra $50K go? Even @ $75/hr. bid rate $30K will get you 10 man weeks of labor. It's a fuckin' kitchen not the Taj Mahal.

If you want to spend $80K on a kitchen that's your business, I know it happens and plenty of people are happy at that price. Understand that price does not equal quality.

Maybe I'm underestimating the average dentist salary but I've been in plenty of ya'lls houses and I've yet to see one that justifies an $80K kitchen.

Vibes if you feel like you "need" a $2.5K Franke farmers sink.

Danno, cost control is all about your interior finish schedule. The problem you have right how is you probably don't have the ability to figure out "how much it costs" on your own. Tell the GC of your choice that you'll pay him for his time to develop a comprehensive estimate and go from there.

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i had a kitchen/bath remodel built this spring w/ the custom cabs @ $28k for a small kitchen incl GC markup. The bath cabs were only a single 5' vanity so most of the cost was the kitchen itself.
not customized system cabs, custom cabs: rift white oak, dovetailed drawers, solid edge drawers/doors, soft close, integrated ref/freezer, maple veneer interiors, modest cab pulls. And that was just modern flat panels, no mouldings or applied ornament.
The countertop number was $13k for quartz, incl GC markup.

Attachment 170455

this is not even considered high end at all

^^^I think you are telling me the cab for a small remodel cost $28K? Was it your house or are you a contractor, can't tell? What is the GC "marking up the cabs"? Do your friends come over and say, "nice dove tails bro?".

Point is, just like everything else in the world there is a line of people ready to take your money if you're ready to give it too them. Saying Danno should budget $20K for his cabinets is like saying a Ford Explorer can't go pick up the groceries or that only Jonnie Black will get you drunk.

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Originally Posted by Foggy_Goggles

OK, it seems like many of you are feeling like the remodeling industry is trying to rip you off. Everyone's busy, nobody likes working for free.

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Wasn't suggesting that the two bids were trying to rip me off. But the reality is that Boulder often sees an upcharge on many things. It just does. Or maybe upcharge is the wrong word, as I don't always think it is something like "Boulder? Better add 50% to that bid", that sounds bad. But, say, for the guy who quoted me $130k, the reality for him is that he primarily works in Boulder (he lives in my neighborhood) and he gets paid a shitton by people looking for high end work. So why should he quote me $80k (even if he could do it for that price), when other people are willing to pay him $130k for his stuff? I don't think he's a bad guy, I don't blame him, but would he be quoting $130k if he worked in many other locations? I doubt it.

I haven't fully priced out my kitchen yet but I did a studs out remodel in my (small) bathroom for about $3500 in materials, midgrade finishes, bought at retail, all work myself. This included new tub, nice sliding door, all new fixtures, tile floor, tile to the ceiling in tub/shower, replacing (but not moving) some of the plumbing, new drywall/cement board, new wiring, custom granite vanity, vessel sink, custom medicine cabinet, etc.

Someone threw out budgeting $35k for a full bath? Get the fuck out.

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Originally Posted by Foggy_Goggles

^^^I think you are telling me the cab for a small remodel cost $28K? Was it your house or are you a contractor, can't tell? What is the GC "marking up the cabs"? Do your friends come over and say, "nice dove tails bro?".

Point is, just like everything else in the world there is a line of people ready to take your money if you're ready to give it too them. Saying Danno should budget $20K for his cabinets is like saying a Ford Explorer can't go pick up the groceries or that only Jonnie Black will get you drunk.

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You make it sound like there's zero value in anything other than the cheapest of any given thing, but I suspect you don't truly believe that.

Yes, that's right off the GC's bid doc. The markup is written into the subs bids so I don't know the figure, but I'm guessing it's about 25%. Yes, that may sound high, but this GC does the right thing, instead of the cheap thing, and is a high quality GC, the kind anyone would want to work on their home.

I'm an architect.
I've never tried to put Danno into my example. I'm just trying to provide examples for comparison.
I doubt Boulder vs PDX sees huge pricing differences for these sorts of jobs, but I haven't worked in that market, so take it for what it is: a guess.

My comments may not reflect Danno's budget, but, for a fully GC-run project without the doubts & questions, this is what is required in PDX for a GC you can trust that isn't going to nickel/dime the project through it's process. It also reflects a fairly complete design set with all the items spec'ed out.

The only reason I post this stuff is to offer some perspective for the folks reading along these threads. I constantly run into folks with unrealistic expectations for their house remodels. And, by default, I'm in the world of people who can afford to have an architect work on their project so I'm not seeing the truly budget projects.

as always, ymmv

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Originally Posted by adrenalated

I haven't fully priced out my kitchen yet but I did a studs out remodel in my (small) bathroom for about $3500 in materials, midgrade finishes, bought at retail, all work myself. This included new tub, nice sliding door, all new fixtures, tile floor, tile to the ceiling in tub/shower, replacing (but not moving) some of the plumbing, new drywall/cement board, new wiring, custom granite vanity, vessel sink, custom medicine cabinet, etc.

Someone threw out budgeting $35k for a full bath? Get the fuck out.

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for an architect-designed full service GC-run job with quality finishes here in PDX, yes
(and that is just the construction cost)

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Originally Posted by adrenalated

I haven't fully priced out my kitchen yet but I did a studs out remodel in my (small) bathroom for about $3500 in materials, midgrade finishes, bought at retail, all work myself. This included new tub, nice sliding door, all new fixtures, tile floor, tile to the ceiling in tub/shower, replacing (but not moving) some of the plumbing, new drywall/cement board, new wiring, custom granite vanity, vessel sink, custom medicine cabinet, etc.

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That's great to see those numbers for materials. Because we had one small operation give us a pretty reasonable quote for the bathrooms, with the only variable being the materials we chose.

Ive been in the industry for 20 years, degree in CM and plenty capable and if I was going to do it I would put ad on CL for top notch finish carpenter foreman. Pay him a nice wage and have him run the show. You approve and pay for materials direct. A month will cost you about $10k and it will be worth every penny. Lie to him and tell him you have 10 more to do after this so he keeps motivated. The minute he he slacks or fucks around, replace him. House remodels are kid stuff.

Welcome to construction

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Originally Posted by adrenalated

I haven't fully priced out my kitchen yet but I did a studs out remodel in my (small) bathroom for about $3500 in materials, midgrade finishes, bought at retail, all work myself. This included new tub, nice sliding door, all new fixtures, tile floor, tile to the ceiling in tub/shower, replacing (but not moving) some of the plumbing, new drywall/cement board, new wiring, custom granite vanity, vessel sink, custom medicine cabinet, etc.

Someone threw out budgeting $35k for a full bath? Get the fuck out.

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20k quote.. like yesterday for a studs out bath remodel.

My time is worth something and it would take me like a year to finish it... so, yeah.... tile is pretty cheap, but everything else I would consider high end for a regular home, or bottom level compared to what these guys build up in Aspen.

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Originally Posted by Foggy_Goggles

OK, it seems like many of you are feeling like the remodeling industry is trying to rip you off. Everyone's busy, nobody likes working for free. Here's a tip: understand the difference between a "free estimate" and a "bid". A bid is a price for a defined scope of work. As your customer, it is your job to defined the scope of work. If you are not willing to do the product research, educate yourself on the industry terminology and generally be a "good customer", you are either going to receive a very high "estimate" or get blown off.

So...since we went down the cabinet bath, here is some guidance. Understand what a cabinet plan is. Not the CAD rendering, the plan. Do you know what a W1236 or a SB30 is? It's OK, don't get you hackles up...you've got the internet.

http://www.aristokraft.com/cabinet-r...ture-downloads

Draw up your own cabinet plan and figure a list of cabinets. Email it to the lumberyard's cabinet chick and say, "I don't want to waste your time with a site visit and a full kitchen design, I'm just trying to budget for my remodel. Could you please price these cabinets".

Repeat down the line with a hand full of suppliers and see where you get. If you are not willing or don't have the skills to do this, you deserve to get ripped off. People like helping people who are willing to help themselves.

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Foggy, you're a good egg. I owned a nice kitchen & bath showroom for 10yrs.
Aristcrap, was my low end, but there is noting wrong with them. There's a lot more margin in the full blown custom stuff.

I remember doing and 8x8 bathroom, 64k, it was pretty snazzy.

@austin, the term is chamfered. I always liked the beaded face frames with beaded inset doors. Throw a sweet custom finish on there and your at 30-40k
In no time.

I'll make you the same offer as foggy.

this thread is delivering for me keep up the good work

love how everyone thinks its so easy typical try humping 5/8 drywall up three flights of stairs bitches I'm super pissed cause obama has turned the economy around and I gotta work this january and febuary, was gonna be skiing and hanging out in the desert for two months and now this shit, whats up with that, anyone who thinks its easy and I'm ripping people off can spend a week with me we start at ten this morning

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Originally Posted by fastfred

love how everyone thinks its so easy typical try humping 5/8 drywall up three flights of stairs bitches
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anyone who thinks its easy and I'm ripping people off can spend a week with me we start at ten this morning

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This is what america has come to.

We can trade off fred. I'll spend a day carrying dry wall, and you spend a day collecting firewood. Pick you up at 6, I'll buy you dinner on the way home. We can see how you feel about carrying dry wall after to spend a day side hilling 4 cords...

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Originally Posted by Danno

Wasn't suggesting that the two bids were trying to rip me off. But the reality is that Boulder often sees an upcharge on many things. It just does. Or maybe upcharge is the wrong word, as I don't always think it is something like "Boulder? Better add 50% to that bid", that sounds bad. But, say, for the guy who quoted me $130k, the reality for him is that he primarily works in Boulder (he lives in my neighborhood) and he gets paid a shitton by people looking for high end work. So why should he quote me $80k (even if he could do it for that price), when other people are willing to pay him $130k for his stuff? I don't think he's a bad guy, I don't blame him, but would he be quoting $130k if he worked in many other locations? I doubt it.

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Jesus $130k?!? I bet the fine print requires your wife to bang him once day too.

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Originally Posted by smitchell333

Jesus $130k?!? I bet the fine print requires your wife to bang him once day too.

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Fringe benefits?

Any Front Range folks have ideas for good places to go shopping for stuff (tile, vanities, tubs, fixtures, etc) outside of Home Depot/Lowes? We went to Floor and Decor in Arvada, seemed like a cheap place for tile. Other places we should go to?

I do like salvage yards, and Uncle Benny's in Loveland is a good one.

I picked out my granite at daltile off I25 and santa fe. There are a ton of little shops next to it that will do the install cheap. They may even have some old stuff they want to get rid of for less.

I got my cabinets at lowes after shopping a few places, lowes jacked up my cabinets, twice sending me the wrong style for one of my drawers.

I charge the same in boulder, castle rock and denver. If everybody charged more for boulder how is it my hit rate is the same in all three? I should be landing everything I bid in boulder then.

Labor is up about 20% from last year.

My oversize shower was $4k for full tile
My cheap ass granite was $2k for 2 sinks
Cabinets I set were $700 for 2 bases, side blocks and a drawer they never got right
garbage mirrors $800
painted it myself $300
wired it myself $750
sinks $400
show head thing$250
Trim work by myself $800- I bought a trim nailer and I suck at it. I should have had somebody else do it
I carpeted the whole thing which I like and everybody hates $?
I added some nice train rack for shelving $800

You usually get what you pay for. I've seen crazy expensive stuff and total hack jobs.

Good luck.

You carpeted your bathroom?

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Originally Posted by stfu&gbtw

You carpeted your bathroom?

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I echo this question
why??

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Originally Posted by baby bear

I echo this question
why??

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Maybe he likes the smell of urine?

FTR, I will not be carpeting my bathroom floors.

Probably porcelain tile.