Tutorial: Molding Intuition Liners

I have to use footbeds because of pretty tragic pronation...luckily, I have duck feet and need to use soemthing to take up the volume above my forefeet anyway.

Did 2 sets of liners in the last 2 nights. Want to highlight the tips on this thread that made this so easy and successful (2 different shops eff-ed this up).

Build the boot spreader...I used scrap 1X12 pieces and some excess Nordic Trak pieces, $3 ratcheting tie downs from home depot. Had a nasty set of Neox binders that I used to hold the boot in place.

Did an HD Race liner in a pair of Technica plug boots and a set of Luxuries in Dynafit ZZero AT shoes.

Set the whole apparatus on a treadmill so I had handholds and beer holders...beer is key.

Silicone spray is the bomb for sliding into the boot.

Convection oven set to 220 for 14 minutes was perfect for the bake.

I used 1 piece of neoprene from a ski strap and a toe from a wool sock to make a toe cap that worked for each foot (flip it over)...oh and lots of duct tape to make it smooth. When forming the toe cap used the little spongy things from the wife's pedi set...damn those things hurt!

I used Smartwool Ultra thin socks...1 layer first, tape toe cap and foot bed to the first layer, then put second ultra thin sock over the whole shebang.

Put the liner on your foot then put your foot/liner into the shell (spread it first ... duh!). Mind the tongue...ignore the pain...don't pull up too hard on the heel or your liners will end up at the back of your knee.

Buckle the boot loose if you have duck feet...if you need more volume, buckle the boot tight to compress the liner more...double the beer ration...

Stay in it for 15 minutes.

Don't try to do more than 1 foot per night. My feet were pretty swollen after the first round and if I tried to do a second set of liners, it would have been too big when done.

Tried the rice method, and it was a total fail. There seemed no way to get the rice right into the toe of the liner. So, I popped the liners (new Scarpa Rush boots with OE Intuition liners) in the oven. With the Rush, the tongue pivots way out of the way, but the edge of the lower boot creates a little roadblock to getting the liner in quickly and smoothly.

So I cut a 2L pop bottle up, making a home-brew shoehorn. Worked like a damn, not even a teeny wrinkle in the liner.

For toe caps, I cut up some old neoprene paddling socks, and that worked really well. I suffer from terrible cold feet, so needed a good amount of room. I was also solving a toe rub problem.

One trick I gleaned from this thread was to heat the oven with the rack out. Then I popped the rack in and put the liner in. I didn't like the idea of the liner resting on a hot metal rack, so that soothed my fears there.

I think as long as you have a way to get the liner into the shell quickly and smoothly, the oven method is worth doing.

Same basic experience as johngenx.

Tried rice....was a bush-league mold. Nothing to the upper cuff. Instep still had hotspots. Couldn't get my footbed to seat and mold into the bottom properly. I skied one day and although I was surprised that there was little pain, it was clear the fit wasn't great.

Oven method worked amazingly in comparison. Instructed my wife on holding the shells open and did some practice runs:

-Heated in a pre-heated convection oven @ 225 for 10 mins
-When they were sufficiently hot they were VERY soft and opened up like a bat wing (Luxury MV)
-Inserted the footbed, inserted my foot, stepped into the open shell
-Buckled them slightly less tight than normal and stood with my toes on 2x4's for 8 minutes

Voila! Perfect fitting liners with no wrinkles. Now that I feel the difference between Intuitions and all of my stock liners, I can't believe how much better they are. Can never go back.

I place the oven rack in the middle of the oven and cover it with a sheet of non-stick tinfoil to protect the liner. No issues with sticking at 200 degrees (I've never needed to go hotter with Intuitions).

For the ultimate liner conformation (and a really painful experience) pre-heat your boot shells with boiling water poured into turkey cooking bags placed in the shells. I've found this gets the liners back up to molding temp after they've cooled a bit while slipping them onto my feet.

I regret using silicone spray every time I step and hear my liners squeak against the shells. Takes a long time for the silicone to dissipate. Plastic bags and a milk-jug shoe horn (genius idea!) should be sufficient next time.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by critical-motion

I regret using silicone spray every time I step and hear my liners squeak against the shells. Takes a long time for the silicone to dissipate. Plastic bags and a milk-jug shoe horn (genius idea!) should be sufficient next time.

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Yeah mine are pretty loud. But they pay foley artists good money to get that sound for the movies--the sound of a leather jacket creaking.
One thing I noticed with powerwraps is that the double wrap in front decreases the forward lean. I added heel wedges (see forward lean thread.)

Another successful job here. Older (but unused) intuition Powerwraps. Has given an old set of boots new life! Question: I used a themometer and at 10 minutes, the internal temperature was about 95 c, not 119c like the rest of the oven Just an observation.

Steamed the shells gently for at least ten minutes - used silicone sheets to keep them from touching the bottom of the pan. Just to soften the shell to make it easier to get the Intuition in, not to remould them (yet). Hoping this will also kill the bugs which make the boots stink! :D

Cooked the Intuitions on a tray on more silicone rubber baking sheet, wedged to open the wraps and remote thermometer in the bottom. 10 minutes (fan oven) and they opened up massively! Took the shell out and locked it into ski bindings. With helper, opened shell and stepped into it with Intuition (and orthotic + pads over veins). Loose, buckle, skis on 4x2, ten minutes and done! Repeat, put everything away and have a cup of tea.

Thanks for the info - great thread! Couldn't have done it without. :)

Beer people, don't forget the BEER!

I got my stove fixed, bakin boots again.


:biggrin:

Great success molding my DFP-branded Intuitions in my new-to-me Titans last night. I acquired the whole package used and twice-baked from lingcod (shells like new and stock liners literally new, but the Intuitions are much better and less painful). My foot is wide but not particularly long or tall for the Titan shell that's wide enough so I wanted to get my Instaprint footbeds in there and take up some volume. Yooper's advice was great and I wound up with what I think is the best fit possible for this combo on my foot.

The liners went in the convection oven on the foil-covered middle rack. Wifey didn't exactly OK this but I went ahead and got started before she realized what was happening:
Attachment 133244

Budget homemade toe caps (2 old cotton socks with a bunch of tape) and pieces of sock jammed between my toes in lieu of pedicure supplies:
Attachment 133245Attachment 133246
I put a thin-ish ski sock over the whole contraption and it felt secure.

I baked for 10-11 mins at 230 and could have gone hotter but it didn't seem necessary. Pulled the liners out with a pair of gloves on, jammed the footbeds in as quickly as possible, and had some help from the wife holding the boot open. It was actually way easier than I expected to get foot/footbeds/liners/etc in the shell, and then it's just a long wait.

It wasn't too bad at first but it got pretty hot and uncomfortable. Luckily I read this thread beforehand and kept a stockpile of beer at arm's reach:
Attachment 133247

After about 12 mins on each foot the liners were pretty cooled down so I took the boots off and mounted them up. When I tried them back on later, mid-foot and heel hold are top notch and my toe caps made plenty of room to wiggle around a bit in the front, so the 20 mins of extreme toe pain seems to have been worth it. We'll see how the rebaked liners hold up over the rest of the season but I would highly recommend this method to anyone out there on the fence. Thanks to Yooper and to all who contributed for making my budget gear acquisitions work.

Good stuff yoop.

I tried the rice and it was bush league.

Baked my powerwraps and I couldn't be happier. I just mounted an old binding to a piece of plywood to hold the boot while I stretched it myself. No wrinkles, whatsoever. Also, i used some spray-on (lemony fresh) furniture polish for lube, and it did the trick.

Number one rule of molding still is to keep at least 2 beers within arms' reach per boot. It's science.

Update: After doing a home bake/fit, my new Scarpas are fukin' awesome. Did a week long backcountry trip that included having a long tour in and out to the hut, and the boots were great. Day trips have been great too. Mission accomplished: they tour and ski great.

The secret to getting floppy, oven cooked liners into any shell is definitely a) heat shell (small space heater worked) and b) use a lubed up milk jug as a shoe horn. I had no problem getting the liners, insoles, and my feet into the shell, all at once, with no wrinkles.

To the top for the Intuition group buy mags and mins...

Note: A little bird told me that if you are going to mold these in the standard kitchen oven, use 200 degrees F as your temp, not 240.

Apparently, there is a fine line between baking perfectly and overbaking to the point the liners start to lose structure.

Big ups to Yooper for this thread.:yourock: Went for thin socks instead of thicker ones, but other than that did everything in the OP and they came out money. As noted, the boot spreader is key. And beer. Beer is key, too.

peeps-The newest intuitions are low heat moldable=put um in lace um up ski-BLISS. I shit you not. I get mine through pep and the girl at the factory said to forgo the oven and give the ski in them method a try. For me it was the best fit yet ( 3 pairs ) I have the lace up dreamliner. A bit of a slow gear up on a powder day but have zero foot issues.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rodneyyee

peeps-The newest intuitions are low heat moldable=put um in lace um up ski-BLISS. I shit you not. I get mine through pep and the girl at the factory said to forgo the oven and give the ski in them method a try. For me it was the best fit yet ( 3 pairs ) I have the lace up dreamliner. A bit of a slow gear up on a powder day but have zero foot issues.

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Only certain liners have that foam...not all of them. Still better off heat molding, especially if you have a high volume foot in a lower volume shell.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by PlayItLeo

Big ups to Yooper for this thread.:yourock: Went for thin socks instead of thicker ones, but other than that did everything in the OP and they came out money. As noted, the boot spreader is key. And beer. Beer is key, too.

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Beer is the KEY!!! Be sure U save one that is REAL COLD to pour over your feet when U take your poor Fkk'n feet out of the Hot Liners!!!

Cheers for this thread MaGs...

I am getting ready to oven mold a pair of Scarpa branded Pro Tours, but I've never done a lace-up before...

So do I bake and mold them with or without laces? If with, do I pull 'em tight or leave them loose?

Jay,

I just did mine (Pro tours) without the laces. Set the little convection oven to ~220 and they molded up great. I would do them without the laces.

Seth

I would say it depends on how you plan to ski 'em. If you're going to use the laces then mold with them (that's what I did with my Pro Tongues).

So I posted in this thread a few years back, and never did mold mine. Just stopped using my MegaRides. Well, I want to use the light binding, so I pulled everything back out, built a decent shell pulling contraction, and think I can actually get the liner in hot, if I cut out a fabric type thing that comes under the tongue near the toes.

Anyway, I know you can't get a fit without baking them, but when I did throw the Power Wrap liner in, and then my foot, I was unable to buckle the calf buckles. I could get the lower one on the first, loose, hiking latch, but the top one I was unable to latch at all.

I don't want to go through the process, bake the liners, and not have them work. Does anyone one know if while they are hot, I should be able to compress them? Or am I more likely just to crease, and crimple the fuck out of it, while I try to get my boots on?

I'm thinking of just going out and seeing if my current boot will drive my Kusalas. If they need more boot (which I think they may), then maybe a more tour oriented liner might fit better?

I was guided to the size 8, into a 26.5 (300mm) Garmont, by Intuition, so I don't know if it is a size issue. Thoughts?

how do they fit as is?

size 8 in a garment? i'd lean towards a 26.0 as it's a 26.5 shell. i'm a 9-9.5 and have 27.0

rog

They fit nicely as is. A little slop, but I think that is mostly from the old ass shell and packed out liner. Bigger issue is how soft they are compared to what I am used to. The feel even softer than my Solly Guns. (Which I've been tourin in mostly).

I'm. 9.5 shoe. Shell fit is about one finger. Maybe 1.5. My concern is how I can't even come close to buckling them with the Intuitions. As a note, I have big calves (I think) and even with the stock liners I'm on the first/second notch on the calf buckles anyway. But that is over a cm away from the touring notch, which I can't even get on the top buckle with the in-molded liner.

9.5 shoe? you have slop in a boot with a 300bsl? holy moly. i'm barely a 9.5 and my 6 year old never been heat molded scarpa's are so snug I barely have to buckle some of the buckles.

I do know tho that a 27 in garment would be a bit sloppy for me and a 26.5 is too short from my experience. you have a wide/narrow/medium width/volume foot? narrow/medium you might be in the wrong brand of boot depending on the model.

rog

Yup. But with no (real) funds to replace it, I'm going to try to make it work for the season. I kind of like the idea of one simple mount on these skis. And slop, as compared to a ghost, which is like a vice. I think I'm kind of narrow, except for one ankle bone.

I'm also thinking the power wrap is the wrong model for this boot. Maybe a tongue model would fit better.