If only there was something we could do...

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06-09-2022, 11:51 AM
toast2266

Quote:

Originally Posted by DBdude

guns are not an issue in rural america except for suicide and violence toward women. of course these are important but to your average american - not so much... yay america

the gun violence in urban america (polite for minority neighborhoods) is a serious issue. the numbers don't lie:

in 2015, 26% ofall firearm homicides in the United States occurred in census tracts that contained only 1.5% of thepopulation

So you're saying more people die from guns in places where more people live? No shit.

Per capita death rate from firearms doesn't actually correlate that well with highly populous states. It (negatively) correlates pretty well with restrictions on gun ownership though.

Firearm deaths per 100k people: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/s...ty/firearm.htm
06-09-2022, 12:00 PM
schuss

Quote:

Originally Posted by ex-powderbroker

this is what annoys me when people say "chicago". That city on its own has the same homicide rate as louisiana, and less than alabama. If it was covered the same way Fox New should light up every time some redneck kills his wife down south, but it doesn't work that way.

Yep, and as I pointed out - every time they do a sourcing check on guns used in crimes in Chicago, over half are from more permissive states like Mississippi, Indiana and others because local restrictions make it harder. If Chicago is such a big issue, why aren't those same viewers and whatabout posters advocating for changes that prevent Chicago area criminals from getting guns to commit crimes with?
There's some good data and potential solutions here: https://urbanlabs.uchicago.edu/attac...2022+Final.pdf
As he puts it - it's not a violence problem as much as an "arguments with guns" problem that can be solved by earlier interdiction. If you couple that with making it much harder to get guns, then gun violence becomes minor altercations where both walk away alive versus the shitshow we see right now

However, dogma and rhetoric prevent guns from being "part" of the problem, as they are used safely elsewhere, so there's no change. Interstate commerce laws make it laughable to enact stricter laws in any one state if a short drive away it's available with no checks or balances.
06-09-2022, 12:07 PM
Peruvian

Very interesting discussion (without resulting to name calling, shouting, etc). It also shows that libertarians have no solutions to gun violence and accept that the price of freedom includes dead school children.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ObWwteDdQG0
06-09-2022, 12:33 PM
Adolf Allerbush

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peruvian

Very interesting discussion (without resulting to name calling, shouting, etc). It also shows that libertarians have no solutions to gun violence and accept that the price of freedom includes dead school children.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ObWwteDdQG0

Their pod can be a painful listen. They seem to be convinced of the idea that there is this middle ground all the time and that they have it figured out, which is laughable. Krystal's voice is grating. Sagaar and his libertarian idiocy is just that. almost every discussion devolves into him basically throwing up his hands and saying nothing can be done because xyz reason...in this case he says he doesn't trust the government to regulate guns so we should do nothing. WTF?
06-09-2022, 12:54 PM
subtle plague

Quote:

Originally Posted by riser4

Cause, the gubmint, man. Hitler used the registry when he conquered Poland.

But he also built the Autobahn.....

All libertarians of the Sovereign citizen movement hate the evil government, don't pay takes, but have the god given right to use the Highways of America.

Edt: oh and guns of course.
06-09-2022, 12:55 PM
toast2266

Quote:

Originally Posted by schuss

Interstate commerce laws make it laughable to enact stricter laws in any one state if a short drive away it's available with no checks or balances.

I wouldn't say it's "laughable." Like you said, there's certainly spillover from one state to another. But the data still shows that overall, firearm death rates are lower in states with more restrictions.

I'd assume that part of that is because of suicides. I doubt that many people who are looking to shoot themselves are gonna drive to a more permissive state to buy a gun.
06-09-2022, 01:04 PM
schuss

Quote:

Originally Posted by toast2266

I wouldn't say it's "laughable." Like you said, there's certainly spillover from one state to another. But the data still shows that overall, firearm death rates are lower in states with more restrictions.

I'd assume that part of that is because of suicides. I doubt that many people who are looking to shoot themselves are gonna drive to a more permissive state to buy a gun.

Fair point. More accurate would be "the effectiveness of stricter gun laws will be heavily dependent on proximity to states with much looser laws".
06-09-2022, 01:08 PM
abraham

Quote:

Originally Posted by schuss

Fair point. More accurate would be "the effectiveness of stricter gun laws will be heavily dependent on proximity to states with much looser laws".

So Mexico?

It's held up as having such strict gun laws and having so much cartel gun violence. Weirdly from what I've seen the vast majority of guns in Mexico are from the US.
06-09-2022, 01:09 PM
MagnificentUnicorn

Quote:

Originally Posted by ex-powderbroker

Not really, minorities are more affected by our shitty gun laws. Are you happy about that? Does that make it ok that a bunch of kids got shot up in a school or a lot of people will stick a handgun in their mouths and pull the trigger?

Are you sorry you posted a chart where every column is demonstrably false?

It doesn’t matter to him, they were brown for the most part

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06-09-2022, 01:11 PM
MagnificentUnicorn

Quote:

Originally Posted by ex-powderbroker

What's your point, that the gun laws are ok because it hurts "other people" more? No, I am not ok with that, the fake stats, or your racist confirmation bias.

You know what I would like? If our firearm homicide rates looked like France or Finland.

For all people or just the white people? Sirhumppingguns doesn’t care about the lesser races

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06-09-2022, 01:20 PM
TNKen

The maps kinda look like the diabetes belt. Maybe there is a direct connection.

BTW, did my part. My box of P-Mags arrived yesterday.
06-09-2022, 01:22 PM
MagnificentUnicorn

Quote:

Originally Posted by TNKen

The maps kinda look like the diabetes belt. Maybe there is a direct connection.

BTW, did my part. My box of P-Mags arrived yesterday.

Getting ready for antifa?

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06-09-2022, 01:24 PM
TNKen

Naah, just making sure I have enough mags to run my M-16 and AR's when they be no more. Not much fun to have a full auto with a 10 round mag.
06-09-2022, 01:28 PM
SumJongGuy

Quote:

Originally Posted by TNKen

Naah, just making sure I have enough mags to run my M-16 and AR's when they be no more. Not much fun to have a full auto with a 10 round mag.

So you're saying you'll keep them after they're banned and illegal to own? AKa you will choose to be a criminal?
06-09-2022, 01:28 PM
::: :::

Quote:

Originally Posted by TNKen

Naah, just making sure I have enough mags to run my M-16 and AR's when they be no more. Not much fun to have a full auto with a 10 round mag.

well, as long as you can still have fun
06-09-2022, 01:28 PM
garyfromterrace

Quote:

Originally Posted by abraham

So Mexico?

It's held up as having such strict gun laws and having so much cartel gun violence. Weirdly from what I've seen the vast majority of guns in Mexico are from the US.

Same problem we have up here. One of the many reasons I'm disgusted by the lack of any real progress on restricting gun access in the US. It's not just your problem, people in other countries are getting killed because of your laws (or lack thereof)
06-09-2022, 01:30 PM
SumJongGuy

Quote:

Originally Posted by abraham

So Mexico?

It's held up as having such strict gun laws and having so much cartel gun violence. Weirdly from what I've seen the vast majority of guns in Mexico are from the US.

Yes, Mexico will be much safer and their access to assault style rifles will be all but cut off if we ban them here. They get all theirs from us, not the other way around..
06-09-2022, 01:30 PM
mcphee

Owning the libs by letting everyone know you’re a scared dork.
06-09-2022, 02:02 PM
toast2266

I don't really take issue with Ken's autos. Those things are hard to get, and are therefore expensive. You don't see much in the way of criminal activity with M16's. As Jim Jefferies said in the clip that was posted earlier, if you can afford $30,000 for an M16, you probably don't need to go commit crimes to enrich yourself.

We just need to make the semi-autos similarly expensive. Bolt action hunting rifles can stay affordable.
06-09-2022, 02:08 PM
TNKen

Quote:

Originally Posted by SumJongGuy

So you're saying you'll keep them after they're banned and illegal to own? AKa you will choose to be a criminal?

They won't ban them from ownership. Only new manufacture and transfer. The recent house bill didn't ban ARs or mags, only new mags with more than 15 round capacity, and the sale of ARs to persons under 21. Nothing about existing AR's or mags.
06-09-2022, 02:16 PM
MagnificentUnicorn

If only there was something we could do...

Quote:

Originally Posted by SumJongGuy

So you're saying you'll keep them after they're banned and illegal to own? AKa you will choose to be a criminal?

If he actually has an M-16 it’s already registered and the BATF knows he has it. The real question is why he has it, it’s prohibitively expensive to shoot full auto firearms. Like it would likely be a few hundred dollars for a short range session. So it’s more likely that he just likes to fondle it and think about how powerful it makes him.

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06-09-2022, 02:18 PM
PNWbrit

Quote:

Originally Posted by MagnificentUnicorn

The real question is why he has it.

Compensating.
06-09-2022, 02:21 PM
bennymac

Quote:

Originally Posted by MagnificentUnicorn

If he actually has an M-16 it’s already registered and the BATF knows he has it. The real question is why he has it

cuz bus loads of ANTIFA are touring around to the shiftiest areas of ‘Merica to take yur jobs and turn the kids and frogs gay. Duh.
06-09-2022, 02:27 PM
Cisco Kid

Guns don't need to be "BANNED!!!yikes!!!". They need to be in the hands of a regulated militia. So keep your guns. Just register all guns, accessories and ammo to use at the range to keep the killing skilz sharp. And make body armor illegal to wear in public again.

For the anti government 2A nuts that think they need unregistered firepower, keep it in the basement and no one will care.
06-09-2022, 02:30 PM
TNKen

Quote:

Originally Posted by MagnificentUnicorn

If he actually has an M-16 it’s already registered and the BATF knows he has it. The real question is why he has it, it’s prohibitively expensive to shoot full auto firearms. Like it would likely be a few hundred dollars for a short range session. So it’s more likely that he just likes to fondle it and think about how powerful it makes him.

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Bought it for $4,500, today worth about $34,000.
Regrets. Bought an MG-42 for $31k, sold it for $60k. Its sister sold last week for $192k.

Pretty damned good investment.

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