If only there was something we could do...

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Originally Posted by paulster2626

Should have to be 25 to own a gun. Any gun. At age 18 you can start taking gun courses at a range or whatever. Drinking age should be 19, juuuuust when you're old enough to start going to college.

That's my liberal utopia.

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In my world, that's insane. Participation in hunting is already dropping, suggesting that kids can't learn gun safety and marksmanship when young and have their own hunting firearms as teenagers would be a huge cultural shock, plus I doubt it would move the needle on gun deaths.

If my kids don't get into shooting as a recreational activity or sport, that's 100% fine with me (and would avoid potential disagreement with my ex-wife on the matter). However, I hope she'll still be amenable to them learning basic gun handling (especially the treat every gun as loaded and watch where the business end is pointing bits), because one of the best ways to mitigate the risk of improperly stored firearms is to teach the people you can to respect what even a bolt action .22 can do downrange.

And please don't think that I oppose holding people responsible for what happens with their firearms. I'm also 100% behind civil responsibility for what happens when you intentionally or negligently provide someone who either is legally prohibited or who you know is dangerous with the means to make headlines, and I'd also support codifying that, possibly with criminal penalties, on a national basis. That would include private-party sales to prohibited individuals, even if a background check isn't required (ie don't require a federal action that creates a de facto registry, but make the seller responsible for somehow ensuring that the buyer is legit).

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People hunt for sport, not food. Maybe unless you live off the grid in Alaska. The reasoning, "I like guns" is the only reason to need a gun in modern society, period

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Originally Posted by anotherVTskibum

Also, if I'm licensed to drive anywhere in the US, I can drive my car or motorcycle anywhere in the country. That's not the case with current gun laws--being licensed to carry concealed in one state doesn't carry over in many other states.

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you still have to comply with local traffic laws of how you drive your car.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but participating in “hunting activities” does not require said kid to actually “own” the gun.

I mean, I learned to drive on somebody else’s car way before I was able to own my own car.

and when I learned firearm safety and how to properly handle a firearm, at no time was I required to “own” the firearms that I was using.

Why shouldn't "well regulated militias" have rosters? How are red flag laws supposed to work without knowing where the flags are to start with.. And, anyone afraid that mental health standards might be an obstacle to them keeping their guns shouldn't have them to start with..

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Originally Posted by m2711c

Correct me if I’m wrong, but participating in “hunting activities” does not require said kid to actually “own” the gun.

I mean, I learned to drive on somebody else’s car way before I was able to own my own car.

and when I learned firearm safety and how to properly handle a firearm, at no time was I required to “own” the firearms that I was using.

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The post I was responding to suggested that you should be 18 to even be able to take lessons at a range.

And while legal ownership may be a little different, having your "own" rifle seems to be a rite of passage. Even if the actual text of a law made clear that the adult(s) in the household legally owned any guns, including those that were used and maintained by the children, the headline for that law would be "your kids can't have their own gun."

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Originally Posted by dunfree

you still have to comply with local traffic laws of how you drive your car.

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Yes, but they're mostly standardized, U-turns, suicide lanes and Vermont passing aside.

If you want to follow that path, I'd point out that very few places will strictly enforce local equipment laws if you're operating an out of state vehicle that's legal in your state, and based on interstate compacts, it seems murky as to how much they even can (assuming you haven't modified federally restricted equipment). The firearm parallel would be bringing your NH-legal AR and standard 30-round magazines into Vermont for target shooting, which is not legal due to Vermont magazine size limits.

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Originally Posted by k2skier112

People hunt for sport, not food. Maybe unless you live off the grid in Alaska. The reasoning, "I like guns" is the only reason to need a gun in modern society, period

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I know people who have filled freezers in the fall to manage their grocery bills through the winter, and I've never been to Alaska. I also know that getting cow steak of a comparable quality to the venison I've eaten will run you well upwards of $10/pound, so even a moderate sized buck has a nontrivial impact on grocery spending (or, more likely, food quality, because the cheaper alternative is meat of questionable origin).

The claim that you shouldn't need an AR for most hunting is legit. You can certainly use one, but it's not going to be the most cost-effective option, so I think it's a tangent at best (I'm having a tough time coming up with a subsistence hunting scenario where a semiautomatic rifle is necessary).

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Originally Posted by TahoeJ

You aren't really this dumb are you?

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He was shitting his pants thinking buses full of ANTIFA were headed to his town, so yes, he really is that dumb.


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Or he's just trolling them

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Originally Posted by Harry

He was shitting his pants thinking buses full of ANTIFA were headed to his town, so yes, he really is that dumb.


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#neverforget

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Originally Posted by k2skier112

People hunt for sport, not food. Maybe unless you live off the grid in Alaska. The reasoning, "I like guns" is the only reason to need a gun in modern society, period

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I agree with much of the recommended gun control options mentioned above and loathe the widespread availability of semi auto large capacity rifles but really struggle to believe this one. Personally in the past 4 years my wife and I have purchased <5 pounds of store bought red meat. There was a quarter cow and a lamb somewhere in there that a friend raised but beyond that it's been a mix of deer, elk and bear.

I really enjoy the activity of hunting and the calm of sitting and watching the world around me but I also REALLY enjoy walking out to my freezer to get some meat for tomorrow nights dinner.

The proportion of the US that hunts for food has to be single digits. It's some combination of rich and rural but not necessarily both.

Jesus guys some of you are wayyyy out of touch when it comes to hunting.

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Originally Posted by John_B

I agree with much of the recommended gun control options mentioned above and loathe the widespread availability of semi auto large capacity rifles but really struggle to believe this one. Personally in the past 4 years my wife and I have purchased <5 pounds of store bought red meat. There was a quarter cow and a lamb somewhere in there that a friend raised but beyond that it's been a mix of deer, elk and bear.

I really enjoy the activity of hunting and the calm of sitting and watching the world around me but I also REALLY enjoy walking out to my freezer to get some meat for tomorrow nights dinner.

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People want to hunt, people don't need to hunt. It's a hobby. When one adds up the cost, it's cheaper to buy protein

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Originally Posted by John_B

I agree with much of the recommended gun control options mentioned above and loathe the widespread availability of semi auto large capacity rifles but really struggle to believe this one.

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Yeah, I don't think targeting legit sport shooters or hunters is sensible. Don't let the nutters hide behind their legitimacy... but don't get side tracked. Guns/Ammo (long guns) used in game hunting don't have the same characteristics as the fetish buyers. Take some quick wins.

3.5 to 4% of the US hunts. Part of that cohort hunts for food.

https://www.doi.gov/pressreleases/ne...shing-wildlife
https://cnr.ncsu.edu/news/2021/01/de...ation-funding/

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Originally Posted by muted reborn

Jesus guys some of you are wayyyy out of touch when it comes to hunting.

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not sure which way you are aiming, but personal experience is a bunch of hunters who really enjoy it trying to rationalize it as logical/economical when outside of narrow circumstances that swing TGR (rural west) it’s not at all. It’s legal, they value it, cool. But 50# of venison from your hunt that cost how much?

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Originally Posted by dunfree

not sure which way you are aiming, but personal experience is a bunch of hunters who really enjoy it trying to rationalize it as logical/economical when outside of narrow circumstances that swing TGR (rural west) it’s not at all. It’s legal, they value it, cool. But 50# of venison from your hunt that cost how much?

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I don't think it's just rural West. I'm pretty sure I know at least a few, if not a handful, of folks in northern New England for whom a freezer full of venison makes a difference. Not life-altering in most cases, but the cost to hunt when you can do it either locally or at a friend's cabin is pretty low and mostly either entry cost (acquiring a firearm and, probably more expensive, proficiency with it) and time cost.

But I'll agree that it's almost entirely rural, and buying an AR for deer hunting is plausible but definitely not the most economic solution.

Arguing for no guns, or for extreme restrictions on all guns, is very different and less palatable to most when compared to more, even extreme, restrictions on specific types of firearms. I'd go with "all semiautomatics, both long guns and pistols" as the appropriate target to drastically reduce gun deaths without having unnecessary impacts on hunting, but that's still a huge lift.

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Originally Posted by anotherVTskibum

Arguing for no guns, or for extreme restrictions on all guns

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Who’s doing that?

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Originally Posted by ::: :::

Who’s doing that?

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The straw man the gun nuts like to argue with.

If you value your time at nothing, sure. But that’s either your time is worthless or it’s a lifestyle you enjoy. Figure about .50-1$ a lb, average for northern white tail deer meat from license fees alone. But that number means you butcher yourself, using average figures for weight and yield. (Montana resident elk license is about the same price as NH resident deer, and elk are a whole bit bigger, like 4x, so the numbers are way better) Add you weapons, ammunition, clothing, tree stand, butchering supplies or paying a processor and it adds up.

fish is usually a way cheaper animal protein - carp are invasive, no limit, yield about the same % in meat.

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Originally Posted by dunfree

fish is usually a way cheaper animal protein - carp are invasive, no limit, yield about the same % in meat.

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Not accounting for time - gathering wild food for one”s own table is a pleasure. But the fish vs ungulate is spot on. Given the rise of fuel this year, our ocean trip will break even on store-bought fish. Still worth it, but I rent the boat ;)

Hunting is a pleasure, and preferred over comparable store protein. Best compromise is still farm to table; a couple lamb yearlings do that fine per year.

Right of passage stuff is symbolic. Could just as easily use a bow, probably a better lesson in marksmanship and hunting ethic anyway. But I value the privilege of having a long gun to procure meat for the table.

If we need to have extremely lax gun laws because that’s the only way that a family can afford to eat, then I’d propose a trade:

Structer gun laws in exchange for a more robust wellfare state.

The child credit that is being phased out is a hell of a lot more valuable than lax gun laws if the concern is feeding your family. And as an added benefit, it doesn’t leave thousands of people dead.

Seriously, can’t imagine many families are really relying on hunting to make ends meet, and even if they are, not sure how any of the proposals I’ve seen would actually keep them from continuing as they currently are.

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Originally Posted by J. Barron DeJong

Seriously, can’t imagine many families are really relying on hunting to make ends meet, and even if they are, not sure how any of the proposals I’ve seen would actually keep them from continuing as they currently are.

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Yup. I live in such a place, and none of the proposed or existing laws in Canuckistan will change that for that small percentage that choose to rely on wild sustenance. But there is always the proclamation of tyranny of govt. Funny they all cashed their COVID checks though.