Gravel/Bikepack nerds enter...

There are definitely a few sections you want extra capacity. And maybe moreso for you in fall when things are drier, and with new trail construction that bypasses Patagonia and Sonoita. I brought a 6L dromedary plus a couple 1L or 1.5L smart water bottles. Only filled the dromedary completely twice. Once between Kentucky camp and Tucson when it was low 90s and the other between Oracle and Freeman Rd (also hot, minimal water sources). You can get away with carrying less if you're willing to filter from cattle tanks but those can get pretty nasty. Most of the way you can get by without carrying a ton but you need to do your research on reliable fill up spots and resupply locations/hours. There are public water caches along the trail that are stocked but mtbers are asked not to rely on them since we can normally get from one tap to the next without issue. Hikers on the other hand can't travel fast enough and have to rely on those caches. The only one it was accepted for bikepackers to use was Freeman Rd. A water collector was recently installed there which should provide reliable supply. Another one was installed a couple years back between Kelvin and Picketpost.

If you're used to riding rigid I'd say go for it. I ran a hardtail and kept the fork locked out quite a bit. AZT is a bit rockier than BCT north of BCC but not terrible. You're going slower when bikepacking too and there aren't a lot of big descents like you get on the Colorado trail. 2.6 tires would help. I just ran my normal setup, DFH front and rear. I'm sure they were exo casing. I seldom have tire issues so I don't pay much attention. I would carry a tire repair kit (glue, curved needle, thread etc) so you can sew up a sidewall tear if needed a long with plugs. There is plenty of opportunity to tear a tire out there. Can't recall if I brought 1 or 2 tubes. 1 is probably enough.

Hike a bike wasn't terrible on AZT. There aren't a ton of sustained climbs or descents. You'll push a bit in the Canelos. And most of the climb up to and then down into Molino basin (Mt lemmon). You'll probably down hike some on Sunset trail top of Lemmon and both up and down on Oracle Ridge. The climb out of the Gila river has some especially higher up. Gold Ridge TR #47 is on the 800 route. It's a steep descent, lots of people will down hike parts of that. There is some pushing around Pine, on the High line trail and the climb up to the Mogollon rim is mostly hiking. And a couple shorter pushes once you're up there. All of these are mostly due to trail steepness not because it's technical. How strong a climber you are and how tired your legs are can impact amount of pushing a lot. I tend to do a lot even on fire road climbs to rest my backside and give legs a break. I definitely got a lot stronger during that ride!

Recent things

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^Looks amazing! Hot damn, Montana.

Current bike setup. I added a dropper and some bags this year. Still waiting on a new wheelset to ship.
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It's still winter in the mountains here
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But the valley is starting to green up
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Green tunnel season starting in Vermont

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After work today-
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We went out for the annual reminder that desert "gravel" is rugged (and amazing).Attachment 459533Attachment 459534

Too lazy to go back and look through this thread….is anybody running inserts? I’ve got a cushcore and a tannus to try. I hated the Tannus in my mtb, wondering if I’ll dig it in the grav grav.


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Underbiking is fun.

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No I didn’t roll this one, but found some other rocky & rooty tech that pushed the limits.

I have the vittoria inserts.

they seem to work. at really low pressure if you really push on the tires you can kind of feel them. also seemed to provide support the time I got a puncture anyway.

downsided- kinda janky with the cut and zip tie format, and then they stretched out after a month or so. Deflated tires to add sealant and they popped off the bead and I could feel the insert floating around in there. Trimmed them down and now they stay tight in the rim bed. was pretty alarming to see the inserts essentially push the tire off the bead when it's kind of supposed to do the opposite of you get a flat.

Would maybe do tubolights or something next time around. Do like having them in the gravel wheels for sure since there's so much less tire volume between the rim and the ground.

Gran Fondo Leavenworth yesterday. Pretty fun ride. Swakane Canyon is incredible.Attachment 459743Attachment 459744Attachment 459745

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Originally Posted by jamal

I have the vittoria inserts.

they seem to work. at really low pressure if you really push on the tires you can kind of feel them. also seemed to provide support the time I got a puncture anyway.

downsided- kinda janky with the cut and zip tie format, and then they stretched out after a month or so. Deflated tires to add sealant and they popped off the bead and I could feel the insert floating around in there. Trimmed them down and now they stay tight in the rim bed. was pretty alarming to see the inserts essentially push the tire off the bead when it's kind of supposed to do the opposite of you get a flat.

Would maybe do tubolights or something next time around. Do like having them in the gravel wheels for sure since there's so much less tire volume between the rim and the ground.

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I have been running the gravel tubolights in the Pirelli Cinturato M, and like them. Adds some extra dampening, light, and I like the shape of the insert better than the other more simple pool noodle options. Given some of these gravel inserts dont add much weight, highly recommend them.

Installed a Tubolight last night in a 45c Rambler. Initial impression is very positive. I’m gonna have to check my psi this morning. Started at around 40psi (I’ve been conditioned to run firmer tires in my gravel bike for whatever reason, probably a hatred of flats and a tendency to ride it like a Mtn bike) and bled out some air through ride based on feel. I think I can still go lower from where I ended up.
We did a fun ramble of trails and gravel around Durango last night.
Gravelsaurus Sex - the final ‘Spring Classic’ of our scene and a sweet kickoff for Iron Horse Bicycle Classic Weekend. We got on top of Smelter Mtn at 8:40, chilled for a moment, took in the view and had a sporty descent back to town. Back to the shop at 9:50.
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Originally Posted by bfree

Gran Fondo Leavenworth yesterday. Pretty fun ride. Swakane Canyon is incredible.Attachment 459743Attachment 459744Attachment 459745

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Last pic is a favorite spot. Nice viewpoint just above Derby Pass. Did the route go down Derby Canyon or Eagle Creek?


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Originally Posted by MagnificentUnicorn

Last pic is a favorite spot. Nice viewpoint just above Derby Pass. Did the route go down Derby Canyon or Eagle Creek?


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Eagle Creek. That descent is a hoot on a gravel bike. Flowy turns and lots of deep ruts to dodge and jump.

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Originally Posted by bfree

Eagle Creek. That descent is a hoot on a gravel bike. Flowy turns and lots of deep ruts to dodge and jump.

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It’s fun for sure. Twisty at the top and then let’er rip once you get to the bottom of the canyon.

I just looked at the course map, I’ve done that ride a few times but counterclockwise and always starting in Wenatchee. Usually I/we take some alternate roads to add more gravel/dirt road miles. The Entiat ridge road is really nice from French Corral up and over Chumstick mountain and down Mills Canyon to Entiat. So many unpaved roads between Hwy 2 and Chelan

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Any Memorial day sales on good gravel bikes coming up? Or any tips on finding what I'm looking for on the used market?

I posted ~8 weeks ago that I was looking for a gravel and road bike. I ended up with a used Cannondale Synapse (Ultegra) which has been great. I'm still looking for a gravel bike but Pinkbike, eBay, Craigslist, and Facebook haven't had much lately.

Basic specs that I think I'm looking for: ~58cm, carbon, mounts for bike packing bags, slack-ish headtube (70-71), 1x drivetrain, open to dropper, hydraulic disc, $2-3k. Amenable to used or new.

Interesting models that I have seen on PB that seem good: Marin Headlands 2, BMC URS One (probably not enough mounts). A Mag also mentioned the Panorama Katahdin which I can get for ~$3,100 USD but that's a little more than I'd like to spend. Not totally out of the budget though. I may have found a Marin Headlands 2 for 15% off locally - brand new - which seems like the best option currently.

Any tips or suggestions? Just buy new? Any bike recs given those requirements? I've been looking at used bikes so much I haven't really looked for new ones lately - open to recs that check most of the boxes. Thoughts? Thanks.

Have you seen the new price drop on Lauf bikes? A lot of bike for the money.
Mounts are really not necessary for bike packing anymore, the new bags are good just strapping them to the frame or saddle/post.

https://www.laufcycling.com/product/seigla-rigid

As I've noted before, Lauf can offer great value IF you like a really low stack. Check geometry carefully.


If you're ok with building one, Chinese frames can be had for $800 or so, and certainly a nice full build would come in under $3k. I love my Carbonda 707.

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Originally Posted by climberevan

As I've noted before, Lauf can offer great value IF you like a really low stack. Check geometry carefully.


If you're ok with building one, Chinese frames can be had for $800 or so, and certainly a nice full build would come in under $3k. I love my Carbonda 707.

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Can you elaborate more about stack, and how it’s different on Lauf bikes? I’m just a hair under 5’9” barefoot, and I’m looking at a small from Lauf. I’m currently on a 56cm Crux and it feels like I’m riding a horse. I had know idea that Specialized ran so big. Will I be able to make the Lauf work with a bunch of headset spacers and the stem pointing up? I’m on a Trek emonda road bike 56cm and the stem is almost slammed and pointing negative. I like the feel of the Trek setup like this.

Laufs have much lower stack than most gravel bikes. I'm also 5-9, and I ride a 52cm Emonda (with the older H2 geometry, so slightly taller HT than the new 1.5 style), 110mm stem, slammed, which gives me a 75mm saddle to bar drop. A small Lauf True Grit or Seigla would be lower than that, and way lower than your 56.

Headset spacers will raise the stem, but they will also effectively shorten the reach, so you'll need a longer stem to get the bars back where you want them. Most people aren't running 120mm stems on gravel bikes these days bc they don't want a lot of weight on the front wheel (unlike on road bikes).

My position is that unless the frame will put the bars where you want them with 0-15mm of spacers and a 90ish mm stem, it's likely the wrong size for a gravel bike.

Included the Seigla. Attachment 460072

I’ve never owned a drop bar bike. But I’m contemplating buying a gravel bike. Would mainly be used on road and mellow single track. I’m completely oblivious to geo on gravel bikes. And have a minimal understanding of gravel group set. I’m looking at a few different bikes. GT carbon grade elite (grx400 group set), GT carbon grade expert (grx brakes, 105 shifters and front derailleur, ultegra rear) and Canyon grill cf (grx40p group set). They all seem fairly similar, the GT expert has the best components. Is the extra $300 worth it for the the better components? The Canyon accepts wider tires 50mm vs 42mm. I’d appreciate any feedback. I’m just looking for a bike I can ride from my house after work and not have to load up a mountain bike to drive to trails. Basically a performance fitness bike that’s off road capable and more comfortable than a road bike.


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Originally Posted by climberevan

Laufs have much lower stack than most gravel bikes. I'm also 5-9, and I ride a 52cm Emonda (with the older H2 geometry, so slightly taller HT than the new 1.5 style), 110mm stem, slammed, which gives me a 75mm saddle to bar drop. A small Lauf True Grit or Seigla would be lower than that, and way lower than your 56.

Headset spacers will raise the stem, but they will also effectively shorten the reach, so you'll need a longer stem to get the bars back where you want them. Most people aren't running 120mm stems on gravel bikes these days bc they don't want a lot of weight on the front wheel (unlike on road bikes).

My position is that unless the frame will put the bars where you want them with 0-15mm of spacers and a 90ish mm stem, it's likely the wrong size for a gravel bike.

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Whoa, thanks for that. My emonda is the H1.5 geo. I think I’ll just keep riding the Crux with 90mm stem until Specialized releases more frame sets. Trying to find a 54 is proving to be difficult. I do like riding the Crux, no one had any to test ride when I purchased mine, otherwise I would have jumped on the 54.

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Originally Posted by altacoup

I’ve never owned a drop bar bike. But I’m contemplating buying a gravel bike. Would mainly be used on road and mellow single track. I’m completely oblivious to geo on gravel bikes. And have a minimal understanding of gravel group set. I’m looking at a few different bikes. GT carbon grade elite (grx400 group set), GT carbon grade expert (grx brakes, 105 shifters and front derailleur, ultegra rear) and Canyon grill cf (grx40p group set). They all seem fairly similar, the GT expert has the best components. Is the extra $300 worth it for the the better components? The Canyon accepts wider tires 50mm vs 42mm. I’d appreciate any feedback. I’m just looking for a bike I can ride from my house after work and not have to load up a mountain bike to drive to trails. Basically a performance fitness bike that’s off road capable and more comfortable than a road bike.


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I wouldn't worry about those component differences. Unless you're talking about butter smooth singletrack, I'd opt for the widest tires you can get. Or, depending how long of road rides you're talking, a hardtail mtb with fast rolling tires might even be better. Gravel bikes may be all the rage these days but they're still not the right tool for singletrack with any technicality.