Fu*king Cyclists

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Originally Posted by highangle

Really? I couldn't find the defense attorney's statements ["The defendant's lawyer's case"] in your link. Just analysis from an opposing law firm representing one or more of the bicyclists.

So how the fuck can you call the defense "Audacious" and "Absurd" when you haven't heard a word of it? God damn.

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Defense attorney's statements, which are in the link:

Then, in early October, Jason and Jennifer Arnold retained Rick DeToto, a local Texas criminal defense attorney, to represent their son. DeToto made a red-herring statement to the public when he declared that his client “is a young man in high school with college aspirations. He’s a very new and inexperienced driver. This was a serious accident but did not involve any criminal intent. He immediately called 911, helped with the injured and cooperated with police.”

Rick DeToto continued to prattle on by saying, “The police did an investigation at the scene. This included speaking with eyewitnesses to the accident. After their investigation, they decided not to charge my client and did not even issue him a traffic ticket. Clearly, they determined a crime had not occurred.”


There's no evidence that he called 911 or rendered any aid to the injured.

"Prattled" huh?

That's not a statement, it's a minimum effort press release. Prob a misquote or entirely made up by your judgemental author to profit from all this. Article goes on to state they don't even know if that guy is representing defendant.

The defendant's attorney was correctly quoted: https://www.khou.com/article/news/lo...8-1f90668104fb

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Originally Posted by TBS

If I understand correctly there was an adult (21+?) passenger in the truck.
You can bet he, and the parents, are gonna get the shit beat out them in civil court once this is over. Doubtful their insurance will cover the claims for six badly injured people.

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Why would the 21+ passenger have any liability? If they are not a parent or custodian, who says they weren't just along for the ride?

No way to hold parents criminally liable unless they are individually charged with something vague, like reckless endangerment. I've seen it happen when a parent leaves a gun unattended and the kid grabs it.

The reality is most serious personal injury cases settle for the insurance policy limits, not more, because most people are broke and you can't squeeze blood out of a stone. The criminal restitution can be for the full amount, but again, how do you get someone with no money to pay the fine? Some places jail you for not paying. That costs a lot and doesn't accomplish much. Other states get default judgments against you and send it to collections. Poor people ignore it and their credit is fucked, but their credit is fucked for other reasons as well. Another example of how our criminal justice system buries the poor.

License suspension is standard, but this punishment also hits poor and rural people the hardest. America is auto dependent and it is tough to get by without access to a vehicle. Washington has an occupational license where you can only drive to work, school, health care, ect.

Their 17-year old was driving an F250, I'm pretty sure they can afford to get him an apartment on a bus line.

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Originally Posted by Dantheman

The defendant's attorney was correctly quoted: https://www.khou.com/article/news/lo...8-1f90668104fb

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Finally, a link to a creditable news source.
You know Dan, they'll kick you out of the lynch mob if you continue to deviate from the hyperbole spewed by plaintiff's law firm.

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Originally Posted by dan_pdx

Their 17-year old was driving an F250, I'm pretty sure they can afford to get him an apartment on a bus line.

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Busses in Waller, Texas? lmfao
Next you'll be sending him to Whole Foods on his front basket singly to pick up a bunch of organic arugula...

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Originally Posted by dan_pdx

Their 17-year old was driving an F250, I'm pretty sure they can afford to get him an apartment on a bus line.

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What makes you think the parents will continue to take care of the kid's financials after he hits 18? Statistically speaking, most criminal defendants are broke. Even those driving F250s.

In what world is this kid defendable? Many, many witnesses, pretty obvious case. Face it, you are just being a knee-jerk contrarian, and are wrong…again.
Besides, everyone and anyone who rolls coal should get an immediate 1 year sentence for simply being a douchebag.
With an extra year if the perp has truck nuts.
Mandatory.

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Originally Posted by highangle

Finally, a link to a creditable news source.
You know Dan, they'll kick you out of the lynch mob if you continue to deviate from the hyperbole spewed by plaintiff's law firm.

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Are you still of the opinion that the coal-rolling reports are fabricated?

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Originally Posted by rideit

In what world is this kid defendable?

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Oh OK, so the court will just hear the prosecution/bike lobbyist's side of the story and make its judgement based entirely on that?
That's all you needed to determine there's no possible defense to the accusations, so why should a criminal court need any further information before it condemns this minor child?

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Originally Posted by Dantheman

Are you still of the opinion that the coal-rolling reports are fabricated?

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I'm of the opinion they have to be proven in court to weigh against defendant.

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Originally Posted by altasnob

What makes you think the parents will continue to take care of the kid's financials after he hits 18? Statistically speaking, most criminal defendants are broke. Even those driving F250s.

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Attachment 392117

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Originally Posted by highangle

I'm of the opinion they have to be proven in court to weigh against defendant.

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lol.

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Originally Posted by rideit

In what world is this kid defendable? Many, many witnesses, pretty obvious case. Face it, you are just being a knee-jerk contrarian, and are wrong…again.
Besides, everyone and anyone who rolls coal should get an immediate 1 year sentence for simply being a douchebag.
With an extra year if the perp has truck nuts.
Mandatory.

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This post sums up everything that is wrong with the criminal justice system. We are talking about a 16 year old. You, I, and everyone else did some dumb shit when we were 16. We just got lucky. If you want to correct this 16 year old's behavior, you have to go all the way back to when his parents were growing up.

I haven't expressed an opinion on what is an appropriate sentence. Just pointing out sentencing 16 year olds for crimes is difficult, and I believe it is best if the sentence tries to set this kid up for success in life, not failure.

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Originally Posted by highangle

I'm of the opinion they have to be proven in court to weigh against defendant.

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So if the charges are proven in courts, what do you think the consequences should be?


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

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Originally Posted by altasnob

This post sums up everything that is wrong with the criminal justice system. We are talking about a 16 year old. You, I, and everyone else did some dumb shit when we were 16. We just got lucky. If you want to correct this 16 year old's behavior, you have to go all the way back to when his parents were growing up.

I haven't expressed an opinion on what is an appropriate sentence. Just pointing out sentencing 16 year olds for crimes is difficult, and I believe it is best if the sentence tries to set this kid up for success in life, not failure.

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So we should show minors that there are no consequences even if they do really horrible things?


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

I assume that the defense will argue that he was trying to annoy the cyclists and did not intend to hit them. Assuming how believable that comes across--and it would probably mean the kid would have to testify and be sympathetic to the jury--I would consider that like driving drunk or driving grossly over the speed limit, and injuring someone with the same range of penalties.
He should be tried as a juvenile, because he's a juvenile and way too many kids (especially Black kids) are tried as adults. The way to bring equity to the justice system is not to treat white defendants as unfairly as Black.

I am not advocating for a slap on the wrist. Certainly the kid should face consequences, only that the consequences should be based on the facts of the crime, the kid's age, lack of criminal record, and be proportionate to other similar offenses. And when he gets out of whatever juvenile detention facility he winds up in, he should be sent to a reeducaton camp in Berkeley CA.

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Originally Posted by MagnificentUnicorn

So we should show minors that there are no consequences even if they do really horrible things?

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I didn't say that. You are putting words in my mouth. I would need to know the unbiased facts of the case, the defendant's criminal history, and any other mitigating or aggravating factors before I could state what I think is an appropriate sentence. But I think any license suspension should include an ability to obtain an occupational license to drive to work and school. I think any fine or restitution should allow the defendant to make minimum monthly payments based on their ability to pay (which could change over time). I am in favor of community service over incarceration. How many people do you know crushing it in life with a serious criminal conviction when they were 16?

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Originally Posted by MagnificentUnicorn

So if the charges are proven in courts, what do you think the consequences should be?

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Increased fines for not maintaining statutory minimum speed on Texas highways.


So if the charges aren't proven in court, what do you think the consequences should be for witnesses who dissimulate and falsely impute intent?

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Originally Posted by highangle

I'm of the opinion they have to be proven in court to weigh against defendant.

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I asked if you, personally, believe they were fabricated by the witnesses at the scene.

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Originally Posted by altasnob

I didn't say that. You are putting words in my mouth. I would need to know the unbiased facts of the case, the defendant's criminal history, and any other mitigating or aggravating factors before I could state what I think is an appropriate sentence. But I think any license suspension should include an ability to obtain an occupational license to drive to work and school. I think any fine or restitution should allow the defendant to make minimum monthly payments based on their ability to pay (which could change over time). I am in favor of community service over incarceration. How many people do you know crushing it in life with a serious criminal conviction when they were 16?

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Community service? When there are kids doing time for nonviolent drug offenses? Nope. Some kind of juvenile detention for sure. And as far as license suspension--certainly no exemption for work or school until he's 18 AND out of his parents' home, and then let him petition the court for restoration of his license if his circumstances make school or work impossible without it.. Otherwise not unt he's 21. Lots of people in this country get to work and school without cars--because they can't afford one. Let him ride a bike.

I hope you all know I was being (somewhat) facaetious. Sure, he should get a juvenile sized punishment, but if laws are meant to curb egregious behaviors, then this case is an opportunity to make a concrete example.
Too bad that it might have to be this kid as opposed to an adult drunk taking out and killing a number of cyclists…

There are entire YouTube compilations of trucks rolling coal on bikes and online communities who think this rolling coal and buzzing bikes and pedestrians behavior is funny.

I’m all for making an example.

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Originally Posted by rideit

I hope you all know I was being (somewhat) facaetious. Sure, he should get a juvenile sized punishment, but if laws are meant to curb egregious behaviors, then this case is an opportunity to make a concrete example.
Too bad that it might have to be this kid as opposed to an adult drunk taking out and killing a number of cyclists…

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Bikelaw certainly wants to make an example of this kid [and rake in as much cash as they can]. Why should you be any different?