If only there was something we could do...

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Originally Posted by Cisco Kid

Life advice I remember from my father. "Don't be afraid of anyone, unless they can shoot you." Now dad was speaking from experience as he had killed more than a few men and seen 100's of men who had been shot and died.

Do tell me your experiences with death by guns. 1st or 2nd hand. Going golfing and off the TGR so I'll read your reply later today.

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I agree with the first statement. So, therefore, i would like fewer guns, less chances of me or someone i know being shot.

I have not been shot, nor do I know first hand someone who has died from being shot. Let's keep it that way. Reducing the number of guns out there will help accomplish that.

There was a guy we knew through kids that had a reputation as a buyer and seller of guns, hard to get stuff etc. Once his reputation got around, he was sort of not invited to stuff anymore, as most we associate with don't have much interest in being around guns, besides hunting rifles and shot guns. Last I heard he moved to Texas. Good riddance.

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Originally Posted by basinbeater

I have not been shot, nor do I know first hand someone who has died from being shot.

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i don’t know how to pilot a helicopter but if i see one in a tree i know someone fucked up.

that helicopter is our stupid centuries old gun laws.

With so many TRGers here over 40 or 50 yrs old, I know I’m not alone In being around to see the societal transition that resulted in the pervasive ammosexuality / living in fear syndrome. I grew up around guns, just like I grew up around drill presses and TIG welders and chainsaws. It was a tool not a fetish.

My die-hard Republican gun owning grandfather (RIP) would not even recognize today’s NRA or GOP.

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Originally Posted by frorider

My die-hard Republican gun owning grandfather (RIP) would not even recognize today’s NRA or GOP.

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Best one I've seen lately is "I didn't leave the Democratic Party, it left me."

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Originally Posted by TNKen

Best one I've seen lately is "I didn't leave the Democratic Party, it left me."

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lately meaning reagan, 1982?

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Originally Posted by frorider

With so many TRGers here over 40 or 50 yrs old, I know I’m not alone In being around to see the societal transition that resulted in the pervasive ammosexuality / living in fear syndrome. I grew up around guns, just like I grew up around drill presses and TIG welders and chainsaws. It was a tool not a fetish.

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You are spot on. Because I was participating in this thread, I was processing on this today. About how my life experience and the realities of a shifting world changed my view.

When I was in my 20s, I was for sure more in the 'everyman should learn marksmanship and gun handling' mindset. Being able to protect yourself thru these means was deemed sensible. Honestly, I didn't know shit and, get this... I even belonged to the NRA. First shop I purchased from...(they're always run by Dale Gribble aka Rusty Shakleford).. sold me on that. I remember '5% off your purchase plus they give you insurance'. Sold! Lol - 1 year of embarrassing propaganda begging for money put me off that train forever. Anyway.... mostly target shooting with friends in the woods. The protection aspect never really came to pass....

So I was just recounting... I'm at 50 years. Other than shits n grins while target shooting... I can't think of a personal situation where a gun present was a benefit. Then, I started down memory lane where a fire arm being present made a situation worse

Careless & dangerous handling from others at the range, in the woods, in public - reckless complacency
Drunk ppl being reckless / cavalier while armed
People shooting across trails I was on
People shooting overhead without a backstop or otherwise careless - unconcerned about ppl present
Credible threat to be shot
Someone brandishing in a threatening manner
Domestic violence with partner trying to gain access to weapons
Confrontations escalated with a firearm - threatening & even discharges!
Generally odd encounters with armed people
Gun Suicides

That's a lot of life experience negatives without meaningful positives to justify their place in our society. That over 40 & 50 thing is important here in the conversations; I think most of us at that age stop over considering 'getting ours' and lean into reconciling our life experiences in the hopes of bettering the world for others.

Edit: I almost forgot this one somehow. In highschool, a kid took a class hostage with a rifle until one of the teachers wrestled it away from him. It was big news at the time, no one hurt but prescient to were we are now.

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Originally Posted by ex-powderbroker

lately meaning reagan, 1982?

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lhttps://www.cnn.com/2022/06/05/polit...ntv/index.html

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Originally Posted by TNKen

Best one I've seen lately is "I didn't leave the Democratic Party, it left me."

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More apt for Republicans these days as they went from mildly populist mostly business and apple pie party to Trump+gun fetishes+zero actual financial expertise. Unless you're rich or a racist, it's a bit of a head scratcher why you'd vote that way.

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Originally Posted by frorider

With so many TRGers here over 40 or 50 yrs old, I know I’m not alone In being around to see the societal transition that resulted in the pervasive ammosexuality / living in fear syndrome. I grew up around guns, just like I grew up around drill presses and TIG welders and chainsaws. It was a tool not a fetish.

My die-hard Republican gun owning grandfather (RIP) would not even recognize today’s NRA or GOP.

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Well, my FIL was an NRA card carrying member for many, many years. He gave that up at least 15 years ago. He recognized that the NRA has turned into a gun lobbying group that is focused more on spending money on Wayne and his wife than on actually promoting gun safety.

The NRA and the Republican party is about sowing fear and paranoia. Besides, there best sales years are when a Dem POTUS & Dem House are in charge. Nothing like spouting how the Dems are going to take your guns away to sell guns and ammo.

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Originally Posted by CarlMega

You are spot on. Because I was participating in this thread, I was processing on this today. About how my life experience and the realities of a shifting world changed my view.

When I was in my 20s, I was for sure more in the 'everyman should learn marksmanship and gun handling' mindset. Being able to protect yourself thru these means was deemed sensible. Honestly, I didn't know shit and, get this... I even belonged to the NRA. First shop I purchased from...(they're always run by Dale Gribble aka Rusty Shakleford).. sold me on that. I remember '5% off your purchase plus they give you insurance'. Sold! Lol - 1 year of embarrassing propaganda begging for money put me off that train forever. Anyway.... mostly target shooting with friends in the woods. The protection aspect never really came to pass....

So I was just recounting... I'm at 50 years. Other than shits n grins while target shooting... I can't think of a personal situation where a gun present was a benefit. Then, I started down memory lane where a fire arm being present made a situation worse

Careless & dangerous handling from others at the range, in the woods, in public - reckless complacency
Drunk ppl being reckless / cavalier while armed
People shooting across trails I was on
People shooting overhead without a backstop or otherwise careless - unconcerned about ppl present
Credible threat to be shot
Someone brandishing in a threatening manner
Domestic violence with partner trying to gain access to weapons
Confrontations escalated with a firearm - threatening & even discharges!
Generally odd encounters with armed people
Gun Suicides

That's a lot of life experience negatives without meaningful positives to justify their place in our society. That over 40 & 50 thing is important here in the conversations; I think most of us at that age stop over considering 'getting ours' and lean into reconciling our life experiences in the hopes of bettering the world for others.

Edit: I almost forgot this one somehow. In highschool, a kid took a class hostage with a rifle until one of the teachers wrestled it away from him. It was big news at the time, no one hurt but prescient to were we are now.

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You’re making an argument for banning people not firearms. I can get behind that idea


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This thread and others like it are representative of the fact that the real reason the GQP and NRA don't want to even discuss reform or even general principles is because all they have is antiquated talking points and circular logic rhetoric. Any legit 2 sided debate is doomed because the facts and evidence (even though they obstruct collecting that evidence as much as possible) overwhelmingly support common sense gun regulation. Every other first world nation with NATIONAL border enforced gun control and sever penalties for all violations is vastly safer than ours.. Guns are more dangerous for the owner and everyone else around them (like cigarettes) and just make the owner feel safer.. But in fact they're more likely to shoot themselves or intentionally or accidentally harm a close friend or relative than any bad guy..

^^ yes.


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Originally Posted by toast2266

My anecdotal experience is that most of the conservatives I know live relatively sheltered lives. They don't travel much. They spend a lot of time with their families. Their sphere of experience is relatively limited, and they're mostly ok with that. A (very conservative) woman I work with has been on an airplane once in her 41 years. Not because she can't afford to fly or is scared of flying or anything like that. She just doesn't have any reason to leave the 200 mile circle that she's lived in her whole life.

Those conservatives trust anecdotal evidence because their world is so small that functioning purely off of personal experiences and the experiences of immediate family works really well. The problems on the news are other people's problems and are the result of some lapse that is not applicable to them, because they are utilizing the family's time tested methods of avoiding problems. And, most likely, they'll succeed in avoiding those problems because their world is small and statistics are in their favor.

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This is so spot on, toast. It’s definitely an anecdotal overstatement but it’s not wrong.

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Originally Posted by ex-powderbroker

lately meaning reagan, 1982?

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No, is a reference to 65 and Civil Rights.

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Originally Posted by TahoeJ

This is so spot on, toast. It’s definitely an anecdotal overstatement but it’s not wrong.

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+1 - complete home run.
We always called it "small town hive mind"

Why don't we just reinstate the draft. People would have "a job," get to learn valuable life lessons, maybe learn some work ethic, get to visit fun places, and learn gun safety.

when everybody’s kids in the army, everybody’s gonna be less interested in going to war.

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Originally Posted by TahoeJ

This is so spot on, toast. It’s definitely an anecdotal overstatement but it’s not wrong.

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+2 Toast fucking nailed it. The vast majority of people I knew (I use past tense purposely) spouting/regurgitating right-wing, gun nut, conspiracy theory shitspeak are:
- small town folks who never left.
- people that had very little experience outside of their tiny group of friends and family.
- people who weren't well travelled.

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Originally Posted by garyfromterrace

+2 Toast fucking nailed it. The vast majority of people I knew (I use past tense purposely) spouting/regurgitating right-wing, gun nut, conspiracy theory shitspeak are:
- small town folks who never left.
- people that had very little experience outside of their tiny group of friends and family.
- people who weren't well travelled.

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add-extremely religious

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Originally Posted by k2skier112

add-extremely religious

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Can't wait to be ruled by under educated, untraveled, closed community people who have belief in the supernatural.

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Originally Posted by CarlMega

Can't wait to be ruled by under educated, untraveled, closed community people who have belief in the supernatural.

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Better start buying up guns to prevent this kind of tyranny.

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Originally Posted by zion zig zag

Better start buying up guns to prevent this kind of tyranny.

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Can't shoot sky fairy daddy.... or can you? Maybe with a proper sized hi-cap magazine. Shall not be infringed!

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Originally Posted by zion zig zag

Better start buying up guns to prevent this kind of tyranny.

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Ya, well, they got a head start. It's no coincidence that the right wingers bought up AR-15s. How many millions of them are in circulation? They were armed on purpose.

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Originally Posted by riser4

Ya, well, they got a head start. It's no coincidence that the right wingers bought up AR-15s. How many millions of them are in circulation? They were armed on purpose.

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Come on, man... I know those right-wingers are a bunch of unhinged nutjobs... but you aren't suggesting that they would go so far as sedition/treason, are you??

:fmicon:

Every time this happens and people are willing to give something the same thing happens.

Instead of focusing on banning assault weapons, or fixing the loopholes in current laws, or maybe write some good new ones, it gets political.

People in positions of power start making really dumb comments, like banning 9mm handguns. And The guy who was willing to give up his AR says to himself “this clown is talking out of his ass, and who knows what the hell the bill finally look like”?

I’m for a lot of changes, I recently explained to a small gun shop owner near me and he reminded me we are arresting felons in possession of guns in St. Louis everyday, and we’re letting them out of jail in 2 weeks.

I think people need to realize, we can write whatever law makes you feel good, but it means shit without enforcement. And that means real $$$. More cops, or you won’t have daily crime investigated, more prisons, etc. it would be gargantuan effort to get control of the crisis. And lots of $$$

Just Limiting new sales is a pathetic joke.


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