Student Loan Forgiveness

Somewhat relevant to some of the tangents in this thread:

https://www.colorado.gov/governor/ne...rsal-preschool

Slow progress... but at least progress.

I haven't read the thread, but, I just (finally) finished paying off my college loans!! (~30k originally)

so you guys should expect to see complete student loan forgiveness for every borrower, sometime tomorrow. You're welcome.

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Originally Posted by Diamond Joe

I haven't read the thread, but, I just (finally) finished paying off my college loans!! (~30k originally)

so you guys should expect to see complete student loan forgiveness for every borrower, sometime tomorrow. You're welcome.

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Well you get an F for not doing your homework. Congrats on getting the loan paid off.

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Originally Posted by Diamond Joe

I haven't read the thread, but, I just (finally) finished paying off my college loans!! (~30k originally)

so you guys should expect to see complete student loan forgiveness for every borrower, sometime tomorrow. You're welcome.

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Regardless, congrats man. Drink a few tonight if you're so inclined. It's not easy to get those things paid off.

Well, it's almost time to start paying again... are the Dems gonna extend this shit?

All the extensions and the waiver for the PSLF program got me to 112 of 120 months for public service forgiveness! So if payments restart I’ll only have a couple months to pay.

Thanks Biden! (For real, the PSLF program has been Uber fucked since it was started, and the waiver is giving lots of people the opportunity to actually use it as intended)

Attachment 424613

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Originally Posted by J. Barron DeJong

Attachment 424613

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Bullish for GameStop shares!

Absolutely insane to forgive student loans without fixing the underlying problem that allowed them to balloon in the first place.

Also insane to make tradespeople and blue collar workers pay for the useless graduate degrees of the aspiring gentry. If loans were going to be forgiven the money should have first come from the endowments of the universities printing useless degrees.

What about people who already paid off? Or paid off their undergrad with Pell but have grad loans?

So is that 125K AGI? Some other measure? For 2021? Or is it for 2022 AGI and people near the cutoff are scrambling to find ways to lower their AGI like switching from Roth to Traditional 401s?

Talk about trying to buy an election... this might backfire though. This is over $321 BILLION dollars during an inflationary period!

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Originally Posted by Kevo

Absolutely insane to forgive student loans without fixing the underlying problem that allowed them to balloon in the first place.

Also insane to make tradespeople and blue collar workers pay for the useless graduate degrees of the aspiring gentry. If loans were going to be forgiven the money should have first come from the endowments of the universities printing useless degrees.

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Former high school soccer teammate heads up consumer lending at a very large bank.

He’s “celebrating” posts on LinkedIn complaining about rising tuition as the underlying problem, when his entire career was made based on how he massively expanded the bank’s student loan book.
It would be hysterical if it wasn’t so tone deaf and sad.

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Originally Posted by Kevo

Absolutely insane to forgive student loans without fixing the underlying problem that allowed them to balloon in the first place.

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$20,000,000 football coaches? Go for it. Good luck. I paid off my loan and I'm not feeling cheated.

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Originally Posted by Kevo

Absolutely insane to forgive student loans without fixing the underlying problem that allowed them to balloon in the first place.

Also insane to make tradespeople and blue collar workers pay for the useless graduate degrees of the aspiring gentry. If loans were going to be forgiven the money should have first come from the endowments of the universities printing useless degrees.

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“The Department is also taking steps to reduce the cost of college for students and their families and hold colleges accountable for raising costs, especially when failing to deliver good outcomes to students. The Department has already re-established the enforcement unit in the Office of Federal Student Aid and recently withdrew authorization for the accreditor that oversaw schools responsible for some of the worst for-profit scandals. The agency will also propose to reinstate and improve a rule to hold career programs accountable for leaving their graduates with unaffordable debt. And the Department is announcing new steps to take action against colleges that have contributed to the student debt crisis. These include publishing an annual watch list of the programs with the worst debt levels in the country and requesting institutional improvement plans from colleges with the most concerning debt outcomes that outline how the college intends to bring down debt levels.”

Full details here:

https://content.govdelivery.com/acco...letins/32970c3

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Originally Posted by summit

What about people who already paid off? Or paid off their undergrad with Pell but have grad loans?

So is that 125K AGI? Some other measure? For 2021? Or is it for 2022 AGI and people near the cutoff are scrambling to find ways to lower their AGI like switching from Roth to Traditional 401s?

Talk about trying to buy an election... this might backfire though. This is over $321 BILLION dollars during an inflationary period!

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Attachment 424622

https://twitter.com/markzandi/status...rF0dpR8XLOD2Yg

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Originally Posted by Kevo

Absolutely insane to forgive student loans without fixing the underlying problem that allowed them to balloon in the first place.

Also insane to make tradespeople and blue collar workers pay for the useless graduate degrees of the aspiring gentry. If loans were going to be forgiven the money should have first come from the endowments of the universities printing useless degrees.

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What if this is a move designed to generate pressure on Congress to implement a more comprehensive fix?

I’m for some sort of student loan forgiveness, but agree we need a comprehensive fix.

OK I'm not an economics genius but how the fuck does servicing trillions of dollars of debt only decrease household spending by $5/mo?

loan forgiveness is no more a gift than any other government aid/stimulus program: Ukraine aid, SNAP benefits, fossil fuel subsidies, farm subsidies, etc

don't fall for the partisanship; stop making it a class war

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Originally Posted by J. Barron DeJong

“The Department is also taking steps to reduce the cost of college for students and their families and hold colleges accountable for raising costs, especially when failing to deliver good outcomes to students. The Department has already re-established the enforcement unit in the Office of Federal Student Aid and recently withdrew authorization for the accreditor that oversaw schools responsible for some of the worst for-profit scandals. The agency will also propose to reinstate and improve a rule to hold career programs accountable for leaving their graduates with unaffordable debt. And the Department is announcing new steps to take action against colleges that have contributed to the student debt crisis. These include publishing an annual watch list of the programs with the worst debt levels in the country and requesting institutional improvement plans from colleges with the most concerning debt outcomes that outline how the college intends to bring down debt levels.”

Full details here:

https://content.govdelivery.com/acco...letins/32970c3

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Oh boy. They're going to publish a watchlist. That'll help.

How much higher is tuition going to be next year than this year? I'd bet it'll be perfectly correlated to how much more the max federal student loan limit per student is in 2023 vs 2022, just like it has been for the past 40+ years.

Attachment 424624

Most inflationary pressure is already baked in because of the payment pause, anyway.

Saying "I paid my loans so why should we forgive them," or, "I don't have any loans so we shouldn't forgive them," is like saying "I survived cancer so why should we make better treatments."

Looks like I will get my last couple of Ks of loans forgiven. I was lucky and didn't have to take many loans out, and was able to pay mine down fairly quickly (10 years, lol), but I am not mad about that. I think they should go even further.

I think the bigger issues can't be addressed through an EO and would have to be legislative, so hopefully this will start a process of overhauling secondary ed.

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Originally Posted by summit

OK I'm not an economics genius but how the fuck does servicing trillions of dollars of debt only decrease household spending by $5/mo?

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Im not an economic genius either, but that guy is, and he runs the most comprehensive private economic modeling around, so I trust his analysis.

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Originally Posted by Kevo

Oh boy. They're going to publish a watchlist. That'll help.

How much higher is tuition going to be next year than this year? I'd bet it'll be perfectly correlated to how much more the max federal student loan limit per student is in 2023 vs 2022, just like it has been for the past 40+ years.

Attachment 424624

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There's a connection, obviously, but you do see how those lines cross each other and don't have the same average slope, right?

More description of the plan and it’s goals here:

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-...-need-it-most/

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Originally Posted by Supermoon

Saying "I paid my loans so why should we forgive them," or, "I don't have any loans so we shouldn't forgive them," is like saying "I survived cancer so why should we make better treatments."

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You actually think that is a valid comparison? :rolleyes2:nonono2:

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Originally Posted by summit

OK I'm not an economics genius but how the fuck does servicing trillions of dollars of debt only decrease household spending by $5/mo?

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Without checking his work I'm going with: more households than borrowers and cutting the principle by some finite number less than $20k only brings down borrowers' monthly payments by whatever the monthly payment was on that. If 10% of households save $50/month....

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Originally Posted by summit

You actually think that is a valid comparison? :rolleyes2:nonono2:

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It’s not apples to apples, but in the same vein

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Originally Posted by ::: :::

loan forgiveness is no more a gift than any other government aid/stimulus program: Ukraine aid, SNAP benefits, fossil fuel subsidies, farm subsidies, etc

don't fall for the partisanship; stop making it a class war

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this.

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Originally Posted by Supermoon

Most inflationary pressure is already baked in because of the payment pause, anyway.

Saying "I paid my loans so why should we forgive them," or, "I don't have any loans so we shouldn't forgive them," is like saying "I survived cancer so why should we make better treatments."

Looks like I will get my last couple of Ks of loans forgiven. I was lucky and didn't have to take many loans out, and was able to pay mine down fairly quickly (10 years, lol), but I am not mad about that. I think they should go even further.

I think the bigger issues can't be addressed through an EO and would have to be legislative, so hopefully this will start a process of overhauling secondary ed.

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and this.

And if you don't like the cancer analogy, how about "I have never needed welfare and never will because I made good choices, so we shouldn't have a welfare system."

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Originally Posted by Supermoon

It’s not apples to apples, but in the same vein

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No it fucking isn't. Tell that to my 33 year old friend and his wife who is dying of cancer right now.

You don't choose cancer.

You do choose student loans.

Fuck your comparison.

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Originally Posted by Danno

And if you don't like the cancer analogy, how about "I have never needed welfare and never will because I made good choices, so we shouldn't have a welfare system."

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That's far less offensive, but still a poor analogy.

This is like "if you happen to be on welfare this week, you get an extra $2000. But if you were on welfare last week, or next week, too bad, because no reason, and who care about what is causing people to be on welfare."

People on welfare didn't usually choose to be on welfare.

People paying student debt are likely to have a degree and thus they tend to make more than, and be on welfare less than, people who didn't go to college.

Welfare is progressive. This is regressive without actually solving the underlying problem.

Just curious?…..

-is a Pell Grant the same as a Stafford Loan?….or Stafford would only be $10,000?/ or nothing at all.

-Are students currently in college that have current Stafford loans eligible for this plan? Or is this plan only for people who already have graduated?

-The Forgiveness is if the “family” (combined) income is less than 125,000?….or is it that the individual student is earning less than $125,000?

Sorry….Lots of questions….

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Originally Posted by J. Barron DeJong

Im not an economic genius either, but that guy is, and he runs the most comprehensive private economic modeling around, so I trust his analysis.

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Another economic genius weighing in:

Attachment 424627

https://twitter.com/paulkrugman/stat...rF0dpR8XLOD2Yg

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Originally Posted by J. Barron DeJong

Another economic genius weighing in:

Attachment 424627

https://twitter.com/paulkrugman/stat...rF0dpR8XLOD2Yg

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"Don't worry: if it causes inflation the Fed can just raise interest rates even more because it is like totally under control right now with no consequences from the interest rates!"

Remind me who inflation fucks first? Right. The poorest take it the hardest.

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Originally Posted by summit

That's far less offensive, but still a poor analogy.

This is like "if you happen to be on welfare this week, you get an extra $2000. But if you were on welfare last week, or next week, too bad, because no reason, and who care about what is causing people to be on welfare."

People on welfare didn't usually choose to be on welfare.

People paying student debt are likely to have a degree and thus they tend to make more than, and be on welfare less than, people who didn't go to college.

Welfare is progressive. This is regressive without actually solving the underlying problem.

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Attachment 424630

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Originally Posted by jono

There's a connection, obviously, but you do see how those lines cross each other and don't have the same average slope, right?

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I should have said "strongly correlated", but you got the idea.

RE: The cancer analogy- if the entity with the press release about the new treatment for cancer is also one of the primary entities causing cancer, celebrating said new treatment is a bit short sighted, no?

I have no problem with debt forgiveness for people who were taken advantage of. I have a major concern with where the funding for said forgiveness comes from and how the responsible parties will be held accountable to change their practices going forward.

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Originally Posted by summit

"Don't worry: if it causes inflation the Fed can just raise interest rates even more because it is like totally under control right now with no consequences from the interest rates!"

Remind me who inflation fucks first? Right. The poorest take it the hardest.

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Inflation is flat right now.

The primary point is that $200B over several years just isn’t that much compared to the size of the US economy.

Life isn’t fair summit.

There is no perfect solution.

FWIW, I don’t have dog in this fight. I went to college in Canada, where/when it was affordable and didn’t take out loans.

I do have kids that will most likely go to college, but not for a decade, so getting costs under control going forward is much more relevant for me.

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Originally Posted by J. Barron DeJong

Inflation is flat right now.

The primary point is that $200B over several years just isn’t that much compared to the size of the US economy.

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200B is his preferred number.

Reuters said $321B at least.

That is all public money. Is that where it should be spent?

Inflation is flat? "Don't piss on me and tell me it's rain." Inflation is high as fuck. Yea last glance it wasn't getting even worse, yay! Let's celebrate by spending $321B of taxpayer money to benefit a certain subset of the middle and upper class (but not too upper class)!" Free money! Vote in November!

For clarity, I'm getting $10k of debt cancelled, maybe $20k if my undergrad pell grants qualify me for 20k fed grad loans cancellation, and my employer pays the rest tax free. So this isn't a jealousy thing. I just don't think it is right.

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Originally Posted by BC.

Just curious?…..

-is a Pell Grant the same as a Stafford Loan?….or Stafford would only be $10,000?/ or nothing at all.

-Are students currently in college that have current Stafford loans eligible for this plan? Or is this plan only for people who already have graduated?

-The Forgiveness is if the “family” (combined) income is less than 125,000?….or is it that the individual student is earning less than $125,000?

Sorry….Lots of questions….

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Pell Grant is not the same as Stanford loan. Sounds like Stafford loan would be subject to the $10k limit.

Income limit is $125k for an individual, or $250k for married couple. Should apply to the student borrower, not the family of the student, I believe.

No idea if current students are eligible.

In June, Colorado Senator Bennet summed it up nicely.
We can think bigger.

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Originally Posted by hatchgreenchile

In June, Colorado Senator Bennet summed it up nicely.
We can think bigger.

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total agreement

I would add though that don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good. We give away so much goddam money to corporations, to banks, to factory farms, etc, yet THIS is what gets people up in arms.