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I had the g3 ions, skied on them about 100 days, on vwerks Katanas.
They developed a nasty play in the toes, where the toes would move side to side, about 5-10 degrees
Caused problem skinning.
Also a couple of releases when i hit small rocks, that didn't feel like the binding should release.
The toe springs also got progressively weaker.
Switched to Salomon mtn, and I'm happy with them.
Lighter, bomber and better retention.
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Another thing I forgot to mention is the mount. We shouldn't overlook heel alignment and its influence on toe retention.Quote:
Originally Posted by I've seen black diamonds!
One of my biggest bitches is the fact that (in my experience), only Fritchi counterbores their toe holes.
Every else countersinks them which draws the toe piece back toward the center of the drilled holes.
... Thom
So ... anyone play with the Kreuzspitz GTs? 3 years in production ought to be enough time to shake out the bugs?
The new toe design of the ATKs ultimately drove me to the Plums. I wanted to give ATK another year on the market.
Even though the Guides come in at 682 grams/pair, they check all of the other boxes (adjustable lateral & vertical release is non-negotiable for me).
I'm not a fan of paying to be a beta tester ;-)
... Thom
I've had first gen ion's for 3 seasons and now atk freerider 14 2.0 for two seasons. Around 70 days per season. Never had any prerealese problems with either. Atk's have developed some play on heel towers, not bad yet. Going to ski them at least one more season. I'm 105kg and ski some what fast in mostly shitty snow, so they have seen some torque and stress.Quote:
Originally Posted by HukuTa_KydecHuk
Lähetetty minun FIG-LX1 laitteesta Tapatalkilla
I preordered xenics
There I go ... pondering violating my operating principle of not being a paying beta tester.Quote:
Originally Posted by margotron
[edit] If this fellow (link, below) is right, the single position riser is a touch higher than many medium risers, at 64mm above the ski. I think I could live with that, but the unknown at the moment is the toe pin height above the ski (in order to do an apples to apples comparison of the delta).
https://www.telemark-pyrenees.com/fr...10-test-report
In case the following is useful, here's skimo's compiled list of riser heights and riser deltas. Note that when I measure my Plum Guides, I get the same heights (within .5mm) but my delta numbers vary considerably. I'm not sure they're measuring the way they say they are. Anyhow, this link might inform your thinking:
https://skimo.co/binding-riser-heights
... Thom
User guide for ATK Crest says only for skis up to 100mm wide. Seems like this is super conservative but your thoughts? Thinking about putting it on my 96mm Camox Freebirds with inserts and then doing multi-binding inserts on some Anima Freebirds or BentChet120 for deep BC days only. Am I asking for trouble going wider with this binding?
Also considering the Xenic and that has no stated width limitations. Thoughts on choosing between these? Currently have ION LT12 (never skied them yet) and Dynafit Rad ST.
ETA: I’m an idiot. The new Crest 10 comes with brakes up to 120mm so obviously they’re confident in them handling wide skis. The old one was limited to brakes of 97mm. Appears no difference other than brakes
So l was really big on the Crests, and when it came time to pull the trigger last Spring, I went with tried and true Plum Guides.
What sketched me out was ATK's new monolink toe design, initially because it was a first year design - albeit from a company with a good track record.
Staring at the monolink toe over the past few weeks, I have more doubts and I have absolutely NO IDEA if they're well founded.
My thinking is that toe pieces experience shocks and that a spring on the wing serves to mitigate those shocks. So, will the fixed wing suffer metal fatigue over time?
I realize that these are touring bindings and won't suffer the abuse of an alpine binding, but this looks like an unnecessary introduction of a weak point for no reason other than to save a few grams.
I'm probably making too much out of this, but I can't get it out of my head.
... Thom
Monolink may help prevent pre-releases, if placed on the inside. That side doesn’t move right?
Yeah, it seems as if it would work like Dynafit Power Towers. I'm not sure if the toes are mirror imaged however.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lindahl
[edit]@Summit is the only one I'm aware of on this thread who has ATKs with monolink toes (Crests), so he might report on this (mirror image).[/edit]
They use 7075 alloy which his good stuff, so maybe my fears of a stress crack are totally unfounded.
... Thom
Different than power towers. They literally don’t move when whacked hard on one side as far as I know.Quote:
Originally Posted by galibier_numero_un
Should be mirror imaged. The ones I’m specifically familiar with and talking about are on these:
https://www.atkbindings.com/it/prodo...p-vertical-it/
The rolling heel pins are new this year and a really cool innovation.
Agree.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lindahl
They have a really nice range of bindings.
Both pin arms rotate/move. Bindings are going on gf’s wildcat tour 108s. Why would you sell a binding with a 120mm brake option and then print that they are only for skis 97mm and under in your manual? Probably just worried about retention, the mount pattern on both the toe and heel are not the widest. I think it’s okay.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...3659ec74ab.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...e31cde0e56.jpg
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Keep us posted. I am going back to ATK or trying Salomon MTN this season.Quote:
Originally Posted by SkiersLeft
This raises my confidence level (given that my concerns were likely unfounded in the first place :rolleyes:).Quote:
Originally Posted by SkiersLeft
... Thom
Thinking about mounting Salomon MTNs on a pair of Lotus 138 hybrids. I don't have access to a spec that would say whether or not it can handle the stress of turning (and kick turning) a ski that wide. Is this a foolish endeavor?
I do have a set of Dynafits that were pretty much made for this ski, but since it's the 2600g Hybrid, it would be nice to be able to shave off the 350g per leg.
Thanks a ton for the photos- I wasn't sure from the stock photos where the pivot point was- I'm glad it's dead center, it initially looked to be offset to me. Removing the extra springs actually reduces the number of moving parts which could, in theory, make the binding less prone to failure. I'm pretty sold on these bindings. Also the red matches my red skis and should get me at least a little more speed up and down the hill.Quote:
Originally Posted by SkiersLeft
I think last years' (first gen) version Crest Race was only offered up to 97mm (that's the user manual I was reading), but the new Crest 10 (same other than name and brake sizes) appears to have opened up to new widths.
I have been looking hard at the Xenics as well but the horizontal toe release really weirds me out. I'd rather stick with the tried and true toe geometry, as I've never experienced toe prerelease (I'm not hucking cliffs or skiing Mach 20 down ice with tech binders like you fucking maniacs).
Funny, my initial reaction to the monolink toe was also positive (fewer parts). Then, I went into my "special place" and FUD crept in. We're good now ;-)Quote:
Originally Posted by Falcon3
In case you missed it, the Xenic doesn't release at the toe. There is some sort of horizontal carriage, however. Yeah, it's an unproven design. If anyone can get it right on the first try, it's Fritschi.
... Thom
The mtn are very solid.Quote:
Originally Posted by lucknau
I have them on my 112 skis with absolutely no problems.
I would epoxy the toe piece screws.
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I love my MTN's aside from the crampon clip business, but looking at ATK stuff has me very impressed. Build quality looks tremendous, and 5-10 RV in a package under 300 grams blows my mind. Full metal toe lever also, unlike MTN. It's a good time to be alive and touring.
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Atk mono link toe design has been used for 3 to 4 years already in their race bindings. (Maybe even longer)
Most ATK designs are very proven and tested. Even when it is a new model such as crest it is truly just a Trofeo toe, which is the same design as the race toe with less metal removed to make it cheaper and heavier which has been in use for years, plus the RT heelpiece which is even older with a new brake and adjustment plate
ATK seems to make mostly sensible subtle upgrades every year with the old models still available. Rock solid, no clicking or slop as well.
I really like the heel riser flaps that cover the heel pins so you can tour and transition without turning the towers. I think the MTN has that as well. Kind of a necessity for me now.Quote:
Originally Posted by riff
Center of pins seem to sit ~4.75cm above the ski.Quote:
Originally Posted by galibier_numero_un
Riser height off the ski seems ~.75cm higher than the low riser on the MTN. Definitely closer to the low rise than the high rise.
Toe pins are about 1-2mm higher.
MTN on Lotus 138. Can't wait to get out there and given a go.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...1dd4a0c139.jpg
Nice, you will like turn 3
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I meant. You will like them
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I bet the first 2 turns are good too. FYI you can go without that plastic plate under the heel, as long as the skis are thick enough.
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I dropped the plastic plate too, gets me closer to that magic ramp/delta sweet spot.
I felt a little forward last spring.
I might experimentally add a couple mm under the toe as well.
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for those of you with MTN/Backland binders - when mounted on the line, how much fore/aft adjustment is there respectively? The total is 30mm yes, but is it like the Shifts where the majority of the adjustment range is aft?
I am thinking about replacing Tectons on a pair skis with MTNs to save weight, and there is a bit of an overlap issue in the rear. As such I would need to mount the rear binding approx one cm further back and adjust the heel forward, or about two centimeters forward and adjust the heel back. I am just curious which is the better option with the MTN/backland.
The same issue was resolve by going forward with Shifts, so that might be the required medicine here as well.
Thanks in advance for any and all help. :)
It's in the middle so equal fore/aft. I did the same to avoid a conflict, mounted the heel 5mm forward and adjusted it back. I'll try and get a photo later if it helpsQuote:
Originally Posted by kid-kapow
Attachment 298352
I recently remounted mtns into tecton pattern.
I reused the front two holes and did hardwood dowels with epoxy, and predrilled pretty nearby for the rear holes. Gflex epoxy for all holes.
Ymmv!
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thank you both - that was very helpful - TGR delivers yet again :)
It sounds like mounting back and adjusting forward is the way to go then. Will test mount on a piece of wood first, then start drilling into the v werks fekkers ;)
Slight threadjack - what made you go from tecton to mtn on those skis? Or did you buy them w holesQuote:
Originally Posted by riff
I got frustrated with the Tectons a bit; I had a series of troubles going from tour mode to skiing, mostly from snow/ice packing into the fairly complicated heel. I had issues with the ski crampons also. For closer to 50/50 use they'd be fine, but I didn't trust them or want to haul them on longer tours. The tectons were my only tour setup for a bit last year, which coincided with a string of bigger project style tours, so they felt pretty heavy by the end. After a few outings this fall I remembered and went simple. Mtns definitely don't ski as powerfully, but kill it for simple and reliable. So far.
Resort kit is all CAST, touring kit is all mtn; I took out the middle ground. Simplifies decisions at the truck in the morning too.
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Cool. Thanks for the heads up. I removed the plates. I already wasn't loving the ramp angle of those boots, so that'll help a bit.Quote:
Originally Posted by caulfield
Have you used crampons with the MTNs yet? What's the deal with them? Someone mentioned them recently and I got the sense that they were inconvenient in some way.Quote:
Originally Posted by riff
Yup, I brought it up a ways back.
They use regular dynafit style crampons, but salomon supplies a little plastic clip that you pop on the center of the axle to hold it, instead of the clip being built into the binding base. Definitely a hassle. But I prefer the dynafit crampons in general, so It's working out ok, I'm just trying to get more clips from Salomon, because I will drop them eventually.
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without looking at mine, i assume you can't remove the plate with the brakes version
pic added above
Yeah, the plate is part of the brake assembly, it looks like, right?Quote:
Originally Posted by oetk2