I ever tell you about the time I did GOMAD for a month on a bet? I did put on 15 pounds but it turns out some of that may have been impacted poo.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dantheman
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I ever tell you about the time I did GOMAD for a month on a bet? I did put on 15 pounds but it turns out some of that may have been impacted poo.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dantheman
I remember you posting about that, but didn't know it was done on a bet. I threw up in my mouth a little just thinking about doing it for a day.
Dudes everywhere thinking they're going to accidentally turn in to Arnold if they walk in to a weight room.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dantheman
As someone who doesn't get paid to be in shape, I see a lot of value in carrying an extra 10lb of muscle and potentially being slightly slower on the uphills in exchange for quality of life improvements.
Just bought a standing desk for the first time. Training complete!
From what I've seen with weight room toolbags, that is their goal.Quote:
Originally Posted by bean
Ease into it.Quote:
Originally Posted by muted reborn
There's definitely plenty of those guys. I lift at home for a reason. Well, for several reasons, but that's a big one. Spending hours working out just to flex on stage in your underwear or get Instagram likes is baffling. The bottom line though is that at least 95% of people who lift weights will never have a FFMI above 23-24 without steroids no matter what they do. The <5% that do achieve that without gear are genetic outliers who also dedicate their entire waking lives to lifting and eating.Quote:
Originally Posted by jackstraw
^yeah, I'm lucky. We have a small gym and shower at my office. I've never belonged to a gym but we all know the type.
https://youtu.be/q7gzmoqmL7g
^This. Just know that any tissue level changes will be 12-14 weeks, so stay the course & work the diet.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dantheman
One of the concepts I ask of my clients is to accurately assess their baseline & then slightly try to exceed it on a routine basis.
Got through the 4th session of mini leg blasters. Started w 5 sets, up to 9 now. Kind of weak on the split jumps cause I'm old, fat and slow. Still around 7 weeks to go, probably won't complete the 10 sets of full leg blasters until mid-Dec.
See above. If you are exceeding your baseline status on a regular basis with anything athletic, that's a win. If you make it habitual, all the better. Good luck!Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopeless Sinner
Drop one rep off the others and add two to the split jumps. Once that feels fine go back to equal reps.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopeless Sinner
This series with John Leffler from Deb Armstrong is worth checking out...
https://youtu.be/KvlcM9l0c8g
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Just got an ad on Instagram for a John Collison-directed workout via the Fit! app. Seems intriguing - anyone tried it or have experience with the Fit! app?
App
John's 8-week Routine
Thanks, 3x week, until Thanksgiving, then 2x week.Quote:
Originally Posted by iriponsnow
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2FUNKY
I have the idea, but my split jumps are pretty fake - still do more? Will work on doing a more taxing split jump in any case. (Form on the other 3 is good.)
Got up to 10x mini so added full blasters.
Roughly session #12 now at 2 full blasters and 5 minis. 1-5-1 Rough w a mask on.
Got double promoted at work (one was worked for, immediately followed by the boss leaving and me being the only person even loosly qualified to take on that role), and then had a kid a few weeks back. I needed to be extra efficient with my time, so i finally got a home gym setup. It had always been a dream and just makes sense. Due to lack of sleep and general stress ive dropped volume down pretty far and just get in six 30 min workouts per week (P/P/L split)...back to the very basics, only focusing on progressing squats, everything else focused on maintaining. No deadlifts as my CNS recovery is compromised, so only RDLs for hinge pattern. In November ill start adding in leg blasters as actual training at the end of the leg sessions, but for now i just do two mini blasters as a warmup on leg day.
whatever i have done in years past though, Alpental still beats me the fuck down for first 4-5 days skiing until i ski myself into shape. There is just nothing like forcing your muscles to repeatedly react at max effort in life/limb threatening situations.
This post has been circling around in the back of my brain since it was posted. I'm not sure that being able to squat 2x BW for six reps would actually make you a better skier or make you better at stomping big airs than being able to squat 2x BW for 1-2 reps. Skiing in general, and stomping big airs in particular, is much more about power than pure strength. Power has a time component that strength does not. Stomping a big air not only requires the ability to produce a force equal to some unknown multiple of your BW (and to be able to resist the rotational force created by landing on a inclined plane, but that's a different discussion), but to do it in a very narrow sub-second window of time.Quote:
Originally Posted by EWG
Here's a video of elite gymnast Carl Paoli coaching Jason Khalipa on how to do a standing backflip. One thing he mentions is that speed lifts like cleans and snatches are much better predictors of whether he can teach someone to do a standing backflip than pure strength lifts like the squat. I think the same applies to skiing and stompability especially. Goes from around 6:00-9:00:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HwSlZ2WMrx0
This is a great conversation. That said, I'll bet no one besides us is gonna geek out on it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dantheman
There's a kinetic and dexterity component to speed lifts which, I agree, is a big part of pure power generated for a single rep. However, the current professional trainer rule of thumb is that it really is pure strength. For example, this article and quote: https://www.stack.com/a/how-your-dea...ke-you-faster/
“I can determine with 99.7 percent accuracy what your 40-Yard Dash time is based on your strength-to-weight ratio,” declares Ryan Flaherty, CEO of Prolific Athletes (Carlsbad, California) and trainer to elite athletes such as Marcus Mariota and Russell Wilson.
But I'm not sure how transferable that is to non-trained athletes (normal people) who haven't been coached on proper technique. In other words, if you don't know how to sprint, then a lot of that force is wasted.
All that training philosophy is built on 1 rep maxes, however, so your point probably remains - doesn't matter if you can squat 360 once or six times, if that's your max, that's your max. Having said that, if you can squat it 6 times your max should be much higher.
Interesting that deadlift is supposed to be 2x for NCAA athletes.
I will say that in covid I've been squatting again, and last season was night and day for me skiing, especially in tight, off balance, quick technical spots and in flat out speed runs. Not to mention landings. The extra strength was massive for control.
This is also kind of interesting for different lift standards:
https://www.livestrong.com/article/3...rage-man-lift/
Th other benefit of being able to squat 370 for 6 vs for 2 is that you have essentially gotten in better endurance shape by doing so (assuming body weight and other muscles equal). If you only have to put out 85% effort to squat 370 once vs having to put out +95% effort who is gonna have fresher legs for the next big impact/landing?
Frankly, its pretty easy and quick to get in good (not world class) cardio/endurance shape. It takes much much longer to achieve high levels of strength (months to years) than it does to gain high levels of endurance (weeks)... and being strong carries over into the endurance aspect as described above. Endurance does diddly for pure top-end strength. Yes, the exceptions are the tail ends of the spectrum for both.
In terms of power, there are a number of studies out there showing that plyometric exercises have minimal benefit until a high level of baseline strength is achieved first as strength is the limiting factor instead of neural muscle response time, and without the baseline stength level plyometrics beat the shit out of your joints.
Super interesting article, thanks. He says in the article that strength trumps technique by a large margin. But, that's for sprint speed which is a more natural movement. For something entirely unnatural like skiing I would think technique plays a larger role.Quote:
Originally Posted by EWG
For sure. If your 6RM is 2x BW your 1RM is probably at least 2.5x BW. For men at least, my understanding is that it's a bit different for women.Quote:
Originally Posted by EWG
Indeed. I couldn't have played at the community college level, but I pulled 2x BW for a triple last week and hadn't DL'ed in two months. Hellooo ego boost!Quote:
Originally Posted by EWG
I don't doubt that. All I'm saying is that there is probably a point of diminishing returns. Where that point lies is hard to say, and most recreational athletes will probably never reach it, myself very much included. But, it's probably worth doing some fast lifts as well. Just something basic like power cleans that doesn't require bumpers and pro coaching. I can't help but wonder if this is also part of the reason that the split jumps and squat jumps in LBs are part of the reason they're so effective.Quote:
Originally Posted by EWG
The WRs in the lighter weight classes are the ones that blow my mind the most. C&J'ing 375 lbs while weighing 56 kilos is completely bananas.Quote:
Originally Posted by EWG
Intuitively, this makes sense. On the ground I think it's more complicated. It's hard to overstate how beastly squatting 2x BW for 6 reps really is. Unless you're a genetic outlier there's a level of commitment required to get there that probably doesn't directly translate to much better skiing compared to the guy who can do it for a double.Quote:
Originally Posted by californiagrown
eta: If you go to the ExRx link in the second article EWG linked to (https://exrx.net/Testing/WeightLifting/SquatStandards) the "Elite" standards are ~2.7x BW. 2x BW for six reps probably means your 1RM is close to or above the "Elite" level.
I have video of AC squatting 250 at a BW of ~160. That's the "Elite" level for women, which is pretty cool.
Strength gains also come really fast at the novice level. Equivalently high levels of endurance and strength are both long-term commitments.Quote:
Originally Posted by californiagrown
FWIW the stronger you get the more nuerally adapted you are to higher end percentages and the difference between your 1 rep max and say 6 rep max becomes much smaller (percentage wise) than that of an intermediate of beginner. I disagree that 2x BW squats by 6 is "elite". far from it actually. Take a 180lb person, if you plug their 2.7bw max into a simple 5x5 program calculator, 360lbs x5 is one of the warmup sets. 420x5 is the workset for a 486 1-rep max.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dantheman
Not to knock that high level of strength at all (6 reps of 2xBW is strong, no doubt), but saying that is elite strength is like saying being able to ski a black diamond trail in control means you are an elite skier. As for translating to skiing, in most sports, being able to have the strength to make up for moments of poor technique is always a benefit. And having the strength to leverage improved technique is obviously better.
I wouldnt consider someone who just got through their newbie gains period to have a "high level of strength". Maybe my perception of what constitutes high levels of strength vs what high levels of endurance is skewed? i think running a 10k in 45 minutes would constitute high levels of endurance for example.
I think you're way off here. While it may not be "elite" 2x BW for 6 is beastly AF by any measure. I can say with absolute certainty I'll never get there. If there's a single poster on this forum that can do/has done it I'll be surprised. Maybe XavierD, that guy has posted some pretty impressive lifts before.Quote:
Originally Posted by californiagrown
A 45-minute 10k is respectable but not "high level" by a long shot. You said it was possible to achieve high levels of endurance in "weeks."Quote:
Originally Posted by californiagrown
Use a general program calculator to figure out how 6RM translates to a 1RM. And then take into account that at greater multiples of BW an individual is able to hit reps at higher percentages than someone lifting at lower multiples of BW.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dantheman
the second part is where our difference is- what you see as "high level" endurance and "high level" strength, vs where i see it. I have no doubt i could run a 45 min 10k in 8 weeks or less. I think that would be "advanced", certainly not elite.
"Intermediate" for a 160 lb 35 y.o. male per https://runninglevel.com/Quote:
Originally Posted by californiagrown
I think the definition of Elite matters here. An elite weightlifter will squat a hell of a lot more than an elite 10,000 meter runner.
I assume an elite skier is in the middle. My college kid is a fairly committed freeskier - big jumps, lots of vertical, etc. His 1 rep max is over 2x bw - not sure by how much. Seems kinda right for an elite freeskier, but that's just my perception.
I've run all of 50 miles in 2021 and I'm pretty sure I could go run a sub-45 10km this afternoon. I've also been lifting for years and a 2.7x BW squat is something I would never dream of. I don't do 2x even but mostly because I'm getting old and heavy squats don't meet my risk/reward threshold, I'm a lot happier in the ~1.6x range at high reps, I'm sure if I dropped some cardio and focused on lifting I'd get to 2x pretty quickly but I don't see the benefit. I also don't ski that fast or jump off of things so that might play in to it.
Regardless, pick up some heavy things a few times a week, and do some cardio that you enjoy a few times a week, consistently, and don't be fat, and you'll be in the top 1% of the population in terms of fitness pretty easily.
Well, yeah, and I'm certainly not arguing that having a fast 10k time will make you a better skier. But, the idea that you could take a novice/beginner level person and train them to "high level" endurance in 8 weeks, or that a 45-min 10k is "high-level," is just silly and I had to push back on that.Quote:
Originally Posted by EWG
Agreed that your kid is probably in the sweet spot. It would be super interesting to know what the FWT field's 1RMs are.
Gen pop is a terrifyingly low bar. In polls 25% of people say they get zero exercise, and another 25% say they get 0-30 minutes per week, which probably means most of those people actually get zero, and the ones that are actually >0 probably just walk around the block or something.Quote:
Originally Posted by bean
It really is bad. This was several years ago, I can only imagine it's gotten worse since then.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dantheman
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/obese-w...-a-year-study/Quote:
A surprising new study shows that obese U.S. men get less than four hours of vigorous exercise a year, while obese American women partake in only one hour annually.
Yeah, it really would.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dantheman
Bean, to be fair, it sounds like you do a fair bit (a lot?) of biking though, right? If you've got that endurance, it doesn't translate too badly to running. I was a mediocre rider on our cycling team in undergrad and could run a 12 minute two-mile run without much running at all. (Though I would still argue that a time like that is [I} not [/I] "high-level" endurance.Quote:
Originally Posted by bean
It doesn't answer that intriguing statement, but MTI (Mountain Tactical Institute) - Rob Shaul's gym - does have "Strength Standards" based on what he/his athletes are able to perform as a benchmark. (Formatting is easier on the website - see link below)Quote:
Originally Posted by Dantheman
I believe those are 1 rep maxes. More here and a lot more detail/explanation here. While I'm sure those are not ironclad, it seems like a useful training benchmark.Quote:
LIFT MEN WOMEN
Front Squat 1.25x BW 1.0x BW
Hinge Lift 1.75x BW 1.25xBW
Bench Press 1.25xBW .9xBW
Push Press 1.10x BW .7xBW
Hang Squat Clean 1.1x BW .9xBW
Update, btw. I am starting on the 30min/day drylands program with a slow ramp up - the Quadzilla complex is intense! - in addition to ~5 days a week of running.Quote:
Originally Posted by fool
I do a little bike training though it’s almost all indoors these days, if it means anything my CTL is under 35. I also used to be a pretty serious runner so I’m probably not a fair comparison to most.Quote:
Originally Posted by fool
Thanks for that. Relatively high numbers but totally achievable for most people. Interesting choice of lifts. Squat cleans really require bumpers and real coaching.Quote:
Originally Posted by fool
I do about 99% of my pull ups "grease the groove"-style at work. I hadn't gone for a max set in years but those MTI links inspired me to do one. Got 22, pretty OK with that.
A 6RM of 2xBW is strong if you’re not in strength sports or an actual competitive D1/Pro in Football/Rugby. It’s pretty well past the point of diminishing returns for most other athletes. You’ll be putting out a ton of time and energy getting there which could probably be better spent doing something else, like your actual sport. Remember the best exercise for making you a better skier is… skiing. I honestly doubt many if any of us here have the technical ability to get to the point where we can actually recruit the equivalent output while skiing. If your leg strength is holding your skiing back, sure chase that shit, but make sure the time and energy you spend squating and recovering isn’t getting in the way of you skiing or doing other more sport specific training. If you’re just lifting because it’s fun or to be strong as fuck knock yourself out.
That said, if it’s really not that impressive if you are in a strength sport, it’s a reasonably attainable goal for most folks with some sort of strength adaptations. A 45min 10k is maybe even more attainable for most folks. Doing both in the same 60 minutes sounds like a pretty fun goal though. I’m not an athlete. Kinda like the 5x500 mile/DL time and weight combo. Basically you have to be exceptionally moderate at both. I kinda like the 10k because it’s a nasty mid distance combo of raw endurance capacity and lactate push.
Leg extensions remain a valuable exercise for building size and strength in the quad while giving the back, hips, and ankles an break.
Made it to 4 full leg blasters Friday w full attention paid to the quality of split jumps. Still hoping to get to 10 sets by Thanksgiving.
Leg extensions are hard on the knees.Quote:
Originally Posted by XavierD
Best way to do them :
Put a lighter weight, lift it with both legs, then lower it with one leg only. That's one rep.
This only works the eccentric.
Or lift with both legs, lower with one, but only 30 degrees from horizontal.
This avoids the extreme stress you put on the knee when lifting from a 90 degree knee angle.
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Umm... this view of any exercise as a binary good/bad is quite dated & you would be well served consulting a S&C professional for contemporary guidance.Quote:
Originally Posted by rod9301
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Maybe it's just me.
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Most machines allow you to change the starting position of your legs. I start at much more than 90 degrees.Quote:
Originally Posted by rod9301
And I find they don't hurt my knees. In fact, the reason I do them is because I have a bad knee and kneecap pain and I'm trying to focus hard in strengthening the medial head of my quads to help with that. For that goal, only the last bit of the extension to 180 degrees is useful so starting at more than 90 is good.
Double post... sorry.