Who makes the perfect softshell ski pants??

I always figured soft shell allowed me to skip leg vents and that added weight. I gave older black arc teryx gamma's. Functiinally they seem good. The velcro still works on the cargo pockets but i wish they were zippered.
I have a pair of Jones high sierra soft shell pants showing up today. No cargo pockets but they have 2 rear zippered pockets and i wanted a lighter color for spring. Dirt cheap right now on the last hunt. With the further 25% off they have right now they were 160 cad and free ship. Im really impressed with the quality and design of the Jones surf parka, and also a smokin deal on the last hunt. I sold a couple pairs of older pants to try the jones pants. Ill update after i try them

Edit: i like them. Maybe ever so slightly thicker soft shell than my older arc t gamma's but similar thickness , which is fairly light and about tge same thickness of a patagonia ready mix light soft shell. They have better stretch to them. Waist is yrue to size and inseam is close but i'd say 3/4 inch shorter than listed. Nice deep front pockets ate ez to get into. Definitely less baggy than my gamma's. Older gammas are baggy. The fit reminds me a bit of the classic mammut soft shell pants from the 90's with maybe a touch more shape, wider elastic cuff and inside cuff protection patch. Should be good.

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Originally Posted by sf

Dynafit Radical anyone?

Comments regarding fit and features appreciated

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dynafit has kinda overloaded that name lately, assume you mean this year's "radical softshell?"

No experience with that one, but I ordered both "radical infinium hybrid" and "radical 2 gtx" last year. Returned the gtx, kept the hybrid. They fit differently enough that I'm not sure my observations are useful at all, but here you go.

I'm 5'11"/170, usually medium and 32x30. Was replacing old arc procline AR which were pretty much perfect for me. I toured with them almost all the time, unless it was raining, or June/July.

hybrid radical: fit is similar, good room in the butt/thighs, without being baggy. Cuffs fit well over boots and have a zipper in the back. Infinium might just be a new name for windstopper, I don't really know. It's stretchier and feels less durable, less water-resistant than the arcs but I haven't put it through all its paces yet. I did some June volcano skiing in them and they breathed well for that. Side vents are fine. Pocket layout is adequate--two zippered hand pockets and a zippered thigh one with beacon loop. Beacon ends up riding a little out on the front of the thigh, but I don't notice it during use. I miss the big glove-sized pocket on the proclines. These have proper belt loops, so that's real nice.

radical 2 gtx: these are a hard shell, so wrong thread I guess. They were way tighter in the thighs and crotch for me. Way less stretchy and not comfy without a baselayer (kinda obvious for a hardshell, but I was optimistic). Beacon pocket was even more out on the knee than the hybrids. Far less touring-friendly than the other pants with similar name, so I guess my advice is to try out this year's model but make sure you buy from a place with good return policy.

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Originally Posted by sf

Dynafit Radical anyone?

Comments regarding fit and features appreciated

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This year’s Radical Softshell pants seem to be a very close evolution of my Mercury Pro Softshell pants, which gets all the details right, and which I hope to replace with the same when the time comes. Assuming (and from the description) they’re the same, they’re pretty standard softshell pants, but (compared to options from OR, Patagonia and Arc’teryx I’ve checked out) they fit (Med)my tall, lean (6’1” 175lbs) physique well (don’t crush my balls, and are adequately long), have tabs for my belt (essential), have lots of stretch so are unrestrictive when striding, the brushed fabric seems to add the right amount of warmth that they work perfectly with just a light merino underlayer on most days, the hem fits snugly over my (Hoji Free) boots, and the the rear hem zip is designed to work compatibly with the Hoji lock mechanism. The only downside for me is that they’re a little loud in their colours and branding, but I can live with it for functionality.

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Originally Posted by ptavv

I bought a pair of the new OR Trailbreaker II pants and as far as I can tell in my bedroom they seem great.

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Update on these pants after a dozen or so days: They're pretty dang great. I haven't had the otherwise mentioned problems about the hardshell fabric glopping snow (maybe that was a Trailbreaker I problem?). I did wear them one day that turned out to be a few degrees warmer and sloppier with lower mountain snain and upper mountain hot pow where they wetted out and were pretty damp by the end of day, but that was a poor choice on my part (should've worn a hardshell pant) more than a failure on the pants part

New season bump. My the stitching is disintegrating on my decade+ old Arc' Gamma SKs and I need something new. What's the best out there?

Considering Arc'teryx Rush, Norrona lyngen flex 1 light, ...? Ortovox has 4 different softshell pants and all I can tell from the descriptions is that I don't want the col becchei.

Dude bad news IMHO: your arc Gamma SK were a high water mark for softshell ski touring pants. There are acceptable alternatives today but the Gamma SK with suspender were everything you need and nothing you don’t. Buy another set if you can.


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Yep, the old Gamma SK was a real gem. Nothing in the current Arc lineup that really compares. The BD Dawn Patrol pant is somewhat similar. RIP Gamma SK.

We have something coming over at Raide that’s worth checking out. Launching Thursday. Hybrid softshell/hardshell with a super breathable low bib. I felt like the perfect touring pant didn’t exist and I’ve seen this thread going for far too long so I decided to make my ideal pant.


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Bought a pair of Arcteryx rush softshell from our local outlet for $150 Side vents and shape was a good fit. Look forward to trying them for snowshoe and touring this early winter


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Check out Stio. Really nice SS pants.

I really like my BD Dawn Patrol pants - fit great, good pockets, good ventilation

trying out some OR Trailbreaker II this season - the hardshell / softshell combo seems worth a try for some days

we sell Rab at the shop I work at and their pants look great

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Originally Posted by skis_the_trees

Dude bad news IMHO: your arc Gamma SK were a high water mark for softshell ski touring pants. There are acceptable alternatives today but the Gamma SK with suspender were everything you need and nothing you don’t. Buy another set if you can.

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Wish it were as easy as "buy another pair" but given they've been discontinued for over 10 years...

I do have a pair lying around that's a size too big. I might take them to a tailor and have them take a few inches out of the waist. Then maybe by 2035 someone will have achieved the level of pants that we saw in 2010.

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Originally Posted by whyturn

Bought a pair of Arcteryx rush softshell from our local outlet for $150 Side vents and shape was a good fit. Look forward to trying them for snowshoe and touring this early winter


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Are the newer Rush pants the same as the Rush FLs from 3-4 years ago?

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Originally Posted by concierge

We have something coming over at Raide that’s worth checking out. Launching Thursday. Hybrid softshell/hardshell with a super breathable low bib. I felt like the perfect touring pant didn’t exist and I’ve seen this thread going for far too long so I decided to make my ideal pant.


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Please post up and let us know when these go live.

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Originally Posted by GoSlowGoFar

Are the newer Rush pants the same as the Rush FLs from 3-4 years ago?

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Not sure can post pics

Side vents with gaiters and built in belt

Fabric is pretty thick

They are a cool ghost grey


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Has taped seams, gaiters and 3 pockets

Arcteryx rush softshell

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Worked well hiking in this area

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White ?

do I look like Barry fucking Manilow

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Originally Posted by XXX-er

White ?

do I look like Barry fucking Manilow

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A lot of women look great in white ski pants…from behind.

black is the slimming color always for women

and dentists who do more root canals than recreation

Why do people like mixed hardshell/softshell touring pants?

For where I do most of my touring (California Sierra Nevada), I either want hardshell (because it’s precipitating) or softshell (because it’s not).

It’s probably a dumb question, but just not sure why you’d want the sweaty part of your lower body under a hardshell while your calves are under the softshell. On the flip side, if it’s precipitating, why don’t you want the hardshell protection for your calves?

My BD Dawn Patrol pants are not the sexiest but damn are they functional and get a ton of use.

If it’s precipitating, I have a pair of Trew Roam (low) bibs. Love those too, except when I have to dump (see: bibs). Stretchy, great pockets.


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Originally Posted by meter-man

Why do people like mixed hardshell/softshell touring pants?

For where I do most of my touring (California Sierra Nevada), I either want hardshell (because it’s precipitating) or softshell (because it’s not).

It’s probably a dumb question, but just not sure why you’d want the sweaty part of your lower body under a hardshell while your calves are under the softshell. On the flip side, if it’s precipitating, why don’t you want the hardshell protection for your calves?

My BD Dawn Patrol pants are not the sexiest but damn are they functional and get a ton of use.

If it’s precipitating, I have a pair of Trew Roam (low) bibs. Love those too, except when I have to dump (see: bibs). Stretchy, great pockets.


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I live in Colorado so even when it’s precipitating I can wear softshell, but there are a lot of times I want softshell around my high heat areas (glutes, hamstrings, quads) for breathability, but my knees and lower legs are still in the snow such as digging a pit, breaking trail or boot packing. So I feel like a hybrid pant is the best of both worlds and really doesn’t impact breathability much if the hardshell is minimal.

When I go running in the rain/sleet/precip I never wear any type of hardshell material. Sure I'm wetted out within a 1/2 mile, but then stay warm by staying active.

When I go ski touring in the rain/sleet/precip (and yes I do sometimes go ski touring in the actual rain), I have found soft shells work better(!). At least they breath and dry a little bit going uphill whereas hard-shells just stay wet underneath all day. Granted, I am mostly vertical focused when ski touring in those conditions and never stop moving excepting fast transitions. If it's raining then by default it's not very cold out, so a 100wt old school fleece without any elastane is all you need going uphill, then a synthetic puff for wet warmth going down. Add a thin softshell with a bit of DWR left for in between conditions.

So yea, 100% softshell pants for touring (unlined, no membrane, no seam tape), and softshell jacket if at all (puff is fine most of the time without a ___shell).

YMMV based on your geography and ski touring style but for me ski touring is more like a mountain run than resort skiing and my clothing reflects that appropriately.

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Originally Posted by skis_the_trees

When I go running in the rain/sleet/precip I never wear any type of hardshell material. Sure I'm wetted out within a 1/2 mile, but then stay warm by staying active.

When I go ski touring in the rain/sleet/precip (and yes I do sometimes go ski touring in the actual rain), I have found soft shells work better(!). At least they breath and dry a little bit going uphill whereas hard-shells just stay wet underneath all day. Granted, I am mostly vertical focused when ski touring in those conditions and never stop moving excepting fast transitions. If it's raining then by default it's not very cold out, so a 100wt old school fleece without any elastane is all you need going uphill, then a synthetic puff for wet warmth going down. Add a thin softshell with a bit of DWR left for in between conditions.

So yea, 100% softshell pants for touring (unlined, no membrane, no seam tape), and softshell jacket if at all (puff is fine most of the time without a ___shell).

YMMV based on your geography and ski touring style but for me ski touring is more like a mountain run than resort skiing and my clothing reflects that appropriately.

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Your margins are too thin with this approach for my comfort, but we all have our own style I guess.

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Originally Posted by meter-man

Why do people like mixed hardshell/softshell touring pants?

For where I do most of my touring (California Sierra Nevada), I either want hardshell (because it’s precipitating) or softshell (because it’s not).

It’s probably a dumb question, but just not sure why you’d want the sweaty part of your lower body under a hardshell while your calves are under the softshell. On the flip side, if it’s precipitating, why don’t you want the hardshell protection for your calves?

My BD Dawn Patrol pants are not the sexiest but damn are they functional and get a ton of use.

If it’s precipitating, I have a pair of Trew Roam (low) bibs. Love those too, except when I have to dump (see: bibs). Stretchy, great pockets.


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As an inter-mountain northwest skier I could not agree more. For trailhead backcountry skiing I've tried various hybrid pants over the years and have given up on trying to have the best of both worlds. Regardless of brand, material, or design, I am all-in on full softshell (no membrane). The ability to dry on the tour and maintain comfort is exceptional/vastly superior to hybrids of even our modern electro-spun membranes (which are pretty darn incredible for what they are).

For gate access backcountry touring, I could be persuaded there is benifit/upside, but as long as I'm driving to a trailhead and not a lift access area, I'm staying membrane free.

I’m with you. Unless it’s raining or really wet I’m in soft shell even lift served. Touring, if it’s wet enough for hard shell, I’m taking shelter or turning around.

I think a lot of people haven’t given no membrane soft shell pants a try. They’re so comfortable, cold midwinter I don’t sweat in them and they still block the wind and keep me warm because they’re dry.


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Originally Posted by meter-man

Why do people like mixed hardshell/softshell touring pants?

It’s probably a dumb question, but just not sure why you’d want the sweaty part of your lower body under a hardshell while your calves are under the softshell. On the flip side, if it’s precipitating, why don’t you want the hardshell protection for your calves

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Two very different designs going on there:
some hybrids have the WPB in the lower legs, some have it on the knees and front of thighs.

I think the idea for the first design is that your lower legs might be in the snow.
So, you get the range of motion and breathability of a mostly softshell pant, but without soaking your lower legs, which aren’t as sweaty anyway. The clue is in the Trailbreaker name of the OR version. @concierge described this.

The idea for the second one is that you get more wind and precip protection where you need it, and more stretch and breatheabilty than full WPB pants would offer.
After all, you don’t get uniformly cold or wet everywhere on your legs when it’s windy or precipitating.
Some softshells (I know some from mammut) also address this by using thicker softshell fabric on the knees and front of the thighs.


Of course, the fact that both of these competing designs exist shows that there is something to be said for full WPB.

I think there is definitely something to be said for softshell on the butt, for range of motion. You also don’t get much precip hitting there because of forward movement and the protection from a backpack.
The same ROM thing could be said for the knees, except that they are very exposed to wet precip, and also knees get cold easily and don’t like it.
Vanity plays into this too. Most people, find preshaped, roomy knees a bit more acceptable than a saggy butt on their pants, so WPB fabric knees are not as much of a down side as WPB butt.

I don’t currently own any hybrid pants, because I need a rare size (32x36), but in general , I’m fan of hybrid garments, mapping each fabric to where it’s strengths are maximized and its downsides minimized. Like front and rear tires on a mtb.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by concierge

We have something coming over at Raide that’s worth checking out. Launching Thursday. Hybrid softshell/hardshell with a super breathable low bib. I felt like the perfect touring pant didn’t exist and I’ve seen this thread going for far too long so I decided to make my ideal pant.


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I love the high waist, low bibs. No gaps, and less bulky overlap from underpants waist band and any extra layers. And they can be loser so no tightness when bending over/sitting down.

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Originally Posted by concierge

I live in Colorado so even when it’s precipitating I can wear softshell, but there are a lot of times I want softshell around my high heat areas (glutes, hamstrings, quads) for breathability, but my knees and lower legs are still in the snow such as digging a pit, breaking trail or boot packing. So I feel like a hybrid pant is the best of both worlds and really doesn’t impact breathability much if the hardshell is minimal.

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That's helpful - thanks. I think if I lived in Colorado (or Montana or another high, dry, cold state), I would probably feel the same.

But in the coastal ranges (Sierra, Cascades), usually it's either wet or it's sunny. And if it's wet, you better be in full hardshell!

Anyway, I look forward to seeing what you've whipped up. Cheers.

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Originally Posted by Tjaardbreeuwer

Two very different designs going on there:
some hybrids have the WPB in the lower legs, some have it on the knees and front of thighs.

I think the idea for the first design is that your lower legs might be in the snow.
So, you get the range of motion and breathability of a mostly softshell pant, but without soaking your lower legs, which aren’t as sweaty anyway. The clue is in the Trailbreaker name of the OR version. @concierge described this.

The idea for the second one is that you get more wind and precip protection where you need it, and more stretch and breatheabilty than full WPB pants would offer.
After all, you don’t get uniformly cold or wet everywhere on your legs when it’s windy or precipitating.
Some softshells (I know some from mammut) also address this by using thicker softshell fabric on the knees and front of the thighs.


Of course, the fact that both of these competing designs exist shows that there is something to be said for full WPB.

I think there is definitely something to be said for softshell on the butt, for range of motion. You also don’t get much precip hitting there because of forward movement and the protection from a backpack.
The same ROM thing could be said for the knees, except that they are very exposed to wet precip, and also knees get cold easily and don’t like it.
Vanity plays into this too. Most people, find preshaped, roomy knees a bit more acceptable than a saggy butt on their pants, so WPB fabric knees are not as much of a down side as WPB butt.

I don’t currently own any hybrid pants, because I need a rare size (32x36), but in general , I’m fan of hybrid garments, mapping each fabric to where it’s strengths are maximized and its downsides minimized. Like front and rear tires on a mtb.

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Good comments - thanks for sharing.

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Originally Posted by zion zig zag

Your margins are too thin with this approach for my comfort, but we all have our own style I guess.

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What do you consider sufficient

From what I can gather neither the BD Dawn Patrol nor the Arc Rush have dedicated beacon pockets?

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Originally Posted by mr_pretzel

What do you consider sufficient

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Staying warm and dry. And being able to do that even if there is an unplanned stop of movement. I get the fact that you can stay warm if transitions are quick, breaks are short and the weather isn’t terrible. But I want to know that I can survive if the weather turns or I have to sit still for a few hours.

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Originally Posted by zion zig zag

From what I can gather neither the BD Dawn Patrol nor the Arc Rush have dedicated beacon pockets?

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Dunno about the Arc, but tis true about the DP. I had a tailor add a leash - cannot understand why the "Dawn Patrol" would not already have that. Biggest fail on that pant.

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Originally Posted by zion zig zag

Staying warm and dry. And being able to do that even if there is an unplanned stop of movement. I get the fact that you can stay warm if transitions are quick, breaks are short and the weather isn’t terrible. But I want to know that I can survive if the weather turns or I have to sit still for a few hours.

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So what do wear and bring?

....details?

https://s3.ezgif.com/tmp/ezgif-3-d85...lay-0.15s.webp

Well, the answer to the question posed at the top of this thread is everybody needs/wants something a little different. I have three pair of soft shells, but my current favorite is the Maloja Khesarm, which I’ve suggested up thread. I also have a 30-year-old pair of Arcteryx that are essentially bellbottoms with a drawstring at the boot that I keep sewing up the cuts and holes on, and I have the Dynafit Mercury, (which I cut the boot snow gaiter out of). I’m not sure why you’d want a snow gator for a BC pant. I tried it for one season with the Mercury and it just keeps getting in the way on transitions. For the one or two days a year that it’s raining, or maybe gonna rain, I just wear my side zip lightweight Gore-Tex. This thread is a fun read though, because nobody seems to like the same thing.

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Originally Posted by zion zig zag

From what I can gather neither the BD Dawn Patrol nor the Arc Rush have dedicated beacon pockets?

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The Rush does have a beacon pocket but they call it a key loop for liability purposes I’m guessing.

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Originally Posted by GoSlowGoFar

The Rush does have a beacon pocket but they call it a key loop for liability purposes I’m guessing.

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It’s a small loop on lower thigh I’m impressed with the rush softshell


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@plugboots: thanks for mentioning the Maloja’s! Some of the only ones that come in different inseam lengths.
unfortunately they don’t mention what the length of the long or short versions is ;-(

Edit: found it somewhere else:

https://www.bergfreunde.eu/maloja-size-chart/

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Originally Posted by zion zig zag

But I want to know that I can survive...

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Originally Posted by plugboots

This thread is a fun read though, because nobody seems to like the same thing.

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I like surviving too for the record.

8 pages on pants, that's fun!

Looks like no one makes the perfect soft shell pants / but if you find a pair that is only missing a beacon clip in the thigh pocket you can always have one added in by a gear repair shop yeah?