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I used my TLT6 liners for (I think) two tours before putting a Pro-tour in.
Got my XTDs out for a short tour and was impressed by the stiffness, having come from a boot with the flex-resistance of a cooked egg noodle. I didn't even bother with the stock liner, I put the liners from my first-year Freedom SL in it. Kind of a protour/luxury hybrid. Fit well for my skinny ankle/wide forefoot.
Which XTD? I feel like it matters, because the liners in the XTD 120 seem great to me, but I’ve never tried on an XTD 130 with it’s lighter linerQuote:
Originally Posted by Bean
^130. I used the stock liner to see how the boot fit at the shop then swapped in the intuition when I got them home. They felt good on snow as-is so I'm really looking forward to the fit post-mold.
Rludes - I can't believe nobody is buying those!
First day of riding lifts in the 120's. Good conditions, but enough variability to give them a little test. So far, I am psyched. I wasn't pushing too hard, but I'm a fairly large human (6'2.5"/225 lbs) and I thought they skied really well.
I probably need to do a little more liner surgery on the plastic on the tongue, since that digs into my big f'ed up ankles a bit, but a very promising start!
I am skiing them with Tectons on 193 Blizzard Gunsmokes, right now.
Day one on my 130's...the details: 27.5 shell to jam my 11.5 low instep Morton toe, sixth toe beat up feet into. I have about 3/4 finger in shell length to work with. Skinny calves, med to low volume ankles. 5-11 175lb, won't tolerate anything less than a full performance/race style fit...old habits
Rambling notes:
Setup as follows, Shell and liner heat fit yesterday using new Intuition Pro Wraps 28.0 (which are actually a hair short for me). Lots of padding on sixth toe, toe caps with additional padding. After the heat fit and taking the near castrating additional padding off things felt pretty good.
Opted to use my old and more packed out intuitions on day one...these are also 28's but I have cut the toe box open with a slit to allow breathing room for my long 2nd toe.
Conditions: Jackson, frozen crud with a hair of dust and death cookie groomers and a tiny bit of dust on crust here and there. 107 waist rock skis , not exactly ideal for the conditions
Initial observations and goal: to have a one boot quiver vs the Zero G/ Spyne110 setup form last year. For my feet the Zero G is a bit boxy and these were better for me all around. I would say they were on par with my fit on the Spynes which was spot on. With Intuiitions the flex was a bit less progressive than the Spynes with a shorter slightly more wall like feel... this led me to think they were a bit stiffer than the 110 K2's but as the day wore on I realized it was a bit softer. I could bottom them on the wall but plan on putting the new/stiffer , tighter fitting liners in tommorow and that will probably change that a bit. Vs the Guides I would say a fair amount stiffer and again a shorter flex pattern. Resort performance was pretty impressive, I would say darn close to my Spynes. I would say I'm 90 percent convinced they will be able to cross over 100% that said I prefer a slightly softer boot than most.
I think my 110 resort boots with wrap liners end up about 130 on the "normal" scale...whatever that is. These boots come darn close to that and are very responsive. In a perfect world I would like a bit longer more progressive flex profile closer to my alpine boots but didn't feel I gave up much because of that difference. In short for a "backcountry boot" they rip vs anything else I have tried and I was able to get a good tight fit vs anything Dynafit or Scarpa which absolutly hate my feet. If your not into super stiff double sheets of metal in your skis these will totally work at the resort. If you like super stiff stuff you'll give up a bit but are still a pretty darn good high performance option.
In short I was impressed and really happy with them. I anticipate a bit more performance with the new liners and the booster straps I installed tonight.
The stock liners are a joke IMO...I couldn't imagine using them.
Soooo people should just buy the 120s and intuitions and save the money? Plus the 120 liner adds a bit of progressiveness and could be used in the resort.Quote:
Originally Posted by wstdeep
Never tried the 120 liners as I was committed to Intutions from the start. I guess I could see using the 130 liners if you had a perfect fit with them but there is not much in the way of cushion and the material grabs your sock going in and out making that process much tougher in a boot that is already a bit tough to wiggle into.Quote:
Originally Posted by thejongiest
So what did we decide the difference was between the 120 and 130 shell?
Color and cuff material I believe.
Cuff on 120 is PU to make it flex softer.
Internet theory might suggest PU could be more progressive or have better rebound but I haven’t read of anyone testing both boots let alone one of each on different feet.
Seems most notable differences are liner, color and $100
Suggest reading the newschoolers thread if you havent already. Good info there from the designer
I haven't read it yet but I thought Blister posted something about this yesterday.Quote:
Originally Posted by dcpnz
ETA
http://blistergearreview.com/gear-re...-ultra-xtd-120
Re that blister review:
"But what if you want to go on long tours and don’t mind giving up some of that downhill performance?
You have two options:
(1) You can buy the XTD 130 instead, and get a stiffer shell with a lighter liner. Or…
(2) You could buy a pair of Intuition Pro Tours (or another similar liner) for the XTD 120, and swap out the liner depending on whether you’re skiing inbounds or going on a ski tour.
Personally, I’m more intrigued by that last option. "
I was talking to a buddy this weekend who went this^^ route on his hawks, size up a little on the shells and go Intuition right away ...he seems very happy. I'm not gona run right out and buy them but that moulding of the boot shell technology is intriguing and i'm glad its there at least for the future
I don't really get the blister review likening the 130xtd liner to a pro tour.
The xtd liner I tried was very thin, flimsy and folded up trying to put boot on. Its much more akin to palau liners from dynafit boots IMO.
My pro tour from a few years ago are much thicker and stiffer. I would think you'd need to consider sizing up just to fit one in.
Maybe newer lv protours are much different??
@dcpnz Obviously one wants to know if the production 130XTD liner is equivelent to a Pro Tour... but I also want to know if the 120XTD liner is going to be the equivalent of a Pro Tongue?
With the PU cuff only increasing boot weight 3%, its probably a matter of stiffness vs flex characteristics... but does the PU cuff affect fitting vs grillamid?
If the PU cuff fits as well, a 120XTD with Power Wrap paired with a Pro Tour would be a one boot quiver...
^The 120 liner seems like a decent liner to me, but it is quite different from a Pro Tongue. Take a look at the pics of the stock liner, and many differences in construction will be apparent. They definitely feel quite different.
I have tried on the boots with my Pro Tongues which were previously used in a Tecnica Cochise. The Pro Tongues take up a lot more volume, as in I can barely buckle the boots, while I am relatively close to running out of buckle with the stock ones. The Pro Tongues also feel much stiffer at room temp, but some of this may also be because of the snug fit?
I will likely be doing some surgery on the Pro Tongues for added Rom soon, and seeing how that works out with the boots. With stock Pro Tongues the walk mode is very limited.
Agree with you and disagree with Blister. That Production liner is a typical Palau liner good for 30days then bag it for catfoodQuote:
Originally Posted by dcpnz
Its in the NS thread and summarized in my review. Different plasticsQuote:
Originally Posted by Summit
You mean by following the standard Memory Fit procedure? Pretty much none.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevada29er
Day five at Jackson on mine ( 130's ) I've played with both old and New Intuition pro wrap liners on a couple different width skis...85 and 107 to see what they offer in terms of power. First off I like the boots, they ski really nice and the light weight enhances the whole experience and I look forward to touring, hiking and hucking in them. What they are not at least for me is an everyday do it all resort/side-country/touring boot. My hope was that they would be able to fill this role and sadly they will not. They have a pretty short flex pattern that no matter what Atomic says is no where near the 130 flex that the 130Hawx Ultra alpine boot has...I put one of each on today with my own liners inserted and it was not even close. I bottomed out a few times today on high speed compression turns and that cemented my opinion that I could not live in them everyday for everything. If you don't ski hard and fast you could probably get away with them inbounds for everyday and certainly for occasional use they would suffice. Just don't expect them to rail turns like your 130 flex alpine boots...it won't happen.
But its is a nice option if you don't mind a boot quiver of two or do mostly off piste and want what is probably one of the top couple of pin/walk sole style options out there.
Guys, what do you think about hawx ultra xtd 100 + intuition luxury or pro tour liner? Is it worth it?
Also what would you pick hawx ultra xtd 120 vs Salomon MTN explore?
The one that fits better.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sashka
Which ones fit better? Hawx fit my outta the box very well whereas the MTN explore would have needed more work. With that said neither are red so yer screwed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sashka
They both fit fine - a little snug in the toes, but fine. what would you pick? I don't have any previous ski tour experience.
P.S. Also, my performance size is 24.5. But I ski fine in dalbello krypton in 25.0. Should I downsize to 24.5 (both boots needs some work to push the toes) or go with 25.5 (fine from box, but 2 fingers from shell to heel)
If you are replacing the Kryptons and skiing everything in the new boots (possibly touring a bit as well) then the Hawx Ultra XTD.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sashka
If you are keeping the Kryptons as a resort boot and touring only in the new boots, the MTN Explore.
Whose fingers? Mine are 15mm thick; a 30mm shell fit for a smallish foot is pretty sloppy.
Sorry, but I don't have time these days to read through 13 pages of TGR (ah, those were the days), so... 120 vs 130 flex - who has tried both either in the shop or on the hill? Does a stock 120 feel significantly softer than a stock 130? I have only managed to try the 130 locally. Would prefer the stiffer flex of the 130 but feel like the snugger liner of the 120 will work for my foot better.
Anyone coming from a Krypton to an XTD 130 as a one boot quiver will be drastically disappointed by how terribly the XTD skis when compared to a KR2.
One boot quivers are dumb. It’s like a one ski quiver - sucks at everything.
Fine be that way I'll just keep skiing my alpine boots ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by XavierD
Yes, but unlike skis 3-4 boots is probably about the most you need for all kinds of objectives.Quote:
Originally Posted by XavierD
I want to buy a touring boot only. And keep my krypton for resort use.Quote:
Originally Posted by gregL
P.S. My fingers. Actually 20mm.
Why those two boots? What about the Scarpa Maestrale RS2 and Dynafit Vulcan?Quote:
Originally Posted by Sashka
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sashka
I've been skiing the last two days in the 100 flex version with a Sidas liner and so far I'm very happy with them. Only downside for me is that the 100 flex version doesn't have the user serviceable cuff pivot and the lower buckles are riveted (not bolted).
100 flex version doesn't come with the spoiler in the box (although I'm skiing with someone who is using the 120 flex version, and he says that there was no spoiler in the box of his boots either).
Anyone know when atomic will be shipping out more 28.5s? they are sold out everywhere in the US as far as I can tell.
1. My last is 98.Quote:
Originally Posted by auvgeek
2. I can't try them before buy
3. THere aren't good prices for them in europe - I can buy salomon mnt explore new in box for <300$ and slightly more for atomics. waaaaay more for Vulcans, for example
28's look to be done. We don't generally sell boots online but pretty sure our shop still has a 28.5 130, too hot of a boot for a deal but PM if you want me to look into it for you.Quote:
Originally Posted by carlh
20mm for a touring boot is fine.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sashka
They are both excellent boots.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sashka
MTN Explore = better range of motion, wider heel, easier to put on/take off, simple walk mode mechanism and minimal fiddling during transition
Hawx Ultra XTD = Snugger fit through the ankle and heel, more powerful "alpine" feel, WTR compatible if you are switching between alpine skis and touring skis (I have the 130, not the 120)
This is why my previous post said "buy the one that fits better." IMO the fit is pretty dramatically different in the ankle of these two boots and that's probably the most important area of the boot to fit well.Quote:
Originally Posted by gregL
Id also say the MTN has less room in the pinky/sixth toe area, so if you have a square set of toes on your feet the XTD is a better fit. The MTN also has a noticeably lower instep, and that was the real deal breaker for me.Quote:
Originally Posted by adrenalated
XTD: low volume heel/ankle, "roomy"/square toe box, medium/high instep
MTN: wider heel/ankle, low instep, "sloped" toe box (long towards the big toe, tight/short towards the pinky toe)
Straight off the shelf that's true, but the MTN Lab is super easy to punch for extra width in the toe box.Quote:
Originally Posted by Climber Joe
Well it's more the shape. The xtd has a nearly symmetrical toe box. The Mtn had a angled "asymmetrical" shape. Basically the two different shapes feet come in.Quote:
Originally Posted by gregL
Is the Hawx XTD compatible with 2014 Marker Squire binders? A sales person recently told me they weren't but they couldn't give me a good reason other than "manufacturer specs say it's not compatible".