Truck snow tires

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Originally Posted by Hood26

What are you all running for tire pressure on your Load E/ten ply?

Studded LT3 currently at 65 front and 70 rear.

I am not towing nor hauling heavy currently and think I could get away with running much less pressure for better traction and softer ride. Thinking of 60 all-around

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I’m running 64 front and 67 rear on Studless Hakka LT3s (at 40F); door sticker for my gasser is 65 psi all around, I’ve scaled my truck mid winter when towing and I’m around 4300-4500 lbs on the steer axle and around 4500-4800 lbs on the drive axle, kind of varies a bit but usually around 9000-9200 combined.

I’m sure 60 psi unloaded would be fine.

The Hakka LT3 can be a little wandering when overinflated - I tried it at 75 psi once and it wasn’t great. On the flip side, the LT3 doesn’t have the stiffest sidewalls so it gets some flex when loaded. When I’m towing I actually have my Rancho shocks set to maximum damping because the Hakka sidewall flex is so noticeable when the trailer tongue (between 700 and 1000 lbs) is bouncing around or pushing on that rear axle.

It’s too bad Nokian doesn’t publish load capacity inflation charts like other manufacturers. It’s good to know how much margin you have above the rated capacity and speed at each PSI.

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Originally Posted by SchralphMacchio

I’m running 64 front and 67 rear on Studless Hakka LT3s (at 40F); door sticker for my gasser is 65 psi all around, I’ve scaled my truck mid winter when towing and I’m around 4300-4500 lbs on the steer axle and around 4500-4800 lbs on the drive axle, kind of varies a bit but usually around 9000-9200 combined.

I’m sure 60 psi unloaded would be fine.

The Hakka LT3 can be a little wandering when overinflated - I tried it at 75 psi once and it wasn’t great. On the flip side, the LT3 doesn’t have the stiffest sidewalls so it gets some flex when loaded. When I’m towing I actually have my Rancho shocks set to maximum damping because the Hakka sidewall flex is so noticeable when the trailer tongue (between 700 and 1000 lbs) is bouncing around or pushing on that rear axle.

It’s too bad Nokian doesn’t publish load capacity inflation charts like other manufacturers. It’s good to know how much margin you have above the rated capacity and speed at each PSI.

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Load ratings are an industry standard. You can use the chart from any manufacture, or you can play with the calculator here:

https://tiresize.com/pressure-calculator/

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Originally Posted by SnowMachine

TPMS warning threshold on my truck is 60psi. I start at 65psi cold. My last truck had the threshold reprogrammed lower. I ran those at 55psi.

I bumped those to 65psi when hauling/towing. I'm never really near max payload where 75-80 is called for.

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If you have a Ford, it's pretty easy to reprogram those PSI thresholds to whatever you want, or turn them off completely, using Forscan.

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Originally Posted by J. Barron DeJong

Load ratings are an industry standard. You can use the chart from any manufacture, or you can play with the calculator here:

https://tiresize.com/pressure-calculator/

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I swear I’ve seen minor differences in load index at max psi between different manufacturers, but I could be smoking crack there.
So it seems like if load rating is same or similar at a given psi, then do differences in construction have a larger bearing on speed rating at that load capacity?

Seems pretty simple to me that with a big ass truck, you load up your shit (or not), look at your tires, you drive down the road and see how it feels, you have a general idea of what it says on the sidewall (given you have the tires for the job in the first place), and then you set your psi for the load, temps, altitude, and conditions as necessary. It's not a graph, and it's not rocket science.

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Originally Posted by El Chupacabra

If you have a Ford, it's pretty easy to reprogram those PSI thresholds to whatever you want, or turn them off completely, using Forscan.

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I'm on my second Ram. The first had a crazy high threshold. I think it was 70. I reprommed it to 50. The new truck threshold is 60, I believe. The coil spring Rams ride so well that a 35" tire on 18" wheels is totally comfortable at 65psi. I'll probably leave this one alone.

FWIW, I now have 2k miles in "variable" conditions (all Tahoe area miles). The K03 is pretty impressive. I'd say every bit the equal to the AT3W. Now I just need to see if they last as well.

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Originally Posted by SnowMachine

I'm on my second Ram. The first had a crazy high threshold. I think it was 70. I reprommed it to 50. The new truck threshold is 60, I believe. The coil spring Rams ride so well that a 35" tire on 18" wheels is totally comfortable at 65psi. I'll probably leave this one alone.

FWIW, I now have 2k miles in "variable" conditions (all Tahoe area miles). The K03 is pretty impressive. I'd say every bit the equal to the AT3W. Now I just need to see if they last as well.

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Edit: this was suppose to be a reply to Schralph.

Speed rating, I believe, has a lot to do with carcass construction. It needs to not deform so much that internal friction leads to damaging heat, and it needs to be strong enough to withstand the increasing centripetal forces as speeds increase.

Article on load ratings:

https://www.tirerack.com/upgrade-gar...0load%20tires.

Schralph, maybe you looking at p-metric and metric charts, which would be different?

The article also notes that ‘select’ LT tires don’t conform to standard max load pressure ratings.

On my 5th winter with a set of Hakka's. I'm not sure how many miles but probably 30-40k. Have put 92k on the truck over the period of time since purchasing them. Had a little trouble starting after stopping on a steep icy hill last weekend but otherwise still seem "ok". Down to about 50% tread and plan to replace them next fall. Seems like all of the local shops are out of my size this year anyway except studded which I'd prefer not to have. I've run 2 sets of Blizzaks prior to these and only get 2-3 winters so I'm pretty impressed with the Haks.

Kind of funny story, our SAR team was paged out last March and had to get to a snowed in trailhead. The 4x4 team also responded and some jacked up jeeps were getting stuck on their big mud terrain tires. They were a little embarrassed when I pulled in driving a stock F150 and offered to pull them out.

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Originally Posted by Bronco

On my 5th winter with a set of Hakka's. I'm not sure how many miles but probably 30-40k. Have put 92k on the truck over the period of time since purchasing them. Had a little trouble starting after stopping on a steep icy hill last weekend but otherwise still seem "ok". Down to about 50% tread and plan to replace them next fall. Seems like all of the local shops are out of my size this year anyway except studded which I'd prefer not to have. I've run 2 sets of Blizzaks prior to these and only get 2-3 winters so I'm pretty impressed with the Haks.

Kind of funny story, our SAR team was paged out last March and had to get to a snowed in trailhead. The 4x4 team also responded and some jacked up jeeps were getting stuck on their big mud terrain tires. They were a little embarrassed when I pulled in driving a stock F150 and offered to pull them out.

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Hakka LT3 or SUV?
50% overall tread, or 50% on the snow traction indicators?

I’ve got 3 winters on studless Hakka LT3s, so maybe 18-20k miles. One pair is only worn about 25% for indicated snow traction (the 80% markers just recently disappeared) and the other pair is worn just shy of 50% (the 60% markers just recently disappeared). I was rotating them properly until last winter when a 7-pin corrosion issue was limiting trailer braking power and the truck’s front tires were doing most of the braking down our steep winding passes.

Seems like I will be able to get 40k out of them before the snow traction indicators disappear, that’s not bad at all!
LT275/70R18 weighing about 8-9000 lbs.

First four hundred miles and I’m very impressed with the Nokian Outpost AT on my van. Much quieter than the Falken AT Three W’s I had on before (~fifteen thousand miles). Every bit as quiet as the stock continentals too.

Very excited to see how they do off-roading in Utah, and then driving in the snow in CO, Utah, and Tahoe. Will be a great test, about twenty five hundred miles round trip from CA to CO and back

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Originally Posted by Bronco

Kind of funny story, our SAR team was paged out last March and had to get to a snowed in trailhead. The 4x4 team also responded and some jacked up jeeps were getting stuck on their big mud terrain tires. They were a little embarrassed when I pulled in driving a stock F150 and offered to pull them out.

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I'm not sure I totally believe you or maybe their mud tires were shot or overinflated. At 4-8psi a locked jeep on good mud tires goes anywhere except packed ice. Not remotely a close comparison. Everyone that has ever done a 4X4 recovery should know how to set their rig up. On a plowed FS road, sure a snow tire is going to be better. Conditions matter. I've been embarrassed by a Subaru before when I was in my F250 on brand new snow tires.

This week we had 4" snow followed by rain. It was nasty. I drove a newer X5 on Blizzak LM001's to a customer's house and then drove my Jeep on 37" Toyo MT's home. The Jeep felt like the better tool, but they were both awful. The X5 stopped better, but could hardly climb the road to their house. The Jeep climbed the hill fine, but was tough to get stopped.

Every day driving on snow is different.

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Originally Posted by Muggydude

First four hundred miles and I’m very impressed with the Nokian Outpost AT on my van. Much quieter than the Falken AT Three W’s I had on before (~fifteen thousand miles). Every bit as quiet as the stock continentals too.

Very excited to see how they do off-roading in Utah, and then driving in the snow in CO, Utah, and Tahoe. Will be a great test, about twenty five hundred miles round trip from CA to CO and back

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I'm fascinated to hear more about the performance of the AT. It looks like a good tire.

I've got enough drive time on the new Falken AT4W that I can no longer give it my blessing. It SUCKS on ice. Such a sad replacement for the 3W that was great in LT size/ratings. I've now run it on Sprinters, 3/4 ton trucks and SUV's. No Bueno.

I think the K03 is my current AT rec when possible.

Got k03 for my boys taco. Up and down the canyons
Says it’s good.

Ice? Fack. Only studs work on that. But for a year round tire k03 seems to be the best right now.

I’ll be driving it in a few weeks. Might have to upgrade my own rig if it’s as good as they say.
Having snow grip without summer wear seems impossible. But we can dream.

Got about 3000 miles on the Nokian Outpost AT’s

Very quiet and smooth on the highway. Considerably quieter than Falken AT3W. Wandered a bit the first 1000 miles til they broke in and I lowered air pressure a bit. Good now.

Stellar offroad in Moab

I’d give them a very good rating in snow. I will say they seem to slip a little more braking than my Falken AT3W’s, but it’s predictable and still quite good for a 8500lb van. Lateral traction slight nod to Falkens too, acceleration I couldn’t really tell a difference. Overall id definitely recommend them, even if the Falkens were still slightly better (but discontinued now so a moot point).

That being said, I’m debating if I should just get a dedicated winter set of tires. I only commute from the Bay Area to Tahoe and back in the winter in the van, no other driving or daily commute. First 175 miles are usually dry or wet pavement at 40-55 degrees, so they might wear a bit faster, but not too bad.

Could get a full set of new Nokian Hakka LT3’s with some stock steelie wheels all mounted up for $880 total out the door. No brainer? I put around 6-7000 miles on the van every winter, including a round trip from CA to CO and back at Christmas


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Originally Posted by Muggydude

Could get a full set of new Nokian Hakka LT3’s with some stock steelie wheels all mounted up for $880 total out the door.

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Do this.

My only concern might be if the snow tires might get real squirmy in warmer temps/pavement with a 10,000lb van(still have more buildout to complete)? I’d obviously get the right Load rated E tires, but I’ve heard reports of the softer winter tread itself causing weird behavior in warmer weather max of 65 F though so maybe not an issue)


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Originally Posted by Muggydude

My only concern might be if the snow tires might get real squirmy in warmer temps/pavement with a 10,000lb van(still have more buildout to complete)? I’d obviously get the right Load rated E tires, but I’ve heard reports of the softer winter tread itself causing weird behavior in warmer weather max of 65 F though so maybe not an issue)


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At 7000 miles per year on the winter tire set, under a 10K van, expect to get two winters out of a set. And they will feel squirmy in warm temps - - my 3/4-ton truck with a pop up camper was probably around 8000#, and it was noticeably squirmy on winter tires.

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Originally Posted by Muggydude

My only concern might be if the snow tires might get real squirmy in warmer temps/pavement with a 10,000lb van(still have more buildout to complete)? I’d obviously get the right Load rated E tires, but I’ve heard reports of the softer winter tread itself causing weird behavior in warmer weather max of 65 F though so maybe not an issue)


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I'll chime in with my experience running Blizzak LT's (LRE) on my Promaster. I'm probably ~7500 lbs or less fully loaded. I start noticing the softer winter tires squirming around 55F. The few times I drove it in temps approaching 70F, it was a clear difference from my all season summer tires. I felt that I needed to reduce speeds when cornering due to the handling.

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Originally Posted by snowaddict91

I felt that I needed to reduce speeds when cornering due to the handling.

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wow ! this ^^guy is a fucking genius

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Originally Posted by XXX-er

wow ! this ^^guy is a fucking genius

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Hardly. Just saying I notice the snow tires in warmer weather significantly more than the snows I've ran on lighter vehicles. Seemed pretty fucking relevant to the question at hand.

everyone will tell us their snow tires don't grip the road like their summer tires

but you sir are the only person who has suggested ...wait for it




slowing down

Muggydude thank you for the Outpost AT review!

The Hakka LT3s actually aren’t too bad on highways and in warmish weather, specifically as far as squirm is concerned, compared to my experience with some P-metric winter tires on passenger cars. I’m running anywhere from 8000-9400 lbs on my truck, though my tire size (LT275/70R18) is bigger and has a higher load index than what I think is on your van.
I generally try not to drive my truck over 70 mph (maybe I’ll cruise at 73 in a tailwind) and it’s often 65F down in the valley in April when I think about pulling them. Obviously the steering isn’t as sharp and is more vague than a summer or all season truck tire … the thing that gets me excited about switching back to my Michelins each spring is the sidewall stiffness and stability (they are also reasonably damp for how stiff they are) more than the lack of squirm. Actually I think my LT3s might even be more quiet than my LTX AT2s.

BFG k03 has amazing snow grip in an all season off road tire. Full depth sipes is awesome as well. Side lugs help deep snow.

Would be ideal for sf to Tahoe trips

Not sure they make your size. I’m waiting for mine to be produced this year hopefully.

PS. That squishy warm winter tire feeling is also the weather where your tread is wearing out super quick.

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Originally Posted by Muggydude

Got about 3000 miles on the Nokian Outpost AT’s

Very quiet and smooth on the highway. Considerably quieter than Falken AT3W. Wandered a bit the first 1000 miles til they broke in and I lowered air pressure a bit. Good now.

Stellar offroad in Moab

I’d give them a very good rating in snow. I will say they seem to slip a little more braking than my Falken AT3W’s, but it’s predictable and still quite good for a 8500lb van. Lateral traction slight nod to Falkens too, acceleration I couldn’t really tell a difference. Overall id definitely recommend them, even if the Falkens were still slightly better (but discontinued now so a moot point).

That being said, I’m debating if I should just get a dedicated winter set of tires. I only commute from the Bay Area to Tahoe and back in the winter in the van, no other driving or daily commute. First 175 miles are usually dry or wet pavement at 40-55 degrees, so they might wear a bit faster, but not too bad.

Could get a full set of new Nokian Hakka LT3’s with some stock steelie wheels all mounted up for $880 total out the door. No brainer? I put around 6-7000 miles on the van every winter, including a round trip from CA to CO and back at Christmas


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Just skip the snow tires and get some KO2-3s. 95% of your driving will be dry pavement anyway. You’ll be fine with all that weight on the rear tires.

Anybody know where I can find a tire pressure guide for LT tires? I can find the max pressure, but I’m not able to find the low pressure or what the pressure range range should be.

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Originally Posted by m[emoji638

[emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji639]][emoji637][emoji637]c;[emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji639]][emoji637][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji640]][emoji6[emoji640][emoji637]][emoji640][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji6[emoji640][emoji637]]][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji639]]]Anybody know where I can find a tire pressure guide for LT tires? I can find the max pressure, but I’m not able to find the low pressure or what the pressure range range should be.

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https://www.falkentire.com/load-inflation

I'll echo Muggydude's positive review on the Nokian Outpost nATs. I'm on my second season with them on a Ford Ranger + GFC, also driving Bay to Tahoe most weekends. They're very good in snow - very predictable. They do suffer a bit on black ice/super packed down snow but not sure what non stud does well there. I've got over 25k miles on my set already.

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Originally Posted by Name Redacted

Just skip the snow tires and get some KO2-3s. 95% of your driving will be dry pavement anyway. You’ll be fine with all that weight on the rear tires.

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Why would he get KOs if he has Outpost nATs? He was looking to further improve the snow performance... if he doesn't want snows, stick with the nATs

Studded Hakka LT3s on a Tundra. Not a heavyweight pickup but still heavyish. Hasn't seemed to squirmy up to about 50* so far. And crushes anything slick. Will put summer ATs on in the spring. I don't mind limping summer tires longer when I know in the fall, the snows go on.

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Originally Posted by Conundrum

Studded Hakka LT3s on a Tundra. Not a heavyweight pickup but still heavyish. Hasn't seemed to squirmy up to about 50* so far. And crushes anything slick. Will put summer ATs on in the spring. I don't mind limping summer tires longer when I know in the fall, the snows go on.

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Samesies. Just refreshed with my second pair. Rears wore to 40% and got me momentarily stuck in the lot on slick ice. Stupid open dif. Not anymore. Drifts, packed, ice, no problems. They absolutely rip.

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Originally Posted by SchralphMacchio

The Hakka LT3s actually aren’t too bad on highways and in warmish weather, specifically as far as squirm is concerned, compared to my experience with some P-metric winter tires on passenger cars. I’m running anywhere from 8000-9400 lbs on my truck, though my tire size (LT275/70R18) is bigger and has a higher load index than what I think is on your van.
I generally try not to drive my truck over 70 mph (maybe I’ll cruise at 73 in a tailwind) and it’s often 65F down in the valley in April when I think about pulling them. Obviously the steering isn’t as sharp and is more vague than a summer or all season truck tire … the thing that gets me excited about switching back to my Michelins each spring is the sidewall stiffness and stability (they are also reasonably damp for how stiff they are) more than the lack of squirm. Actually I think my LT3s might even be more quiet than my LTX AT2s.

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Studded Haks on truck/ SUV/ small car have always been pretty stable on pavement its the snow & ice that is a probelm so my rule of thumb is 10kph over posted limit in summer and 10kph under posted limit on snow/ ice is always safe, thats on pretty much shitty 2 lane highwy up here

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Originally Posted by summit;[emoji[emoji6[emoji640

[emoji638]][emoji640][emoji639]][emoji637][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji640]][emoji6[emoji640][emoji637]][emoji6[emoji640][emoji637]][emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji640]]]Why would he get KOs if he has Outpost nATs? He was looking to further improve the snow performance... if he doesn't want snows, stick with the nATs

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Yeah the Outposts are probably one of the top [emoji639] AT tires for winter performance.

I’m just debating if the extra safety of the winter tires is worth the (~minor) cost for a spare set and possible handling caveats for most of my ski road trips on pavement

life is cheap
but not mine

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Originally Posted by Huskier

Rears wore to 40% and got me momentarily stuck in the lot on slick ice. Stupid open dif.

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Just to clarify, 40% of total depth, or 40% on the snow traction indicators?
A couple of mine have just wore through the 60% snow traction indicators.

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Originally Posted by Muggydude

Yeah the Outposts are probably one of the top [emoji639] AT tires for winter performance.

I’m just debating if the extra safety of the winter tires is worth the (~minor) cost for a spare set and possible handling caveats for most of my ski road trips on pavement

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Yeah, that was my point, you don't need snow tires. The ATs are fine. I have Falken's and KO2s on my two trucks and never have an issue anywhere around CO. Two set of tires and wheels just doesn't make sense if most of your driving is on dry pavement and CO snow (dry). Save that money for the tow when the Sprinter breaks down because some stupid sensor in the exhaust goes bad.

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Originally Posted by Muggydude

Yeah the Outposts are probably one of the top [emoji639] AT tires for winter performance.

I’m just debating if the extra safety of the winter tires is worth the (~minor) cost for a spare set and possible handling caveats for most of my ski road trips on pavement

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With fear of people telling me that I know nothing again..... I've gotten away with AS tires on trucks since I started driving in the 90's. No accidents yet. The current crop of AT's are better than ever. I'm really happy with the K03's on my new truck.

I run dedicated winters on our SUV. I haven't tried something like the Quatrac Pro on our cars, but I have customers that run them without issue. I look at it like this: dedicated winters are cheap insurance for my wife and family. I don't want her to have to think about conditions before she goes. I know exactly what I'm getting into and think I can read conditions well. Obviously there are times I'd like to have studs on my truck, but it doesn't make sense for where/how I drive. When it's shitty and icy I give myself a lot more space.

What's really scary is what the majority of the folks coming up from the Bay are driving on. Walk around downtown Truckee and look at their tires.

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Originally Posted by Name Redacted

Yeah, that was my point, you don't need snow tires. The ATs are fine. I have Falken's and KO2s on my two trucks and never have an issue anywhere around CO. Two set of tires and wheels just doesn't make sense if most of your driving is on dry pavement and CO snow (dry). Save that money for the tow when the Sprinter breaks down because some stupid sensor in the exhaust goes bad.

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Thankfully I have a Ford transit [emoji6] love the Ecoboost engine, van has been very reliable. I’d never own a sprinter, for a ton of reasons.

I live in CA, I just travel to CO once a year.

If I lived in Colorado, I would have a set of snow tires no question. It’s a lot colder there, a lot more snow for most of the commute, shorter commute, and gets icier. When I lived there I had Blizzaks for our pickup, made a Huge difference over AT’s. Granted pickups are lighter than the van, id throw in 300 lbs in the bed but still not comparable.

I have a distinct memory of one day coming back down I-70, and it was just an ice rink. Steeper down hill portion, and almost all the cars in front and behind were literally just sliding off the shoulder left and right. Very parting of the Red Sea esque. Must have passed 20 cars over a half mile stretch off the road, and most were 4x4 SUV’s and trucks with (I’d assume) decent AT or AS tires.

It was a rare occurrence, but the winter tires definitely paid for themselves that day. Have a few more instances over the years living there where I was glad I had them.

That being said, CA is very different. Lot less ice, lot more slush and packed snow. And way more dry pavement and rain/temps above freezing. I’ve had a few instances where it was similar ice rink conditions and the van did great with the Wildpeak AT3W’s, just a little less confident how the Nokians would do in that same scenario. We’ll see

I think I’m probably going to stick with the Outposts for now. They’re certainly not lacking overall

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Originally Posted by Muggydude

Thankfully I have a Ford transit [emoji6] love the Ecoboost engine, van has been very reliable. I’d never own a sprinter, for a ton of reasons.

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Good luck with those brakes and transmission. ; ). At least you can take it south of the border and still get it fixed as needed.