The Raven - Hoji's New Masterpiece

Been eyeballing this ski for a couple years now as a daily driver for my touring set up but with Hoji saying they redesigned the Hoji to be more "in line" with the Ren and Raven it has me waffling between the Raven and Hoji now. I have a deep pow ski (Praxis Protest) so this will be all other conditions other than a deep day (foot or more). I mainly ski Tahoe, Mammoth, with some trips to the Wasatch. Anyone have any input on which direction to go? I'm kind of still leaning toward the Raven, especially for those spring days but thought I'd look for some consensus (or not).

I own the Raven as my touring ski up here in the PNW. I used to live (and ski) in CA. It would be a perfect touring ski for the Sierra’s IMHO. Specifically, it’s best in class in corn, spring slush, sunbaked snow… typical Sierra backcountry conditions…

But:
- It’s not a powder ski…
- There are a lot of better options for an inbounds DD…
- I have no idea what it weighs these days, mine are not the lightest. If your doing a lot of huge east side objectives there are more mountaineering oriented options…


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Originally Posted by nickwm21

- There are a lot of better options for an inbounds DD…

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this.

It's my goto touring ski w/ions when it's not too deep or a spring mission. I wouldn't want to be ripping around inbounds on them though. I have the 18_(4?) length. I think they are a little softer than the 19x length. wouldn't want to be smashing WB laps with them though.

I’ve skied mine (184) in over a foot of pow and they were awesome. Renegades are my all time favorite ski. Ravens are damn good. I’d actually ski the as a daily driver inbounds if I got another pair for cheap. My current touring quiver is hoji, raven and praxis yeti. I could honestly get rid of the other 2 and just ski the raven. Instead I’m searching for a cast setup for a backup pair of renegades to expand the quiver.


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I’ve had my Ravens for a few years now (the latest iteration)

They’re fun skis, but has anyone else had issues on the skin track? When things get steep and icy I can feel my butthole pucker. I sometimes wonder if a more traditional camber would be a benefit to me.

I live and ski in BC predominantly- I’ve been eyeing up some bigger objectives this year (properly steep couloirs, but nothing super difficult by TGR standards) - my question is whether the raven’s sidecut / camber profile will be sketchy in tight, steep situations. Anyone have experience here?

Thanks for the input all. This will be a touring ski so not worried about inbounds performance. In terms of powder, are you saying it’s not a deep powder ski or simply all powder? I have my Protests for the deep days but would like to travel with a single touring ski unless I know it’s gonna be deep.

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Originally Posted by Bamski

I’ve had my Ravens for a few years now (the latest iteration)

They’re fun skis, but has anyone else had issues on the skin track? When things get steep and icy I can feel my butthole pucker. I sometimes wonder if a more traditional camber would be a benefit to me.

I live and ski in BC predominantly- I’ve been eyeing up some bigger objectives this year (properly steep couloirs, but nothing super difficult by TGR standards) - my question is whether the raven’s sidecut / camber profile will be sketchy in tight, steep situations. Anyone have experience here?

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SkinCleats aka Skeats

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Originally Posted by SKIP IN7RO

SkinCleats aka Skeats

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How have I not seen these? Perfect for those days you don’t expect a refrozen skin track and didn’t pack the crampons.

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Originally Posted by GoSlowGoFar

Thanks for the input all. This will be a touring ski so not worried about inbounds performance. In terms of powder, are you saying it’s not a deep powder ski or simply all powder? I have my Protests for the deep days but would like to travel with a single touring ski unless I know it’s gonna be deep.

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Not a deep powder ski like a protest, but they ski surprise powder very well, I have a blast with them in pow

I'm selling a pair of lightly skied 190s (blue tops, the most loved version). they're a backup pair

:)

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Originally Posted by nickwm21

- It’s not a powder ski…

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Welp.. I skied 18” of fluff yesterday on my Ravens and loved every second of it. I normally ski my powder in the resort, but due to ikon blackout I had to earn it…. They don’t plane on the surface like a pure powder skis but they do get you 90% there and a plenty maneuverable for tight trees. Which is pretty impressive for a 104 waisted ski below a 205# man…



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Pretty sure you’d be loving any ski in 18” of fluff. [emoji2]

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Originally Posted by xyz

Pretty sure you’d be loving any ski in 18” of fluff. [emoji2]

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I don’t leave the house for anything less than 20”

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Originally Posted by margotron

I don’t leave the house for anything less than 20”

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That’s what she said


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Pic of my new 184cm Ravens…. mounted on the line (-6cm) with Duke PT 16s (like my Renegades). Splurged for the 4-Lock system….as I needed skins and I figured the 4-Lock skin weight saving will offset the heavier bindings. I also went with the Duke PTs as I want to ski these inbounds on soft days, with no new. Cause of the rocker. I’ve been missing rocker in the quiver. So damn fun.

I have lighter skis with Tectons for touring. And many other good skis for DD’ing at WB.

Review forthcoming after a few more days on them, hopefully in better snow.

Attachment 405288

Just gotta say the Ravens were awesome at Whistler yesterday. And apparently they can ski low-tide, hardback really well. I thought it would soften but it was really icy most of the day, from top to bottom, it did not soften anywhere.

The Duke PTs felt great with Krypton 130s. They are exactly like an alpine binding.

I was skiing a 184cm Raven. And I’m always on ~179-181cm skis. I had previously tried my son’s 177cm Hojis and they felt really short. So I bought the 184cm Raven. Mounted on the line (approx -5.9cm on re-measure). Went on the line as my 289mm bsl is pretty close to Hojis 284mm.

It’s been a few years (since spending 3 winters the Baker cabin in 2014-2017) that I’ve had a 4FRNT rockered ski in the quiver. So happy with these. The Raven shape really handled ice well. They are great as a low-tide inbounds ski with the Duke PT. They rip hard on groomers when you lay them over on edge. It’s a different way of skiing….carving with the ski rolled over, but then periodically releasing and letting the rocker slide/slarve a turn. All at very high speed. I loved it. I skied way faster. And they handled re-frozen off-piste crap better than cambered skis. Makes me excited to get on the Renegades again once the snow returns. And want a Hoji.

My take away from owning the Raven was I want a fatter version.

This place moves in such waves. We no longer even talk about 4frnt, Hoji and Renegade were such love affairs. Same with Praxis

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Originally Posted by margotron

My take away from owning the Raven was I want a fatter version.

This place moves in such waves. We no longer even talk about 4frnt, Hoji and Renegade were such love affairs. Same with Praxis

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This….I kind of fell in love again (after owning 2013 Hojis/Rens, and 2017 Rens).

I think that with me owning new 2022 Renegades (unskied due to the dry spell), the Raven made more sense than a Hoji. But you’re right, skiing the Raven today also made me want to be on a wider Hoji too.

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Originally Posted by margotron

This place moves in such waves. We no longer even talk about 4frnt, Hoji and Renegade were such love affairs. Same with Praxis

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IRL I still regularly talk to friends about these skis.
And bemoan them being shortened in the bigger sizes.
But not much else to say that hasn’t been said.

Based on all the raving here I've now skied a pair of 2019 Hojis briefly and a pair of 2021 Ravens. I was meh on the Hojis, but I've really enjoyed the Raven so far. I actually prefer noodling with them vs. charging on them. Mostly because I think the rocker ski best when you can be very precise and my skills just aren't there to drive the Hoji at the level it should be skied.

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Originally Posted by kc_7777

It’s a different way of skiing….carving with the ski rolled over

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I thought this was so true, they have tons of grip rolled over. Almost none otherwise.

Just chiming in to say that I grabbed a pair of Ravens to be my 'most days' PNW touring ski. Mounted them up with Zed 12s and finally got out on them at Stevens this week for a couple in bounds days. I didn't really intend to ski them in the resort, but honestly I love them so much that I think they are going to be my go to when skiing with the kids.

Conditions were all over the map as we haven't gotten much snow recently but it has been warm. Think a typical spring ski day. I hit hard bumps, slush, refrozen crud, corn, and heavy chopped pow. These skis are damn fun - I don't think I've ever had that much fun on any of my previous BC setups.

The skis are quite easy to ski - playful and poppy but with enough weight and rocker to float over the heavier stuff without being knocked around too much. In the really heavy pow or funky stuff I did feel like the tails were getting a little hung up, but my legs were also quite shot by then and I can't say I was skiing them too well. I would have preferred to be on a heavier and fatter ski for that run only.

One area reviews seemed to call out as the biggest downside was firm/icy conditions and edge hold. I didn't get into anything too nasty or steep but I found them to grip pretty damn well and I was able to rail them quite hard on groomers and frozen bumps. I think the main thing holding me back was less the ski and more my awareness of being on pin bindings.

All in all I've rarely had such an immediate love for a ski right out of the gate, and I'm stoked to get these things out in softer conditions. They definitely have me eyeing the Hojis for a powder touring ski as well.

Pretty much the same take. Instant love for these. I raged pretty hard on these on ice and groomers for the last few weeks. They have handled firm conditions no prob……thankful I mounted Duke PTs (and not pins) on these as they will get lots of inbounds use.

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Originally Posted by kc_7777

Pic of my new 184cm Ravens…. mounted on the line (-6cm) with Duke PT 16s (like my Renegades). Splurged for the 4-Lock system….as I needed skins and I figured the 4-Lock skin weight saving will offset the heavier bindings. I also went with the Duke PTs as I want to ski these inbounds on soft days, with no new. Cause of the rocker. I’ve been missing rocker in the quiver. So damn fun.

I have lighter skis with Tectons for touring. And many other good skis for DD’ing at WB.

Review forthcoming after a few more days on them, hopefully in better snow.

Attachment 405288

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That's the smallest roofbox ever!

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Originally Posted by jhyatt

That's the smallest roofbox ever!

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Was mid-slurp on my coffee and totally spat it out reading that. TY


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At Red Mountain for our 1st stop on the Powder Highway.

5cm dust on crust.

Skiing steeps. Tight trees.

184cm Ravens were the perfect tool.

These are a great inbounds, low-tide ski.
Attachment 406911

Agree, the Raven is surprisingly versatile. Being pretty weight conscious, I like it as a bc pow ski. Punches weigh above its weight, and is super nimble seeking out tree stashes. I keep thinking about dropping it from the quiver, but then I end up skiing it consistently every season

^^^ Oh, and yeah Red is all about steep tight trees - good Raven country for sure!

What do you think is going on with people who don’t like the Raven in hard/icy conditions as compared to people who love it in the same conditions?


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Originally Posted by dub_xion

What do you think is going on with people who don’t like the Raven in hard/icy conditions as compared to people who love it in the same conditions?

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My take... As long as you can get a good edge in and you totally roll them over onto their full edge (the whole reflectech thing), then they're pretty darn fun. Think fresh corduroy.
If it's truly hard or full-on icy, then (for me) they become rather sketchy - like any reverse cambered ski in those conditions. The shape just works against you, as there is just very little bite given no camber, and very little sidecut. Kind of feels like skiing on a boot edge.

Just finished a 7 day powder highway trip.

Skied 5 days at Red and Whitewater. For 2 days it was too frickin cold to ski. Didn’t venture out to Fernie or Kicking Horse due to the cold. Stayed in Rossland and drank wine/beer and visited friends.

We got a few cm in the first two days and then nothing.

So no pow this year.

Brought 5 skis with me: 4FRNT Renegade, Dynastar Proto 118, Salomon Blank, 4FRNT Raven and Dynastar M-Free 99.

All 5 days were spent on the Raven. It absolutely rips. Skied lots of steeps, chalky bumps, tight trees, chutes, and groomers back to the lift. Didn’t go back to the truck and grab the M-Free 99….as the Raven performed remarkably well in all these conditions.

The 184cm Raven skis like a 180cm. Duke PT 16s working super well. I have 8 solid inbounds days on mine - no issues. Perfect with my Dalbello Krypton 130s for skiing inbounds.

Could be some skis in my quiver being sold….and Hojis for sure on my wish list.

Attachment 407607

Ravens. So good. I was planning on touring yesterday so I brought my ravens with ions. Inbounds turned out to be super legit so I just rallied inbound pow laps. Amazing ski, I didn’t feel held back at all. The tourlock system is great too, dumping so much skin weight. Im thinking of getting another pair and putting some super light touring bindings and use them as big touring day setup.

Is there a source of the Hoji hole skin vs. Free2.0 normal tail weight difference? Genuinely curious

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Originally Posted by Get.Kronk

Is there a source of the Hoji hole skin vs. Free2.0 normal tail weight difference? Genuinely curious

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Somewhere in the tourlock propaganda I’ve seen Hoji state the savings. Something like 20%.

After years of testing, Eric found that by placing the hole in the rocker zone 20cm’s from the tail, he could reduce his skin length by up to 12% to improve uphill efficiency without affecting the skis downhill performance. This reduced skin length weighs in at less than 240g per skin and folds up impossibly compact, saving you more weight on your feet and more space in your pack than any other set up on the market.

https://4frnt.com/products/raven4lock

"Years of testing"??

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Originally Posted by meter-man

"Years of testing"??

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I mean, have you met Hoji? This checks out

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Originally Posted by meter-man

After years of testing, Eric found that by placing the hole in the rocker zone 20cm’s from the tail, he could reduce his skin length by up to 12% to improve uphill efficiency without affecting the skis downhill performance. This reduced skin length weighs in at less than 240g per skin and folds up impossibly compact, saving you more weight on your feet and more space in your pack than any other set up on the market.

https://4frnt.com/products/raven4lock

"Years of testing"??

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It’s a sweet setup. Easily stuffing the tiny skins into your jacket pockets each lap is a nice bonus.

I’m actually thinking of getting a second pair and putting my super light rando bindings on them. With the lighter skins you can get away with more ski weight.

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Originally Posted by xyz

It’s a sweet setup. Easily stuffing the tiny skins into your jacket pockets each lap is a nice bonus.

I’m actually thinking of getting a second pair and putting my super light rando bindings on them. With the lighter skins you can get away with more ski weight.

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I just got some 191 Hojis with the 4-lock. My thinking exactly on the ski weight and bindings. We'll see! I'm amped. Skins are impossibly tiny. Putting on Moment Voyager 14s (ATK FR14s).

But, really, it was the 12% length reduction that sold me on the whole set-up! ;)

For real, I had 184 Ravens, and liked them but thought the skis would be way better at 190 and 114 underfoot - at least for my use in the Sierra Nevada backcountry. Well, the new Hoji is dang close! Psyched.

How does the back part lock? I'm not understanding from the pictures in that link, are there any that explain it better?

Yeah, watch this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gjquVYZLljs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4pZU0EFPaQ0

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Originally Posted by meter-man

I just got some 191 Hojis with the 4-lock. My thinking exactly on the ski weight and bindings. We'll see! I'm amped. Skins are impossibly tiny. Putting on Moment Voyager 14s (ATK FR14s).

But, really, it was the 12% length reduction that sold me on the whole set-up! ;)

For real, I had 184 Ravens, and liked them but thought the skis would be way better at 190 and 114 underfoot - at least for my use in the Sierra Nevada backcountry. Well, the new Hoji is dang close! Psyched.

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191 Hojis weighing in at a beefy 2173 and 2193 grams (in plastic still). About 120g over 4FRNT spec. Hmm…

Oh well - I’m sure I won’t regret it on the downs.


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