Fucked up shoulder

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Originally Posted by Dantheman

Just the impact wearing a sling all night has on my sleep has probably made my T and HGH take a big hit. There's certainly an argument to made that just correcting that deficit until you get back to sleeping properly is a pretty reasonable thing to do.

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I'm sure you can justify just about anything, but FFS, maybe it's your body just doing it's thing. I've accepted I'm 44 now and won't be charging as hard as I was when I was 34 but I'm having just as much fun, if not more, because I'm not chasing that dragon. I think considering AAS during recovery to maintain muscle is just silly. It'd definitely not a message I would want to be sending to my kids.

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Originally Posted by Dantheman

That paper certainly doesn't make me *less* interested. Better outcomes across the board with little to no reported side effects. You do have to wonder if the results from "multimorbid" patients would translate to fit people, but it's not like this isn't happening with elite athletes. Just the impact wearing a sling all night has on my sleep has probably made my T and HGH take a big hit. There's certainly an argument to made that just correcting that deficit until you get back to sleeping properly is a pretty reasonable thing to do.

I definitely agree with californiagrown that in a focused context and done with the right physician there's basically no risk. The only question seems to be how much upside is there when considered against the cost and hassle. If my doc offered it up saying he's seen it work, it's his standard protocol for people 40+, and the cost was reasonable I probably wouldn't hesitate. But, I'm not about to spend time and energy going doctor shopping to make that happen. That effort is better spent on PT and recovery.

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That is where I was so I decided the hassle wasn’t worth it. Knowing your work ethic from threads here you will recover fine whatever decision you make.


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Originally Posted by californiagrown

the thing i always hear is that unless your doc is knowledgable about AAS and their application in sports, they will almost always just wave off the suggestion and warn against it. Its not taught in med school, and its not part of continuing education (because its illegal and not approved so the studies are limited) so unless they are interested/involved in that niche, most will just wave it off because of lack of knowledge.

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AAS are absolutely not illegal. Scheduled, yes, like any other prescription drug, but not illegal. They haven't been studied enough because of social stigma around PEDs and all of them being long off-patent, legality has nothing to do with it.

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Originally Posted by Touring_Sedan

I'm sure you can justify just about anything, but FFS, maybe it's your body just doing it's thing. I've accepted I'm 44 now and won't be charging as hard as I was when I was 34 but I'm having just as much fun, if not more, because I'm not chasing that dragon. I think considering AAS during recovery to maintain muscle is just silly. It'd definitely not a message I would want to be sending to my kids.

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I fail to see how utilizing a (hypothetically) safe and efficacious medical treatment to improve recovery after major surgery sets a bad example for kids. Would you feel the same way if, say, stem cells get dialed in and a few injections could safely and reliably cut weeks or months off your recovery time? I don't see how it's any different.

To be clear, this is all academic as I have no plans to seriously seek out AAS treatment. I do think it's very interesting to discuss, though, and wish it would get rigorously studied so we didn't have to leave so much to speculation. Perhaps we're talking past each other.

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Originally Posted by Dantheman

AAS are absolutely not illegal. Scheduled, yes, like any other prescription drug, but not illegal. They haven't been studied enough because of social stigma around PEDs and all of them being long off-patent, legality has nothing to do with it.



I fail to see how utilizing a (hypothetically) safe and efficacious medical treatment to improve recovery after major surgery sets a bad example for kids. Would you feel the same way if, say, stem cells get dialed in and a few injections could safely and reliably cut weeks or months off your recovery time? I don't see how it's any different.

To be clear, this is all academic as I have no plans to seriously seek out AAS treatment. I do think it's very interesting to discuss, though, and wish it would get rigorously studied so we didn't have to leave so much to speculation. Perhaps we're talking past each other.

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I don't think we are talking by each other. The word "procurement" was thrown around multiple times in this conversation. You don't procure drugs from a doctor. You can backpedal and talk about research all you want. I'm not buying it.

No one is is talking about doing anything outside of a legit medical setting.

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Originally Posted by Dantheman

No one is is talking about doing anything outside of a legit medical setting.

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Bullshit. Shall I quote the peptide post from a few days ago?

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Originally Posted by Touring_Sedan

Bullshit. Shall I quote the peptide post from a few days ago?

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What is your issue? All you have done is yell down from your step stool. Yes, procurement was as issue for me, the doc I would have had to go to was not local, therefore another issue I didn’t want to deal with. It’s not a big bad boogie man word you’re making it out to be. Drop some studies in the doses and setting being discussed showing how bad it is to strengthen your argument. I’m all for looking at all sides, notice the study I dropped was very neutral. Chastising people here is not a good look for you here.


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Originally Posted by Touring_Sedan

Bullshit. Shall I quote the peptide post from a few days ago?

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The ones where californiagrown and myself both said categorically that they were too experimental without enough evidence for safety and efficacy and it's not something we'd try? Sure, go ahead.

Moving on, the nerve block is certainly long gone by now and pain level is still 0/10. Feeling great other than boredom and lack of quality sleep. Been peeing tons at night for some reason.

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Originally Posted by Dantheman

The ones where californiagrown and myself both said categorically that they were too experimental without enough evidence for safety and efficacy and it's not something we'd try? Sure, go ahead.

Moving on, the nerve block is certainly long gone by now and pain level is still 0/10. Feeling great other than boredom and lack of quality sleep. Been peeing tons at night for some reason.

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Body removing toxins possibly. Can you not go on walks? Seems some movement would help the boredom and sleep.


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Oh I'm definitely walking and being up and about plenty. You still get bored, though it's certainly better than what you went through. The sleep issues are from having to wear a sling all night and not being able to sleep in my preferred position (stomach).

Gotcha. I did mind games and puzzles to keep the brain moving. Happy healing man! You’ll be back to full strength DTM in no time.


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Originally Posted by Dantheman

Moving on, the nerve block is certainly long gone by now and pain level is still 0/10. Feeling great other than boredom and lack of quality sleep.

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FKNA!

Took the kid hiking around Alta looking at rusty stuff and making off color jokes about broken ankles.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...85b51ead93.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...8532315fef.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...0eaa708490.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...5cef1cabf4.jpg

Alta ski patrol are assholes for putting dynamite in poor Thalls boots and then blowing up Chads afterwards. Glad to see Mackdawg and crew built it back up.


Glad to see youre up and about, and stable. thats huge. I had a few more things fixed in my shoulder 18years ago now, but i was fucking flattened in horrible pain for a week+ and there is absolutely no possible way i could have had my shoulder jostled at all. Just sitting up or slowly moving around the house was excruciating, let alone hiking steep trails with loose footing.... thats making me cringe from memory. Looks like youre still managing to put the hurt on Jr leading that uphill haha! A hike like that is good for the mind, good for the body. Keep that healing momentum going!

I've been reading this thread and was fully prepared for DTM to be in a lot of pain and have to take care of him, A LOT.
That has not been the case.
We're on day six post op and he hasn't said a word about anything being painful.
He was walking laps in the backyard and up and down the stairs the afternoon and evening of surgery.
When he said they were going hiking yesterday I did remind him though that he CANNOT take a fall ;)

What a guy, so brave

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Originally Posted by Dantheman

AAS are absolutely not illegal. Scheduled, yes, like any other prescription drug, but not illegal. They haven't been studied enough because of social stigma around PEDs and all of them being long off-patent, legality has nothing to do with it.



I fail to see how utilizing a (hypothetically) safe and efficacious medical treatment to improve recovery after major surgery sets a bad example for kids. Would you feel the same way if, say, stem cells get dialed in and a few injections could safely and reliably cut weeks or months off your recovery time? I don't see how it's any different.

To be clear, this is all academic as I have no plans to seriously seek out AAS treatment. I do think it's very interesting to discuss, though, and wish it would get rigorously studied so we didn't have to leave so much to speculation. Perhaps we're talking past each other.

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It took decades of estrogen replacement therapy to figure out it significantly increased cancer risk.

It's widely regarded now that the WHI data was misinterpreted. At most, it caused a statistically significant but clinically meaningless increase in the rate of breast cancer with no corresponding increase in cancer deaths. Meanwhile, untold numbers of women avoid or are denied HRT to treat their menopause symptoms and suffer needlessly.

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Originally Posted by Dantheman

It's widely regarded now that the WHI data was misinterpreted. At most, it caused a statistically significant but clinically meaningless increase in the rate of breast cancer with no corresponding increase in cancer deaths. Meanwhile, untold numbers of women avoid or are denied HRT to treat their menopause symptoms and suffer needlessly.

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not to shit on doctors (because they know lots more than myself about the full range of medical issues), but this is what im talking about with my concern that most Doctors, unless they have particular interest in the niche, will just handwave away the mere question about AAS (or any understudied/overabused niche). Its such a difficult call to know whether a doctor is dangerously proselytizing something new, or if they are warning against something because of a lack of, or outdated education on the subject. And its tough to take it on the burden of the education myself because even if i had the time to fully read up on all the studies, i dont have the necessary medical/biology/stats background to full understand their meaning (and god knows ive been wrong before self-diagnosing).


Anywhoo, are you still pain free for the most part? When do they start you on PT and (i would assume) passive motion?

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Originally Posted by californiagrown

not to shit on doctors (because they know lots more than myself about the full range of medical issues), but this is what im talking about with my concern that most Doctors, unless they have particular interest in the niche, will just handwave away the mere question about AAS (or any understudied/overabused niche). Its such a difficult call to know whether a doctor is dangerously proselytizing something new, or if they are warning against something because of a lack of, or outdated education on the subject. And its tough to take it on the burden of the education myself because even if i had the time to fully read up on all the studies, i dont have the necessary medical/biology/stats background to full understand their meaning (and god knows ive been wrong before self-diagnosing).


Anywhoo, are you still pain free for the most part? When do they start you on PT and (i would assume) passive motion?

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Wikipedia is a reliable, comprehensive, even-handed source for controversial medical subjects. What it won't do is tell you what to do.

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Originally Posted by old goat

Wikipedia is a reliable, comprehensive, even-handed source for controversial medical subjects. What it won't do is tell you what to do.

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Funny how that worked out huh? Wikipedia is one of the shining examples of the "good" inherent in human beings. We organically managed to compile the worlds knowledge of pretty much any person/place/thing into one place, for free, with remarkable accuracy and it is pretty much all opensourced and self-policed. crazy.

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Originally Posted by californiagrown

Funny how that worked out huh? Wikipedia is one of the shining examples of the "good" inherent in human beings. We organically managed to compile the worlds knowledge of pretty much any person/place/thing into one place, for free, with remarkable accuracy and it is pretty much all opensourced and self-policed. crazy.

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And being stolen by AI.

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Originally Posted by californiagrown

Anywhoo, are you still pain free for the most part? When do they start you on PT and (i would assume) passive motion?

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Yeah, feeling pretty great. Per post-op instructions I've been doing some simple passive ROM stuff since Saturday. Post-op appt with the ortho tomorrow, first real PT appt is next week.

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Originally Posted by californiagrown

Funny how that worked out huh? Wikipedia is one of the shining examples of the "good" inherent in human beings. We organically managed to compile the worlds knowledge of pretty much any person/place/thing into one place, for free, with remarkable accuracy and it is pretty much all opensourced and self-policed. crazy.

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My GP googled some shit in the middle of my last annual physical.

"This was one worst shoulders I've ever seen."

I didn't ask how many he's seen, but it's a lot. Passive ROM for now, real PT starts in a month. He got caught in traffic so was behind and in a hurry, so I didn't get to ask about recovery enhancers, but I'm pretty sure I know the answer.

Spur of the moment called up "THE shoulder ortho" for my major metro area to get an appt scheduled to see what my options were as im sick of dealing with 50% function of my dominant arm at 36yrs old. He randomly had a cancelation opening for 8am this morning. Perfect. I go in, they take a few more xrays of the shoulder as a follow up to 2022's xrays and MRI which had revealed multiple labrum tears and significant arthritis. Doctor comes in, takes one look at the xrays and says "if you were 20 yrs older this is a perfect case study for full shoulder arthroplasty, but, since youre young lets look at some other options." Perfect, thats exactly what im looking for. His ultimate recommendation, which he seemed very confident about is an "Interpositional arthroplasty using dermal allograft"... basically slap some cadaver tissue around the ball of the humerous to act as short term cartilage (my body would also build tissue onto the cadaver tissue). Recovery would be ~3months and the time to it wearing out would be entirely dependent on use/abuse, but he thinks i could easily get 5-10 years of basically full function back. The Cherry on top is that he thinks he could probably get me in w/in 2 weeks. My wife did just throw a damper on things when she told me she is planning a surprise trip at the end of september and wants me to wait until afterwards... but refuses to tell me what the trip is because it will ruin the surprise. id rather not push recovery into January, so thinking about just rolling the dice and getting it done before that trip.

X-ray Findings: The glenohumeral joint show severe significant chonromalacia. Narrowing of the joint space. Inferior osteophytes. No fractures or dislocations of the glenohumeral joint. AC joint shows mild to moderate arthrosis.