the answer to "WTF is wrong with my boots?"

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Originally Posted by Falcon3

OK folks, need some help. I've gotten less than awesome advice on boots before from local shops and thought I'd check in here.

At the end of every touring day, I have excruciating pain on the outside (lateral edge) of my right foot, posterior to my 5th metatarsal. I'm pretty sure this is called a 6th toe, but rather than a single spot, I have a massive pad of tissue hanging way out there, going almost all the way back to my 5th tarsal/met joint just in front of my ankle. I've had my boots punched several times and while it's gotten better, it's still not great. Yesterday after a simple 4 hour/2500ft tour, I was barely able to put weight on my foot. During a tour, the outside of my foot often goes numb and i have to wiggle my toes to get feeling back. I am a pronator, this foot it mostly flat, so I know the tendency of the foot will be to splay outward laterally, which *should* be solved by the insole.

Boots are Hawx XTD 120 27.5 with Intuition Pro Tour 27. I also have some Tour Wraps in 28 I'm going to try out for a different issue.

Footbeds are Sidas customs, molded unweighted, posted with cork. My foot hangs off the edge of these because the shop I bought them from trimmed them to match the sole of my liner, not my foot.

Is this another simple punch? Should I try new footbeds that actually match the outline of my foot? Any help is greatly appreciated.

Attachment 396863Attachment 396864Attachment 396865

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seems like trying another footebed (from shoes?) is cheap, easier and less permanate than a punch?

Feet measure ~256 & ~255mm. About average width. High (but not crazy high) instep. Right foot is a smidge (1-2mm) wider.

Skiing resort in a new Promachine 130 with custom foot beds in a 24.5. I have probably 9 days on them, they ski great! I usually use a thin dissent or smart wool sock. Shell fit is in the ~10mm neighborhood.

First couple of days I didn’t notice anything unexpected from new “performance fitting”boots. (That is to say, not exactly comfortable, but no real hot spots or pain) Got set up by one of the town’s better fitters, he didn’t think any work was needed shell wise, so we heat molded the liners and I went on my way.

I’ve noticed these boots are super cold. I always unbuckle my boots for the lift. This worked well for our average temperature days, but lately with the colder weather we’ve been getting in BC, it’s been uncomfortable - bordering on mildly painful. I bit the bullet and put some heaters in, and while they definitely keep me skiing - the discomfort is still there.

Yesterday in -17C, I picked up some mild frostnip on the tips of my 2nd and 4th toes, as well as on the outside of my big toe. I’ve ducked out of touring today to avoid making it worse :(

Some notes for those interested:

- I wear a thin sock
- I have a custom footbed
- I use foot powder to keep my feet dry
- I put my socks on in the parking lot, rather than first thing in the morning
- My right foot has the issues (very slightly shorter and wider). My left foot usually feels fine after skiing. (No frostnip there). The left foot may feel cold, but it doesn’t get to nearly the same level as the right. With boot heaters it’s a non-issue
- Some discomfort under the ball of the right foot.

Before I take these back to my fitter - any suggestions? I’m wondering if the snugness of the fit is restricting circulation over my higher instep. The nordica liners have these little punchable windows over the instep which can be cut out - would that negatively impact performance? Could it be a width issue?

Thanks for reading

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bamski

Feet measure ~256 & ~255mm. About average width. High (but not crazy high) instep. Right foot is a smidge (1-2mm) wider.

Skiing resort in a new Promachine 130 with custom foot beds in a 24.5. I have probably 9 days on them, they ski great! I usually use a thin dissent or smart wool sock. Shell fit is in the ~10mm neighborhood.

First couple of days I didn’t notice anything unexpected from new “performance fitting”boots. (That is to say, not exactly comfortable, but no real hot spots or pain) Got set up by one of the town’s better fitters, he didn’t think any work was needed shell wise, so we heat molded the liners and I went on my way.

I’ve noticed these boots are super cold. I always unbuckle my boots for the lift. This worked well for our average temperature days, but lately with the colder weather we’ve been getting in BC, it’s been uncomfortable - bordering on mildly painful. I bit the bullet and put some heaters in, and while they definitely keep me skiing - the discomfort is still there.

Yesterday in -17C, I picked up some mild frostnip on the tips of my 2nd and 4th toes, as well as on the outside of my big toe. I’ve ducked out of touring today to avoid making it worse :(

Some notes for those interested:

- I wear a thin sock
- I have a custom footbed
- I use foot powder to keep my feet dry
- I put my socks on in the parking lot, rather than first thing in the morning
- My right foot has the issues (very slightly shorter and wider). My left foot usually feels fine after skiing. (No frostnip there). The left foot may feel cold, but it doesn’t get to nearly the same level as the right. With boot heaters it’s a non-issue
- Some discomfort under the ball of the right foot.

Before I take these back to my fitter - any suggestions? I’m wondering if the snugness of the fit is restricting circulation over my higher instep. The nordica liners have these little punchable windows over the instep which can be cut out - would that negatively impact performance? Could it be a width issue?

Thanks for reading

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you know why your feet got cold?

Cuz its F'ing cold outside!

add boot gloves, or heated socks, or heated insoles.

With a boot that snug, its skis great, but limited room for blood flow.

might be small other things a fitter can do, but -17 is just cold. (I'm in banff, familiar wtih both boot fitting and cold temps)

Getting ready for a fitting and want to really make sure I get the most out of it.
Earlier speculation was my shells could be too large. Lange RX 97 in 27.5
My heel has a spur shape, so the contact point of my foot is shorter.
Feet measure 26.5 to 27.5 depending on precision and heel spur length. Heel spur makes hard contact.
Arch 29 mm. Forefoot is 99mm. Ankles and legs are skinny.

At least one cant/rotation feels off. Always felt too upright. The heel lift has helped.
The problem started with intense pressure on my arch, solved that.
Then intense pressure, numbness, fire feeling on my metatarsal area, heel lift helped some, but when I relax forward knee drive it returns.
Space behind my lower leg below spoiler.


I have about 15mm fore aft, maybe a little less.

Your thoughts are really appreciated! Helping reduce pain is an amazing gift!

Attachment 398389
Attachment 398388

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RollGybe

Getting ready for a fitting and want to really make sure I get the most out of it.
Earlier speculation was my shells could be too large. Lange RX 97 in 27.5
My heel has a spur shape, so the contact point of my foot is shorter.
Feet measure 26.5 to 27.5 depending on precision and heel spur length. Heel spur makes hard contact.
Arch 29 mm. Forefoot is 99mm. Ankles and legs are skinny.

At least one cant/rotation feels off. Always felt too upright. The heel lift has helped.
The problem started with intense pressure on my arch, solved that.
Then intense pressure, numbness, fire feeling on my metatarsal area, heel lift helped some, but when I relax forward knee drive it returns.
Space behind my lower leg below spoiler.


I have about 15mm fore aft, maybe a little less.

Your thoughts are really appreciated! Helping reduce pain is an amazing gift!

Attachment 398389
Attachment 398388

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overall the boots are too big, and foot is moving and the friction is causing the heel spur?

Stabilize the foot with a smaller shell, shorter shell, and maybe better footbed

getting a smaller pair, (maybe more supportive footbed?) will help prevent the foot from moving around and making that heel spur worse, and then grind a small pocket to accommodate the heel spur, once it stops banging around.

Thank you. Sounds about right.

The heel spur is just the natural shape of my foot. It is a bony point; not an injury.
I wear out the tops of the heels in my shoes; it's just strange normally, but definitley affects the length of my foot for this conversation.

I think I needed to size up to accommodate my arch volume, but this resulted too much volume in other places.

In pow, I can feel the boots float around my ankles a little. In other conditions once I'm not jammed into forward flex, my met pad burns like fire.
The bootfitter told me "buckle the cuff tighter, smart guy" but the pressure ended up on my shin, not the back of my leg. Resulted in a bulb of fluid buildup above my boot shin.

So, I think there's some shell size, top of arch volume compromising going on. But when it comes to bootfitting, I am almost always wrong!

So I usually ski a ZB or a ZA depending on how cold it is. It’s the only boot that has worked for me for quite a few seasons for inbounds use.

Today I tried to ski a krypton with a fat zipfit so the fit was tight as can be, but gosh I skied like complete ass compared to skiing my plugs. On groomers everything was fine, but in variable or bumps the difference was huge.

Am I just too used to the precision and power of the plugs? Am I destined to spend the rest of my skiing days in PU prison?

any one else have to tighten top buckles as day goes on?

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bamski

Feet measure ~256 & ~255mm. About average width. High (but not crazy high) instep. Right foot is a smidge (1-2mm) wider.

Skiing resort in a new Promachine 130 with custom foot beds in a 24.5. I have probably 9 days on them, they ski great! I usually use a thin dissent or smart wool sock. Shell fit is in the ~10mm neighborhood.

First couple of days I didn’t notice anything unexpected from new “performance fitting”boots. (That is to say, not exactly comfortable, but no real hot spots or pain) Got set up by one of the town’s better fitters, he didn’t think any work was needed shell wise, so we heat molded the liners and I went on my way.

I’ve noticed these boots are super cold. I always unbuckle my boots for the lift. This worked well for our average temperature days, but lately with the colder weather we’ve been getting in BC, it’s been uncomfortable - bordering on mildly painful. I bit the bullet and put some heaters in, and while they definitely keep me skiing - the discomfort is still there.

Yesterday in -17C, I picked up some mild frostnip on the tips of my 2nd and 4th toes, as well as on the outside of my big toe. I’ve ducked out of touring today to avoid making it worse :(

Some notes for those interested:

- I wear a thin sock
- I have a custom footbed
- I use foot powder to keep my feet dry
- I put my socks on in the parking lot, rather than first thing in the morning
- My right foot has the issues (very slightly shorter and wider). My left foot usually feels fine after skiing. (No frostnip there). The left foot may feel cold, but it doesn’t get to nearly the same level as the right. With boot heaters it’s a non-issue
- Some discomfort under the ball of the right foot.

Before I take these back to my fitter - any suggestions? I’m wondering if the snugness of the fit is restricting circulation over my higher instep. The nordica liners have these little punchable windows over the instep which can be cut out - would that negatively impact performance? Could it be a width issue?

Thanks for reading

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Boot gloves and electric socks. -27c and smiling [emoji28]https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...999922bf81.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...d46f7a01cb.jpg

Lähetetty minun LYA-L29 laitteesta Tapatalkilla

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mr_pretzel

So I usually ski a ZB or a ZA depending on how cold it is. It’s the only boot that has worked for me for quite a few seasons for inbounds use.

Today I tried to ski a krypton with a fat zipfit so the fit was tight as can be, but gosh I skied like complete ass compared to skiing my plugs. On groomers everything was fine, but in variable or bumps the difference was huge.

Am I just too used to the precision and power of the plugs? Am I destined to spend the rest of my skiing days in PU prison?

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a BUNCH of changes

you moved from 95mm? to 98mm

from 2 piece shell to 3p shell (the way it flexes is different)

odds are F lean is different .

only had 1 day to try to make this work

so

1) give it a bit more time

2) what is WRONG with the plus? it fits, it works, it skis well. Trying to solve problems that dont exist?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Falcon3

OK folks, need some help. I've gotten less than awesome advice on boots before from local shops and thought I'd check in here.

At the end of every touring day, I have excruciating pain on the outside (lateral edge) of my right foot, posterior to my 5th metatarsal. I'm pretty sure this is called a 6th toe, but rather than a single spot, I have a massive pad of tissue hanging way out there, going almost all the way back to my 5th tarsal/met joint just in front of my ankle. I've had my boots punched several times and while it's gotten better, it's still not great. Yesterday after a simple 4 hour/2500ft tour, I was barely able to put weight on my foot. During a tour, the outside of my foot often goes numb and i have to wiggle my toes to get feeling back. I am a pronator, this foot it mostly flat, so I know the tendency of the foot will be to splay outward laterally, which *should* be solved by the insole.

Boots are Hawx XTD 120 27.5 with Intuition Pro Tour 27. I also have some Tour Wraps in 28 I'm going to try out for a different issue.

Footbeds are Sidas customs, molded unweighted, posted with cork. My foot hangs off the edge of these because the shop I bought them from trimmed them to match the sole of my liner, not my foot.

Is this another simple punch? Should I try new footbeds that actually match the outline of my foot? Any help is greatly appreciated.

Attachment 396863Attachment 396864Attachment 396865

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I the outside of your foot has no upward movement, this may rock your world-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrSQiQrAb5E

See the part about cuboid manipulation/mobilization . IME the best people to do this are chiropractors,

If this doesn’t help you need to make space underneath by grinding your footbed paper thin under the fifth met head. Or seeing the footbeds are already too narrow, trim them more to let the fifth drop down.

I have a pair of boots that seems to have a rivet sticking out way too far and is cutting into the liner/my foot when touring, no issue skiing lift served.

Attachment 399719
Attachment 399720
Attachment 399718

It seems like there should have been a countersink in the plastic or something on the liner to prevent this (like on my TLT5).

I'm not 100% sure that I can grind the rivet down enough and still have it hold. Looks almost like I could drill the rivet and fill the hole with epoxy as that rivet is just to hold the flap on? Was also thinking I could just cover it with a piece of plastic/metal on the liner?

Is that something that a bootfitter could punch out?

Thanks!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by metalltrilogy

I have a pair of boots that seems to have a rivet sticking out way too far and is cutting into the liner/my foot when touring, no issue skiing lift served.

Attachment 399719
Attachment 399720
Attachment 399718

It seems like there should have been a countersink in the plastic or something on the liner to prevent this (like on my TLT5).

I'm not 100% sure that I can grind the rivet down enough and still have it hold. Looks almost like I could drill the rivet and fill the hole with epoxy as that rivet is just to hold the flap on? Was also thinking I could just cover it with a piece of plastic/metal on the liner?

Is that something that a bootfitter could punch out?

Thanks!

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Do you have a footbed in the boot already? Could be caused by too much pronating while you tour, especially if you're keeping the boots fairly loose while you tour.

Still seems like an oversight from the manufacturer, but you may reduce the severity of the issue by ensuring the foot isn't collapsing too far while walking. This hypothesis is somewhat supported by the fact that it happens less while you're skiing lift access.

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Originally Posted by DarthMarkus

Do you have a footbed in the boot already? Could be caused by too much pronating while you tour, especially if you're keeping the boots fairly loose while you tour.

Still seems like an oversight from the manufacturer, but you may reduce the severity of the issue by ensuring the foot isn't collapsing too far while walking. This hypothesis is somewhat supported by the fact that it happens less while you're skiing lift access.

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Interesting, I hadn't thought of pronation causing the issue. There are footbeds in there, I cannot remember if they are the stock ones or superfeet. Boot stays pretty tight on the way up, I mostly just switch to walk mode for the down small to no change in the buckles.

Is the fix for that mostly mental or a more supportive footbed?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by metalltrilogy

Interesting, I hadn't thought of pronation causing the issue. There are footbeds in there, I cannot remember if they are the stock ones or superfeet. Boot stays pretty tight on the way up, I mostly just switch to walk mode for the down small to no change in the buckles.

Is the fix for that mostly mental or a more supportive footbed?

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I wouldn't say that I'm 100% that it's the cause. If you already have a real football in there, then it may not be the case. If it's stock, maybe look into it.

Otherwise, it's not uncommon to see more pronation when you walk - it's a fairly normal, and taking it away completely is often uncomfortable for people. You could try a more supportive option, but there's also usually a balance to aim for in touring boots between support coming down, and making sure that you don't have such a stuff footbed that you're just poking your arch on the way up.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by DarthMarkus

I wouldn't say that I'm 100% that it's the cause. If you already have a real football in there, then it may not be the case. If it's stock, maybe look into it.

Otherwise, it's not uncommon to see more pronation when you walk - it's a fairly normal, and taking it away completely is often uncomfortable for people. You could try a more supportive option, but there's also usually a balance to aim for in touring boots between support coming down, and making sure that you don't have such a stuff footbed that you're just poking your arch on the way up.

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I'll swap a real footbed in and see, if it's not already in there! Any tips for fixing/reinforcing the liner? It's almost eaten through already...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by metalltrilogy

I'll swap a real footbed in and see, if it's not already in there! Any tips for fixing/reinforcing the liner? It's almost eaten through already...

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I always tape over the rivets inside the shells, even the ones which are perfectly flush like to munch on the liner. Maybe put a tiny round piece of foam on the thin spot in the liner and another piece of tape over it. Liner tape should happily slide on shell tape afterwards...

Anyone have issues with the thin flex zone built around the ankle of Intuition Pro Tour liners? In theory it's great to have thinner material there to allow a better ROM but fuck if it doesn't put my the inside of my ankle bone (the malleolus I guess) directly against the shell. I have particularly fucked up feet but I had no issues with the stock liner of my Tecnica ZeroG which didn't have this fancy cutout. Now my ankles are getting murdered. I have a bunch of bootfitting foam pieces (C-pads, L-pads, donuts) but they don't want to stick to the mesh material of the cutout and I'm not sure how to approach the issue.
Pic below since I'm not sure how clear my description is. Ankle bone is right at the edge of the meshy material.

Attachment 399757

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Boissal

I always tape over the rivets inside the shells, even the ones which are perfectly flush like to munch on the liner. Maybe put a tiny round piece of foam on the thin spot in the liner and another piece of tape over it. Liner tape should happily slide on shell tape afterwards...

Anyone have issues with the thin flex zone built around the ankle of Intuition Pro Tour liners? In theory it's great to have thinner material there to allow a better ROM but fuck if it doesn't put my the inside of my ankle bone (the malleolus I guess) directly against the shell. I have particularly fucked up feet but I had no issues with the stock liner of my Tecnica ZeroG which didn't have this fancy cutout. Now my ankles are getting murdered. I have a bunch of bootfitting foam pieces (C-pads, L-pads, donuts) but they don't want to stick to the mesh material of the cutout and I'm not sure how to approach the issue.
Pic below since I'm not sure how clear my description is. Ankle bone is right at the edge of the meshy material.

Attachment 399757

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Yes, I tried pro tours and had the same issue. Back to Alpine and Luxury liners, which along with being way more comfortable, ski better, and seem to walk equally well.

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Originally Posted by kootenayskier

Yes, I tried pro tours and had the same issue. Back to Alpine and Luxury liners, which along with being way more comfortable, ski better, and seem to walk equally well.

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Interesting. So far my first foray into Intuition has not be the come-to-Jeebus everyone seems to experience. I wish I had looked for another pair of stock liners instead, people apparently throw those out without ever skiing them. They treated me really well for 60ish days, better than the Intuitions, and my toes even survived a Fairy Meadows trip with polar January temps in those things.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Boissal

Interesting. So far my first foray into Intuition has not be the come-to-Jeebus everyone seems to experience. I wish I had looked for another pair of stock liners instead, people apparently throw those out without ever skiing them. They treated me really well for 60ish days, better than the Intuitions, and my toes even survived a Fairy Meadows trip with polar January temps in those things.

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What size are you? Have some unused zgtp liners from a 26.5 boot gathering dust in the garage if you want.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by fleaches

What size are you? Have some unused zgtp liners from a 26.5 boot gathering dust in the garage if you want.

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26.5! I'll PM you, name your price!

I am wondering if anyone has advice about stretching/punchig the instep on a Tecnica Mach 1?

I have a pair of Mach 1 120 MVs (newest version with the T-Drive plate) and it's become apparent that they're just too big. I originally tried on the Tecnica in LV and MV but the LV was crushing my instep. How much room do I have to expand instep height? Can that part of the shell even be worked with heat or punches?

Side note, if anyone wants to trade shells I'd like to give a 26.5 Mach 1 LV a shot - my MVs are pretty minty.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Pinned

I am wondering if anyone has advice about stretching/punchig the instep on a Tecnica Mach 1?

I have a pair of Mach 1 120 MVs (newest version with the T-Drive plate) and it's become apparent that they're just too big. I originally tried on the Tecnica in LV and MV but the LV was crushing my instep. How much room do I have to expand instep height? Can that part of the shell even be worked with heat or punches?

Side note, if anyone wants to trade shells I'd like to give a 26.5 Mach 1 LV a shot - my MVs are pretty minty.

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1) sounds like the LV is better, and make more instep room?

2) if you are stiicking with the MV (too wide) or getting the LV, you need to.
a) thinner sock
b) leave the toe buckles off (not just loose)
c) thinner footbed
d) heat up the tongue of the liner, over the pressure point, and flatten it with pressure/weight.
e) make sure the tongue is pulled all the way up once the boot is on

If the mv crush your instep, don’t get the lv.

Grind your boot board, stretch the instep by hating the shell and jamming a softball sized object in there to push up, change your liners (tecnica tongues are very thick), or remove material from the tongue.

If your foot is crushed, odds are it won’t work out.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mntlion

1) sounds like the LV is better, and make more instep room?

2) if you are stiicking with the MV (too wide) or getting the LV, you need to.
a) thinner sock
b) leave the toe buckles off (not just loose)
c) thinner footbed
d) heat up the tongue of the liner, over the pressure point, and flatten it with pressure/weight.
e) make sure the tongue is pulled all the way up once the boot is on

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Thanks for the advice and suggestions. I guess there is probably more room to modify the liner than I considered before needing to mess with the shell at all.

I'll have to see if I can find a way to swap the shells out or trade them with someone. For now I've got some Rossignol Experience SI 130s which are much lower volume (but also pretty old and won't last forever) and seem to ski a lot better.