Electric car thread

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Originally Posted by dan_pdx

I've been reading that the car makers all decided to target the high end with luxury EVs with long ranges and have found out that market isn't as big as they hoped. Now they're all hosed because there's much more demand for Chevy Bolts / Bolt equivalents and no one's making them...Chevy was even going to kill the Bolt until one of their bean counters got them to reconsider.

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Interesting. That sure explains a lot! Was really frustrating to watch GM scrap the actually excellent Volt then ALMOST the Bolt in favor of a bunch of high end EVs I couldn't come close to affording. Seems the market was more in line with people like me than the rich demo the industry was chasing after!

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Originally Posted by durangobrad

I think the low resale can be attributed to concerns about battery longevity and all of the computers and electronics. It's a little bit like buying a used laptop or cell phone.

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I bet you're right. And the perception is probably effecting it more than anything.

Just learned something interesting, though. Apparently the MB EQS comes with one of the best battery warranties in the business at 10-years/155,000 miles! That could actually persuade me to go that route. Although the Hyundai's isn't too bad either at 10-year/100K miles. The MB EQB is 8-year/100K miles. Either way, I'd be good for a minute. Once that warranty's gone, I'm sure the value in any of these vehicles will be completely shot, but if I'm saving close to 80% off MSRP, saving over $70,000, then who freaking cares? It can literally go to $0 and I'd still feel pretty good about it. Haha.

ICE Luxury cars have always had atrocious resale value and BEV ones aren't any different.

With a few notable brand exceptions (eg; Toyota/Subaru in the PNW) you could generally expect 20-30% value loss for driving a new vehicle off the lot. Every used car retaining its value was a weird little pandemic blip that's dying out.

Most reasonably priced BEVs either had $7500 taken off their MSRP or are now competing against other used BEVs that did. Once a used BEV gets close to $25,000 asking there's additional intense downward pricing pressure since that's the threshold to unlock another $4,000 in federal credits.

And finally, yes, BEV drivers are still statistical early adopters and the market is small.

The sticker depreciation makes some sense looking at the above.

I was in the Missoula VW dealership service center and heard the advisor in the phone with a customer. Short story is that the dealer can't service the electric cars because they aren't authorized and trained. The customer was going to have to go elsewhere for service (maybe Spokane?).

Maybe I misunderstood the problem or conversation, but it brought to light a potential problem of buying in semi-remote areas. I already have that problem with our gas Audi. I want an electric for town driving, just need to make sure someone can actually service it.

I’ve heard that too, but it’s not really an EV issue per se. The tight labor market lead to dealerships struggling to retain (to use a local example) more than one trained Ford transmission specialist, so the repair backlog was 3 months if you didn’t want to get it done at a city 3 hours away.

Things are returning to normalish on staffing though so eventually they’ll have ‘em. Addl revenue stream.

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Originally Posted by Ørion

ICE Luxury cars have always had atrocious resale value and BEV ones aren't any different.

With a few notable brand exceptions (eg; Toyota/Subaru in the PNW) you could generally expect 20-30% value loss for driving a new vehicle off the lot. Every used car retaining its value was a weird little pandemic blip that's dying out.

Most reasonably priced BEVs either had $7500 taken off their MSRP or are now competing against other used BEVs that did. Once a used BEV gets close to $25,000 asking there's additional intense downward pricing pressure since that's the threshold to unlock another $4,000 in federal credits.

And finally, yes, BEV drivers are still statistical early adopters and the market is small.

The sticker depreciation makes some sense looking at the above.

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You can get a tax credit on a used BEV? Didn't know that. Interesting.

The logical progression of self-driving EVs.
https://www.instagram.com/p/DA6k6idIj2t/

Or does this go in the Elmo thread?

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Originally Posted by Iowagriz

I was in the Missoula VW dealership service center and heard the advisor in the phone with a customer. Short story is that the dealer can't service the electric cars because they aren't authorized and trained. The customer was going to have to go elsewhere for service (maybe Spokane?).

Maybe I misunderstood the problem or conversation, but it brought to light a potential problem of buying in semi-remote areas. I already have that problem with our gas Audi. I want an electric for town driving, just need to make sure someone can actually service it.

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You're absolutely correct that it would be a potential issue for more remote areas. It's actually one of the reasons I came to appreciate GM back when I had my Cadillacs. I could be in the middle of NOWHERE and if there was any podunk town with any kind of GM dealer, they could service them if need be. Have a buddy who's a Chevy master tech and he had to get certified to work on Cadillacs and more specifically the CTS-V when it came out. They sent him off for a week of training somewhere. Told me that (at least at the time) every GM dealer basically has to have at least SOMEBODY on site who can service anything across the lineup. Could make a great case for something like a Bolt if you're somewhere like Montana.

As for me, now that I have 3 MB dealers in my area, I'm not as worried about it, but there remains a LOT of the vast American landscape where you could end up pretty screwed. Haha.

I brought this up upthread 100 pages ago, just look at the map for the nearest Rivian dealer to your own house for example.

The prices on those Mercedes are interesting. They aren't nearly that low in my area. 22s are closer to 50k depending on mileage.

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Originally Posted by MarcusBrody

The prices on those Mercedes are interesting. They aren't nearly that low in my area. 22s are closer to 50k depending on mileage.

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There may certainly be more to the story on that particular EQS, but I saw TONS of EQBs for crazy cheap. Just do a nationwide search on Autotrader for MB EVs and you'll see what I'm saying. Plenty were CPOs from MB dealers too. As for the EQS, yeah if you bump up the price limit to 50K, loads more pop up so that one for 35 is definitely a bit of an outlier. Still got my attention, though!

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Originally Posted by plugboots

I brought this up upthread 100 pages ago, just look at the map for the nearest Rivian dealer to your own house for example.

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Closest dealer is about 70 miles away, however they're opening up a pretty big, slick looking new service center a few miles away from me. Supposed to open any week now.

I wanna like them, but too new for me. Plus I like cars not truckish things. Plus bleeding 1.5 billion a quarter is problematic.

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Originally Posted by plugboots

I wanna like them, but too new for me. Plus I like cars not truckish things. Plus bleeding 1.5 billion a quarter is problematic.

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Doesn't sound like they'll be around in the long term, unless they get purchased or taken over.

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Originally Posted by plugboots

I brought this up upthread 100 pages ago, just look at the map for the nearest Rivian dealer to your own house for example.

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Might be wrong here, but I thought the VW dealership post was making the point that even if you go with a super mainstream brand like Ford etc with stealerships everywhere, that doesn’t mean the EV issue that crops up during a trip can be handled at the nearest dealership.

I hear this complaint from people that bought a Sprinter rather than a Transit. If they’re lucky enough to find a nearby dealership in Idaho or whatever to get it towed to, the dealership can say Hey we don’t have anyone trained on commercial mercs.

To me this is very different than a conversation about taking a chance on a brand new brand like Rivian.

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Originally Posted by Toadman

You can get a tax credit on a used BEV? Didn't know that. Interesting.

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It can be quite a chunk of change too, if you meet the right income limits and live in the right state.

Besides the $4,000 Federal which has a relatively generous AGI cap, CA residents can get $1-4k through PG&E, WA and OR offer $5k off, and CO residents can get $3k through their energy companies.

Between the web of income eligibility requirements, vehicle eligibility requirements, and state programs using up their annual funding, it can get quite complicated, but there's some pretty crazy deals to be had if you check the right boxes.

A bit of reality check on EV's going on here in FL and the SE probably. I can tell you with certainty that after this flood mess here, there will be a ton less EV's on the road in my area. We heard of multiple house fires caused by EV's in the garage. The brackish water reacts poorly with LIon batteries.
My neighbor lost a Tesla Plaid and a Rivian R1T. Both were in the garage. They got no water in the house, but they were terrified the cars would light the house on fire.
When they came to tow the Plaid, the tow guy had to throw down heavy plastic tarps and cover them with dawn soap to reduce resistance. The regenerative brakes lock when the car bricks. If you tow it, it throws juice on the battery and the car catches on fire because of the salt. Tow guy got it on the truck no problem. 2-3 miles away, it lit up and almost burned his truck in the process. Why they don't carry tire jack type rollers, I don't know. Maybe that will become protocol? The bigger question is, why isn't there a way to disengage the regen brakes? A simple torx or hex key release on the brake itself would solve this problem. Just make it hard to get to, and not easily tampered with, somehow.

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Originally Posted by warthog

A bit of reality check on EV's going on here in FL and the SE probably. I can tell you with certainty that after this flood mess here, there will be a ton less EV's on the road in my area. We heard of multiple house fires caused by EV's in the garage. The brackish water reacts poorly with LIon batteries.
My neighbor lost a Tesla Plaid and a Rivian R1T. Both were in the garage. They got no water in the house, but they were terrified the cars would light the house on fire.
When they came to tow the Plaid, the tow guy had to throw down heavy plastic tarps and cover them with dawn soap to reduce resistance. The regenerative brakes lock when the car bricks. If you tow it, it throws juice on the battery and the car catches on fire because of the salt. Tow guy got it on the truck no problem. 2-3 miles away, it lit up and almost burned his truck in the process. Why they don't carry tire jack type rollers, I don't know. Maybe that will become protocol? The bigger question is, why isn't there a way to disengage the regen brakes? A simple torx or hex key release on the brake itself would solve this problem. Just make it hard to get to, and not easily tampered with, somehow.

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That sounds like a great idea. However it then interferes with the ability of Musk to remotely brick your car. Or the feds if that's your tinfoil hat flavor preference.

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Originally Posted by plugboots

I brought this up upthread 100 pages ago, just look at the map for the nearest Rivian dealer to your own house for example.

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Something tells me most people don’t have 4 within 30 miles like I do. That said, the vast amount of space without them is pretty insane given it’s an adventurous type of vehicle.

I’ve taken the opposite route, driving a 20 year old Suburban for camping/road trip adventures. Pretty likely to break down, pretty likely to be fixable anywhere, pretty cheap, except when you fill it up…

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Originally Posted by warthog

A bit of reality check on EV's going on here in FL and the SE probably. I can tell you with certainty that after this flood mess here, there will be a ton less EV's on the road in my area. We heard of multiple house fires caused by EV's in the garage. The brackish water reacts poorly with LIon batteries.
My neighbor lost a Tesla Plaid and a Rivian R1T. Both were in the garage. They got no water in the house, but they were terrified the cars would light the house on fire.
When they came to tow the Plaid, the tow guy had to throw down heavy plastic tarps and cover them with dawn soap to reduce resistance. The regenerative brakes lock when the car bricks. If you tow it, it throws juice on the battery and the car catches on fire because of the salt. Tow guy got it on the truck no problem. 2-3 miles away, it lit up and almost burned his truck in the process. Why they don't carry tire jack type rollers, I don't know. Maybe that will become protocol? The bigger question is, why isn't there a way to disengage the regen brakes? A simple torx or hex key release on the brake itself would solve this problem. Just make it hard to get to, and not easily tampered with, somehow.

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I had not heard of that. It seems like this could be a design flaw where the batteries are supposed to resist water, but sometimes do not. Hopefully manufacturers can improve this in the future and make it much less likely to happen.

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/10/09/c...urricanes.html

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Originally Posted by Dromond

I had not heard of that. It seems like this could be a design flaw where the batteries are supposed to resist water, but sometimes do not. Hopefully manufacturers can improve this in the future and make it much less likely to happen.

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/10/09/c...urricanes.html

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yeah i hate that his is a new kind of FUD for all ev's when in reality it's a fauly design on a few.


The usual trope of 'where are you going to charge in a disaster' should have been thoroughly debunked for Milton:

- Gas stations were running out of gas as people evacuated. All ev's had no problems charging at home

- Many people running their houses on V2L (V2H) while all neighbors had no power post storm. Could run for days on end.

- You aren't getting gas at gas stations when there is no power.

I've been eyeing this used Genesis G80 Electrified at the local Cadillac dealer for $42k. I want an electric car as a commuter/city runabout and this is larger than I need in some ways and smaller in others, but I do have a soft spot for old school large luxury sedans and I think the new Genesis cars are some of the best looking. Also, the color is gorgeous. I suspect if it were white, I'd be less interested though I still like the styling.

I agree the Genesis line has some head turners in it! that green reminds me of an Alfa Stelvio I saw the other day. very sharp.

My NACS adapter, the official one, finally arrived a few weeks ago.


I used it yesterday for the first time.

I just did it to test it out, I'm not on a road trip so no need for supercharging.

I went to a Tesla station pretty near my house. I was able to get plugged in, but after attempting to start I got a message that it couldn't charge, and that I needed to update my payment.

This was not accurate, the payment on my Rivian account was fine, so I opened my Tesla app. The Tesla app stated that the charger I was attempting to use was down. It would have been nice to know that, but I guess the Rivian software can only detect when a charger isn't working, not the actual reason behind it.

I moved to a different charger, one that was working according to the Tesla app, and plugged in and initiated with the app.

I can't remember whether I plugged in first, as you would with EA or EVgo, or whether I selected the charger in the app and then plugged in! I meant to note that, but forgot.

It ended up being seamless. I was getting about 205 kw. I charged for about 8 minutes, according to the app, and added 25.16 KWh in that time. The cost was $14.84, at 59 cents a KWh. I haven't done the math on that:)

Since it was working just fine with the app, I decided to unplug, and just try plugging in directly. This time it worked. As I didn't really need to charge, this was strictly a testing mission, I let it charge for 3 more minutes. Once again, it was charging fine, I think around 205 kwh, so I decided to consider it a success and left.

A couple of things to note:

1) I don't know if it was a one-off, but just plugging in directly doesn't seem to accurately gauge the reason why a charger might not be working. I'm not sure how it concluded that my payment method needed to be updated, as that was obviously not the case. The only reason I figured out that the charger was not working was because I opened the Tesla app, otherwise I might have continued to think my payment method was the problem.

2) Make sure you have the Tesla app! It is definitely good to have it ready to go, just in case.

3) I haven't charged a Tesla in a year and a half, so I had forgotten how short those cables are. It is very different than EA or EVgo, which have long cables, and the issue of taking up two spots is definitely a potential problem.

4) It was not all that easy to plug into my car. While it did work, you had to be gentle, but also a bit forceful. Hopefully this will improve as I get used to it.

I should add that the charging was done near John Wayne, in Newport Beach.

I'm definitely glad to have this option for road trips.

I have not used the Lectron adapter, or the A2Z, so I can't compare.

I am definitely stoked to have this for Mammoth trips. It will be nice to be able to get a bit of a charge in Mammoth Lakes if I feel like it. That will allow arriving in Mammoth with a 20% charge, and going up to maybe 60% while I get some groceries. This means less of a charge in Bishop and being able to easily make Olancha on the way home. It will be a good option to have.

While I probably won't use this much, it is nice to have access to the Tesla network.

I wanna buy an EV and all, but yesterday I almost got from Ontario, OR to Winthrop, WA, (450 miles), on a tank of gas, in my 340 X-drive MT. For one 50 mile desolate stretch I averaged about 85 MPH. I came up just a tad short cuz we took an extra detour to check out some of the Oregon trail.
Yes, I know there’ll be no snow left due to my burning all the dinosaurs, etc.

Long duc - where you on a v3 or v4 charger? 200 kw is impressive. Idk what the limitation is but on the ioniq we'd get a max of 90kw on a v3 super charger. v4 can do 1000v which is helpful for the 800v archtecture. I'm thinking something on ioniq side is amp limited.

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Originally Posted by plugboots

I wanna buy an EV and all, but yesterday I almost got from Ontario, OR to Winthrop, WA, (450 miles), on a tank of gas, in my 340 X-drive MT. For one 50 mile desolate stretch I averaged about 85 MPH. I came up just a tad short cuz we took an extra detour to check out some of the Oregon trail.
Yes, I know there’ll be no snow left due to my burning all the dinosaurs, etc.

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that'd be a 2 stop charge @ 10-15 mins each, plus leave with a full battery trip for me and i'd only go 70 mph. It certainly changes how you drive.