Ikon Pass

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03-13-2019, 08:42 AM
MontuckyFried

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duffman

I am kind of suspicious that all of the letters coming from ski area management sound eerily similar. Looks like Ikon PR department gave them talking points to use.

That's kind of what I was suggesting in the SW MT thread about this one:
https://unofficialnetworks.com/2019/...-we-need-them/
http://www.explorebigsky.com/guest-e...-holders/28802
Seemed weird that they'd care so much about some random person getting all butt hurt over some funny local stickers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Not bunion

^^^ all very relevant points.

Yo, Not bunion. You should ask Taylor what the truth behind the scenes is. Wonder if he'd give you a straight answer. Likely not. Haha. I have some working theories/known 'secrets' about the involvement of the Big Sky overlords and some of these developments (it's all connected), but I'll save that for another thread or when enough time has passed that I won't have lawyers unleashed on me. ;)
03-13-2019, 08:44 AM
Name Redacted

Quote:

Originally Posted by TahoeJ

The resorts are assets that would be sold off during the process. The mountains would be fine.

But who would buy the assets and run them? Obviously, a lot of them are currently unable to be viable on their own, as stated by JH in the article above, and others. It can also be assumed that this kind of event might take place during a recession which could also decrease the list of buyers. Maybe it would happen for a season or two, but that could also have a ripple effect on the local communities who also support the resort.

Either way, I gotta run, dumping here.
03-13-2019, 08:49 AM
skaredshtles

Quote:

Originally Posted by LesterSmoove

<snip>
I retort with anecdotes about all the motel 6 staying, van camping, 20% ikon pass discount asking, go pro helmet mount wearing, no ski renting, backseat skiing, ACL popping, no money spending cheapskates who flooded this valley. I guess that's probably a misleading picture too.

But it fits your narrative perfectly. So you should continue... :D
03-13-2019, 09:07 AM
ncskier

Quote:

Originally Posted by jtran10

https://www.alta.com/blog/weighing-i...-pass-products

While skier visits to Alta show a double-digit increase over last season, we are currently only 6% ahead of the 16-17 ski season. Our day and multi-day ticket visits are down significantly this season due to the migration of many of our skiers to the Ikon Pass. Our net increase in skier visits from the Ikon Pass is currently running roughly 3%. Our largest increase in skier visits is coming from local pass holders whose visits are up 13% compared to the prior season.

Sir, this is TGR. Never let facts get in the way of a good argument.
Seriously though, Ikon while a factor is probably running a far second place to the fact that Alta like all the other Wasatch resorts have a big giant fucking city of nearly 1.2 million people 30-40 minutes away and has been growing for decades. The last resort to open was Deer Valley in 1981 when the overall metro population was just at 600k.
Add in cheap flights and suddenly you have crowds.
03-13-2019, 09:08 AM
TahoeJ

Quote:

Originally Posted by shredgnar

Obviously, a lot of them are currently unable to be viable on their own, as stated by JH in the article above, and others.

I don't think it's obvious at all. I think it's marketing spin. Sure, that's the case for some mountains, but not most. The idea that JHMR couldn't survive without Ikon is nonsense.
03-13-2019, 09:10 AM
PNWbrit

Quote:

Originally Posted by TahoeJ

The resorts are assets that would be sold off during the process. The mountains would be fine.

You make the process seem worryingly simple...
03-13-2019, 10:55 AM
AdironRider

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duffman

I am kind of suspicious that all of the letters coming from ski area management sound eerily similar. Looks like Ikon PR department gave them talking points to use.

I would love to see the breakdown on where Ikon skiiers are traveling from to JH, Alta etc. And what kind of year over year increase it is. A fair amount of ECers (including myself) had the mountain collective for years ,but that probably didn't cause the noticable influx that Ikon has. And I suspect like mentioned above, a large percentage of the increase in volume is from CA and CO skiiers who basically bought their local mountains season pass that essentially had 5-7 freebie days thrown in at Alta/bird and Jackson, so.why not use them. And these are not the "destination skiiers" that the business model of a pass like this is targeting , in that they aren't spending buku cash locally on their big winter vacation .

Pure speculation on my part, but would love to see the stats

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

Everyone I know at JHMR is basically saying these talking points are straight up lies, at least middle management and lower. I'm sure the truth is actually in the middle, but I don't think we should be taking these numbers at face value.

Nevermind the balls on these CEO's to basically tell locals it is actually their fault. Just telling 40% of your clientele to shut the fuck up and take the bus because they are the crowd is not a great PR move.
03-13-2019, 10:57 AM
The SnowShow

Booo fucking hooo. Complaining about long lift lines during their second biggest month ever? Too fucking bad. Go ski bc.
03-13-2019, 11:36 AM
wolfelot

It sounds like the locals are ruining it for the tourists! Gah!!
03-13-2019, 11:37 AM
Duffman

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdironRider

Everyone I know at JHMR is basically saying these talking points are straight up lies, at least middle management and lower. I'm sure the truth is actually in the middle, but I don't think we should be taking these numbers at face value.

Nevermind the balls on these CEO's to basically tell locals it is actually their fault. Just telling 40% of your clientele to shut the fuck up and take the bus because they are the crowd is not a great PR move.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdironRider

Nevermind the balls on these CEO's to basically tell locals it is actually their fault. Just telling 40% of your clientele to shut the fuck up and take the bus because they are the crowd is not a great PR move.

Seriously. These synched announcements , all w similar theme and verbiage, came straight from some corporate type hack press release, like BP saying lots of fish really like oil in the gulf. I don't think it was well thought out . Basically says "go fuck yourself, you are using your pass you paid good money for too much"

I was never a big VR or front range skiier other than A Basin, so I'm curious, was the initial reaction from locals to the Epic pass similar to this? Or is this more frustrating because one of the advantages of many of the Ikon mtns was avoiding the now established Epic shitshow.

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03-13-2019, 11:43 AM
skaredshtles

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdironRider

<snip>
Nevermind the balls on these CEO's to basically tell locals it is actually their fault. Just telling 40% of your clientele to shut the fuck up and take the bus because they are the crowd is not a great PR move.

So what might the locals do? Quit skiing JHMR? That'll show 'em!
03-13-2019, 11:52 AM
MarsB

Quote:

Originally Posted by The SnowShow

Booo fucking hooo. Complaining about long lift lines during their second biggest month ever? Too fucking bad. Go ski bc.

And soon more will. And will poach your lines.
03-13-2019, 11:54 AM
AdironRider

Quote:

Originally Posted by skaredshtles

So what might the locals do? Quit skiing JHMR? That'll show 'em!

I'm looking at buying a Grand Targhee pass next winter and dropping the grand pass to JHMR. I know the majority of my social circle (mid thirties professionals that live in Victor) is threatening the same thing if things don't change. I assume that there won't be as many non-buyers over on the Jackson side.

What the end result of that will be I do not know, but a 6% increase in revenue short term to sacrifice your most dedicated customers long term doesn't seem worth it, but I don't own the joint.

It honestly feels like they are hoping everyone is all talk and no walk, I am not sure that is true when I need to buy my early season rate pass next month with all this fresh in my mind.
03-13-2019, 11:58 AM
skaredshtles

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdironRider

I'm looking at buying a Grand Targhee pass next winter and dropping the grand pass to JHMR. I know the majority of my social circle (mid thirties professionals that live in Victor) is threatening the same thing if things don't change. I'm sure that opinion is held by fewer that actually live in Jackson, but I guarantee you it makes up more than 6% of their revenue.

Sounds good. Should make for smaller lines next year when we come out to JH. :D
03-13-2019, 12:02 PM
MarsB

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdironRider

I'm looking at buying a Grand Targhee pass next winter and dropping the grand pass to JHMR. I know the majority of my social circle (mid thirties professionals that live in Victor) is threatening the same thing if things don't change. I'm sure that opinion is held by fewer that actually live in Jackson, but I guarantee you it makes up more than 6% of their revenue.

Huh. I always figured all nonJHMR-employed Drictorites did that long ago.
03-13-2019, 12:06 PM
AdironRider

Quote:

Originally Posted by skaredshtles

Sounds good. Should make for smaller lines next year when we come out to JH. :D

Hah, touche. Enjoy it.
03-13-2019, 12:27 PM
Skidog

Im sure if the lines are as long as I been hearing at Alta that locals are pissed. They pay a damn bit more than an Ikon pass to ski Alta on a season pass. As mentioned its easy for the crews from WY, ID, CO to shoot on over for their free Ikon days in Utah. Ikon didnt offer unlimited Alta, so those that wish to get more than 5 days at Alta have to buy a full Alta season pass. to have the resort that you paid $1k for a season pass to be overrun but Ikon/Epic is sad....hopefully the money is worth it for the resorts.
03-13-2019, 01:06 PM
xtine

It's kind of fucked that one can buy a $2000+ grand pass at JHMR and not get ANY of the Ikon benefits while getting all the downsides of increased crowding. Can't even throw them a bone with 5-days when locals leave town. What's an unrestricted Ikon pass worth, $900? So it's rather insulting for those that fork over one of the highest season pass prices for a diminishing experience. Locals sustain resorts through bad snow years. You can point and laugh at all the local complaints over extra crowding, but it's a damn shame when a high caliber ski resort known for high quality skiing becomes an overrun gaper central.
03-13-2019, 01:20 PM
TahoeJ

Quote:

Originally Posted by xtine

It's kind of fucked that one can buy a $2000+ grand pass at JHMR and not get ANY of the Ikon benefits while getting all the downsides of increased crowding.

Agree with this 100% ... why not give all resorts on the pass Ikon access even if their local unlimited version costs more? Seems crazy.
03-13-2019, 01:23 PM
mcski

I just assumed that's how it was gonna be set up before I knew the details. Actually I thought all the passes would be the same price. 2k w none of the ikon benefits at jh is Mgmt fucking their passholders without lube
03-13-2019, 01:29 PM
Skidog

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcski

I just assumed that's how it was gonna be set up before I knew the details. Actually I thought all the passes would be the same price. 2k w none of the ikon benefits at jh is Mgmt fucking their passholders without lube

Alta isnt a 2K pass, but $1K and you get none of the benefits of Ikon.
03-13-2019, 01:57 PM
singlecross

So if JHMR and Big Sky (understandably, the two most anti-Ikon local voices here) were to go full Ikon next season (unlimited days for $949) would that make the situation better or worse? Happier locals saving $1000 on their season pass with the same crowding? -OR- Even more crowding with out of town Ikoners staying longer/ skiing more days and still angry locals even with $1000 extra in their pockets? Would you buy an Ikon if it offered unlimited days at your hill?
03-13-2019, 02:05 PM
Name Redacted

Just like traffic, if you are in a long lift line, you are part of the problem.
03-13-2019, 02:08 PM
Whiteroom_Guardian

I for one really really hope they don't go unlimited Ikon at Big Sky.

I think the dynamic here is that lots of bozemanites who only ski like 15-20 days a year only buy a bridger pass because it's cheaper/closer, etc.

Unlimited Ikon at Big Sky opens up the floodgates to way way way more people from Bozeman, Helena, Billings, etc.
03-13-2019, 02:08 PM
Jong Lafitte

Quote:

Originally Posted by singlecross

So if JHMR and Big Sky (understandably, the two most anti-Ikon local voices here) were to go full Ikon next season (unlimited days for $949) would that make the situation better or worse? Happier locals saving $1000 on their season pass with the same crowding? -OR- Even more crowding with out of town Ikoners staying longer/ skiing more days and still angry locals even with $1000 extra in their pockets? Would you buy an Ikon if it offered unlimited days at your hill?

Kind of a side point to that but the earlier link about Telluride, the exec said something about how the thinking was that giving people only two days on the epic would lead to worse crowds on powder weekends vs full unlimited.

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