Ukraine

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Originally Posted by Trackhead

What’s the end game in Ukraine? Restoration of pre-2024, or pre-2022 borders?

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The endgame was forcing the Kremlin to choose between the Russian economy or its war against Ukraine. It was working before Trump threw Putin a lifeline.

Literally days before Trump's wholesale adoption of Putin's agitprop the Moscow stock market was shut down, the ruble was collapsing, and the Bank of Russia key rate was at 21-percent.

The only reason for Russian economic expansion was because they're spending nearly half their economic output on military spending. That's not sustainable. Especially not with Ukraine systematically destroying Russian refineries and oil tanker shadow fleet one-by-one.

That's why Trump had to hastily prioritize Russia's security concerns, right now! Russia's meat grinder assaults were stalled (LMAO @ cono last year saying Ukraine's lines were facing imminent callapse) and its economy running out of rope.

Absolutely zero reason for the U.S. to capitulate faster than France in WWII

I wonder what the reason could be for the country turning its back on the world order it helped create?

Downright suspicious.

Russian counterintelligence just scored a big win against America with Kash Patel confirmed as FBI director, 51-49

Maybe Patel will investigate elons firing of Q in the mass purge.

Lots of talk saying Ukraine can not realistically expect to get the Russian occupied territories back, so I would like to make a modest proposal: Ukraine gives them up only in return for immediate membership in NATO and the EU, no voting necessary (Orban and/or Erdogan would just fuck that up any way). No mineral rights given away, no Trump Nobel Peace Prize, etc.

The whole war's pretty much been fought on that territory, much of it has to be virtually useless at this point.

Yurp and England (France) have proposed boots on the ground. England admits to having a shit military. Germany is spending a paltry 1.5% GDP on defense. All the countries on the other side of the Atlantic want the U.S. to continue to shoulder the economic support.

At some point, stopping the war needs to happen, if for no other reason than the massive loss of life.
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Originally Posted by dan_pdx

Didn't Russia sign a peace treaty with Ukraine to get Ukraine to give up their nukes? Why would they sign another peace treaty that defangs them even more and leaves them dependent on Russia honoring the agreement? That would be as worthless as a trade agreement with the USA.

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Ukraine never had nukes. These were Soviet nukes that happened to be in Ukraine


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European countries have collectively contributed more aid to Ukraine than the United States. At $120 billion Ukrainian taxpayers alone have shouldered more than any other country, including America. Never make the mistake of underestimating Ukraine. A country of heroes. Zelensky is one history's great wartime leaders. When this war does come to an end his name will be in Pantheon discussed in the same breath as leaders like Churchill

Enough talking. Trump should bow out of the conversation if all he has to offer is Russian talking points. No matter how hard he tries, he will never break Ukraine's spirit. Europe should finance aid for Ukraine from the Russian frozen assets so that Ukraine can finish the job Putin—not Ukraine—started. The free world owes Ukraine a very great deal—and we must all stand with them today.

One would expect Ukraine to have "contributed" the most, given they are the country being attacked. If the data I posted above is accurate, the US is by far and away the biggest contributor from a military perspective (gray bar).

I'm disappointed on our current stance, but I see little hope Ukraine pushing Russia back to 2014 borders. Just more people dying.

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Originally Posted by Trackhead

One would expect Ukraine to have "contributed" the most, given they are the country being attacked. If the data I posted above is accurate, the US is by far and away the biggest contributor from a military perspective (gray bar).

I'm disappointed on our current stance, but I see little hope Ukraine pushing Russia back to 2014 borders. Just more people dying.

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You may be right and it would be great to see the Ukrainian people quit dying but not by the US ignoring them in negotiations and sucking Putins dick to do it.


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Originally Posted by rod[emoji[emoji6[emoji640

[emoji638]][emoji640][emoji6[emoji640][emoji637]]][emoji639][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]]][emoji637];[emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji639]][emoji638][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]]][emoji638][emoji638][emoji637][emoji6[emoji640][emoji637]]]Ukraine never had nukes. These were Soviet nukes that happened to be in Ukraine


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Not true. Ukraine gave them up to Russian in NinetyFour. Youre so concerned about Ukranians, I’d think you would know this simple fact. Ukraine was given a security guarantee in exchange by Russian , US, and UK

The first rule of nuke club is NEVER give up your nukes

Ukraine was formerly a republic of the Soviet Union. Ukraine was the third largest nuclear power in the world holding about a third of the former Soviet nuclear weapons & delivery systems because Ukrainians played a significant role in the design and production of those weapons systems. After the dissolution of the Soviet Union the nuclear weapons were controlled by the Commonwealth of Independent States.

Ukraine agreed to give up the strategic nukes in its possession, and hence de facto control, under the Budapest Memorandum in exchange for sovereign security assurances guaranteed by Russia, the United Kingdom, and the United States along with France & China. The Russian Federation, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and the United States of America affirmed their commitment to Ukrainian interests and the rights inherent in its sovereignty including Crimea, which is to thid day internationally recognized as Ukrainian territory

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Originally Posted by Trackhead

One would expect Ukraine to have "contributed" the most, given they are the country being attacked. If the data I posted above is accurate, the US is by far and away the biggest contributor from a military perspective (gray bar).

I'm disappointed on our current stance, but I see little hope Ukraine pushing Russia back to 2014 borders. Just more people dying.

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Fighting for your freedom is worth dying for. That’s their choice and trying to “save them” from dying on anything less than their own terms is a betrayal

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Originally Posted by Trackhead

One would expect Ukraine to have "contributed" the most, given they are the country being attacked. If the data I posted above is accurate, the US is by far and away the biggest contributor from a military perspective (gray bar).

I'm disappointed on our current stance, but I see little hope Ukraine pushing Russia back to 2014 borders. Just more people dying.

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No need for scare quotes. Ukraine has committed the most. Your chart does not include Ukraine itself. The United States is the largest single nation foreign contributor because America has the largest economy. As a percentage of GDP however, at 0.35-percent the United States only ranks 17th as a share of GDP. Europe as a whole has disbursed much more aid to Ukraine than the United States. Nearly twice as much in fact, and nearly four time more in committed future aid

Understand and agree about dying for your country. Nobody would argue that. But it doesn’t change reality.

Yes, agree on Trump actions being short sighted dick sucking.

Feel bad for Ukraine and Russian citizens. None of the normal citizens in either country want this shit. Watched some street video interviews of Russian opinion of Americans. Most are well spoken thoughtful replies and quite truthful.


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A high number of Russians (65-to-75-percent) support Putin’s war against Ukraine. Why? Because they’re bombarded with unmistakably false information by Russian state media. For some reason Trump bought into the false Russian narrative. It was Russia that started the war. A dishonest storyteller of the war cannot be an honest broker of peace. False narrative have consequences. Trump’s narrative rewards aggression by not only setting a dangerous precedent, it erodes trust making cooperation among allies much, much harder

I watched a German analyst and his spin was. if trump wants to achieve peace in a short time, he has to fully align with putin. Because if putin says no he can not change it and the war goes on.


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Yeah, Trump wants a quick deal and sees Ukraine as the lower status more easily coerced party to the conflict. The problem for Trump is Ukraine knows how that story ends. Any deal that doesn't have robust security guarantees is a non-starter for Ukraine.

Trump's pro-Putin stance is also increasingly unpopular with Americans, including Republicans. Senator Thom Tillis (R-NC) says—on the Senate floor—Trump is wrong about Ukraine, wrong about Putin:

https://x.com/hissgoescobra/status/1892834174463262828

"Putin is a cancer and the greatest threat to democracy in my lifetime"

I earnestly want to understand what he thinks he’s going to do when Ukraine tells him to stick his deal up his ass
Might not look so good in front of his buddy Vlad

The answer is (for any similar question) of course: he just doesn’t care

I wonder if he would go so far as to threaten to send aid to Russia?

The main way Trump might aid Russia is by ending the sanctions. That's a real possibility

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Originally Posted by MultiVerse

The main way Trump might aid Russia is by ending the sanctions. That's a real possibility

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Not to mention pulling US troops out of Europe. I wouldn't even put it past him to increase tariffs based solely on this. I assume he asked about sanctions against Europe as well, we just haven't heard it reported yet.

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The war started in 2014, no one has done Jack shit to prepare. Lost the war on that front too. Ill,bet Russia is pumping out munitions at a record level. All bluster.</p>

Hey Cono - remember when you justified Russia invading Ukraine because they needed to go in and get rid of all the Nazis?

Cono is manufacturing consent for Russia to denazify us of Elon, Trump, and Bannon. [emoji640]d, baby. Spaseba ??????!