Crystal Mountain Becomes Alterra

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Originally Posted by altasnob

Bacherlor, Big Sky, and Sun Valley are all legitimate destination resorts. Crystal and Stevens are not, and never will be no matter how hard Alterra and Vail tries (they lack the expansive terrain).

Crystal is 4 high speed quads, a gondola, and is 2,600 skiable acres (half of which you have to hike to get to).

Bachelor has 8 high speed quads and 4,323 acres.

Big Sky is has 8 high speeds, a tram, and 5,850 acres

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And of those high speed quads, one was broken down all of last season and two this year are running at 2/3 speed because the main drive motors died when they fired it up at start of season.

And one of those two chairs was down completely for a week last month after blowing hydraulic fluid all over a bunch of patrons and the surrounding snow. Which chair serves about 1/3 of the total acreage

Legitimate destination resorts don’t have those kind of repeated failures.

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Originally Posted by altasnob

There is not much more room at the base for more parking unless they go with a parking garage. If they wanted to add parking along 410, they would have to purchase the land. There is not any large, undeveloped, swaths of private property available. And the rest is National Forest. And land is not cheap, not just along 410 but even down in Enumclaw.

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Maybe Greenwater can become the next Bend...

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Originally Posted by The AD

Maybe Alterra will still be involved a decade from now, maybe they won't.

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Vail, Inc. has been around and traded publicly since 1997. By comparison, Amazon was founded in 1994. So Vail is just as entrenched as other companies that dominate our lives. I don't see Vail, or Alterra, going away in our lifetime. Alterra is not some insolvent mom and pop. They own 16 ski resorts (Vail owns 41). If anything, I see Vail and Alterra's market share increasing through the years rather than going down. It's like any other industry, which is increasingly dominated by just a few entities.

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Originally Posted by TBS

Legitimate destination resorts don’t have those kind of repeated failures.

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It's because Bachelor is owned by another spoiled rich kid who was handed all his money from daddy.

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Originally Posted by The AD

Maybe Greenwater can become the next Bend...

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I know this is a joke but Greenwater is a massive flood/lahar plain. There is not much more development that you will see there. And we have urban growth boundaries in WA.

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Originally Posted by altasnob

Vail, Inc. has been around and traded publicly since 1997. By comparison, Amazon was founded in 1994. So Vail is just as entrenched as other companies that dominate our lives. I don't see Vail, or Alterra, going away in our lifetime. Alterra is not some insolvent mom and pop. They own 16 ski resorts (Vail owns 41). If anything, I see Vail and Alterra's market share increasing through the years rather than going down. It's like any other industry, which is increasingly dominated by just a few entities.

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I don't think either Vail or Alterra are going away, but that doesn't mean Alterra will continue to own Crystal. But I see no reason to think they won't other than just the constant churn we've seen over the last decade or so. Who knows? Maybe Vail and Alterra will merge (ugh)?

Condolences to his family and fuck cancer.

That said, I will always remember John as a sell out.

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I didn't know JK personally and I'm not an apologist but here are a few facts:

1. Boyne basically rescued crustal from bankruptcy in the 90s.
2. JK stated in an article he thought Vail's purchase of Stevens Pass put crustal at a significant competitive disadvantage.
3. The summer before JK sold, the Norse Peak fire was probably going to do some significant damage, until the wind shifted at the last hour.

I personally disagree with #2 but I can't blame the guy for reassessing his priorities.

RIP John and thank you.

Sounds like people need to boycott Crystal. Who's with me!?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7vtWB4owdE

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Originally Posted by BaseFloopy

The summer before JK sold, the Norse Peak fire was probably going to do some significant damage, until the wind shifted at the last hour.

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Great, now that East Peak has mostly burned, you don't have to worry about the base area burning for a long, long time. The burn zone is one giant natural fire wall. Even more the reason he should have kept it.

I don't have any problem with Kircher selling. I just have a problem with him selling to Alterra. He could have put it out on the market and allowed a conglomerate of locals have the chance at it. There's lots of rich people in the Seattle area. Someone may have been interested.

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Originally Posted by Toadman

Sounds like people need to boycott Crystal. Who's with me!?

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I'll never boycot Crystal, no matter what. I have no choice. It would be like you refusing to ski at Bachelor. Then what's the point of living in Bend.

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Originally Posted by altasnob

Great, now that East Peak has mostly burned, you don't have to worry about the base area burning for a long, long time. The burn zone is one giant natural fire wall. Even more the reason he should have kept it.

I don't have any problem with Kircher selling. I just have a problem with him selling to Alterra. He could have put it out on the market and allowed a conglomerate of locals have the chance at it. There's lots of rich people in the Seattle area. Someone may have been interested.

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It's hard to know where the next fire will start and which way the winds will be blowing...

Look, I dislike Alterra (and Vail) as much as anyone but who knows if group of rich Seattleites would do any better. I'm guessing he thought Alterra would have the best chance of building out the master plan (which is of course debatable).

He was pretty public about his motivation to sell. Might be just a story they're telling but its been a consistent one at least.

John talking about the decision contemporaneously:
https://www.rei.com/blog/snowsports/...ystal-mountain

Stephen talking about it last year:
https://pca.st/episode/cc53d305-8e60...b-2cd05b0d58c9

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Originally Posted by BaseFloopy

I'm guessing he thought Alterra would have the best chance of building out the master plan (which is of course debatable).

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I guess that's my biggest complaint with Kircher. I don't agree with all of the master development plan. Kircher wanted to sell to an owner that would follow his grand plan. A local ownership group probably wouldn't have had such grand plans, or had the capital to follow those plans.

I'm ok with a Kelly's Gap lift and a chairlift from B lot to the base. I don't want a Bullion Basin, or East Peak chair. I am not thrilled with a base to Cambell Basin lift, and the glamping and summer activities in Cambell Basin. I am not crazy about the 100 room hotel but nothing more. I don't like the areiel adventure course and the general carnival atmosphere they want in the summer.

Basically, I want Crystal to stay a PNW resort. Similar to Baker, White Pass, Snoqualmie, and Mission Ridge. And when people say things change. No they don't, at least when it comes to National Forests, National Parks, and ski areas operating on these public lands. The great thing about PNW skiing is that it mostly hasn't changed. We don't have much (or any lodging) at our ski areas. We don't have shopping malls at the base. That's what I like about it here.

I generally agree with all of that ^^ and so do most people I chat with on random chairlift rides etc.
Unfortunately, Alterra knows they've found a diamond in the rough and will do their best to turn it into Wally World, irrespective of what the general population wants.

You probably already know this, but the latest I heard was that the existing gondola will be rerouted to Campbell Basin, and a new, larger gondola (that is better able to handle higher winds) will use the current alignment up to the summit. Timeline is supposedly over the next 5 years or so and I don't remember if this is before/after any Kelly's Gap chair, hotel, etc.

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Originally Posted by TBS

And of those high speed quads, one was broken down all of last season and two this year are running at 2/3 speed because the main drive motors died when they fired it up at start of season.

And one of those two chairs was down completely for a week last month after blowing hydraulic fluid all over a bunch of patrons and the surrounding snow. Which chair serves about 1/3 of the total acreage

Legitimate destination resorts don’t have those kind of repeated failures.

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They have lodging too


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Basically, I want Crystal to stay a PNW resort.

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Boo fucking hoo. The folks in SLC said the same things about LCC & BCC, we said the same thing about Big Sky, no doubt the locals said the same things about Ajax and Aspen Highlands.

Life happens and ain't no way in hell Crystal was ever going to remain a MomNpop ski area.

There's no hope against the corporate overlords.
And obviously so many people get confused between kneeling down and bending over.

They also seem to confuse business with philanthropy.

Crustal is on USFS land. Public land.
But following some thinking here, let the Pebble Mine happen.

It's only business.

I mean it's great sport to carom between ridiculous extremes obscuring the more nuanced constructs, but that's what we do, right?

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Originally Posted by Buster Highmen

I mean it's great sport to carom between ridiculous extremes obscuring the more nuanced constructs, but that's what we do, right?

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Like a murder of Magoos...

No, it is not that at all. This ground has been plowed many times and still nothing productive grows.

So it goes. Oh and sounds like Pebble Mine is dead, at least for now.

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Originally Posted by Bunion 2020

Boo fucking hoo. The folks in SLC said the same things about LCC & BCC, we said the same thing about Big Sky, no doubt the locals said the same things about Ajax and Aspen Highlands.

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The PNW is different. Unlike resorts in the Rockies, our ski areas are surrounded by National Forests with very little private land. Our ski resorts aren't at old mining towns, but are in the middle of the woods at the end of narrow dead end roads. The snow is inconsistent. They are not conducive to big, destination, development.

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Originally Posted by altasnob

The PNW is different. Unlike resorts in the Rockies, our ski areas are surrounded by National Forests with very little private land. Our ski resorts aren't at old mining towns, but are in the middle of the woods at the end of narrow dead end roads. The snow is inconsistent. They are not conducive to big, destination, development.

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Good one dude.

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Originally Posted by altasnob

They are not conducive to big, destination, development.

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Tent cities are more our style.