Running, Anyone...?

Just ran 6 miles in 50 minutes, which is awesome for me considering I rarely ever run, but I am having trouble breathing. I quit smoking cigarettes a year ago, and figured that my breathing would improve, but it hardly has at all.

even while climbing in the BC this year there were times where I would have to stop because my throat would feel like it was closing up and I could hardly get any air, but this doesn't happen when I run quite the same way. I don't get any upper chest tightness, but I still feel like I could run faster if I could just get more air. I can get a decent rhythm of in the nose out the mouth breathing for about a mile, and then have to go off rhythm to start huffing air in through my mouth in order to not have to slow down.


am I doing something wrong? or am I just a pussy?

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Originally Posted by MOHSHSIHd

Just ran 6 miles in 50 minutes, which is awesome for me considering I rarely ever run, but I am having trouble breathing. I quit smoking cigarettes a year ago, and figured that my breathing would improve, but it hardly has at all.

even while climbing in the BC this year there were times where I would have to stop because my throat would feel like it was closing up and I could hardly get any air, but this doesn't happen when I run quite the same way. I don't get any upper chest tightness, but I still feel like I could run faster if I could just get more air. I can get a decent rhythm of in the nose out the mouth breathing for about a mile, and then have to go off rhythm to start huffing air in through my mouth in order to not have to slow down.


am I doing something wrong? or am I just a pussy?

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You may be running too fast. You should be able to hold a conversation while running. The more you run the better your cardio will get and climbing in BC will also get easier. Just don't over do it you could injure yourself and build a solid base.

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Originally Posted by MOHSHSIHd

Just ran 6 miles in 50 minutes, which is awesome for me considering I rarely ever run, but I am having trouble breathing. I quit smoking cigarettes a year ago, and figured that my breathing would improve, but it hardly has at all.

even while climbing in the BC this year there were times where I would have to stop because my throat would feel like it was closing up and I could hardly get any air, but this doesn't happen when I run quite the same way. I don't get any upper chest tightness, but I still feel like I could run faster if I could just get more air. I can get a decent rhythm of in the nose out the mouth breathing for about a mile, and then have to go off rhythm to start huffing air in through my mouth in order to not have to slow down.


am I doing something wrong? or am I just a pussy?

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pussy.

actually, tuckerman is probably right. I get the same thing on super-intense runs.. it feels like I'm suffocating. Can't get enough o2. Get a heart rate monitor if you can afford one, for me, that sensation always occurs aboe 95%.

i get the same thing, but only when it is HOT out

So I haven't really read this thread, but I'd like to contribute my .02. I hate running, but I have to do it for triathlons. So last Wednesday I ran 10.5 miles nonstop (sort of) for the first time in my life. It was actually fun. This was because we paused every single mile for some water and a gel shot. That is what kept me going.

I plan on getting some of those plastic flask bottles to strap around my waist while I'm running and fill them with...uh...I completely forgot what it was...starts with an "I" and is supposed to be a high-calorie drink. Does anyone else run with the plastic flask bottles?

Edit: Is anyone else doing Vineman 70.3?? I just signed up for it, and it's in 3 weeks. I think I'm over my head, but quite honestly, my goal is to cross the finish line before they close the course. :D I'm a swimmin' fool, pretty good on the bike, so the only thing I'm worried about is the 13 mile run. Yikes.

I have never considered myself a runner, though I have done a decent amount of bike racing, road, cx, mtb.

I ran my second(1st being the 2006 Turkey Trot 5 miler in Cleveland) running event and first marathon, Run the Caldera in the Valles Caldera National Preserve near Los Alamos, New Mexico on 6/23/07. The course was described as having 2100' of elevation change. Though multiple Garmin Forerunners showed that there was about 4,300' of climbing and 4,300' of descending between an altitude of 8,500' and 9,600'.

I initially hoped to break 5 hours, but I started getting in decent shape from a combination of running, bc skiing and biking. I then thought I could break 4 hours. I ended up running the marathon in 4:06, I had a meltdown around mile 16, but recovered and was able to finish in 5th place out of about 75 people.

It was a good time and I would like to try a 50 miler before the end of the year.

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Originally Posted by divegirl

So I haven't really read this thread, but I'd like to contribute my .02. I hate running, but I have to do it for triathlons. So last Wednesday I ran 10.5 miles nonstop (sort of) for the first time in my life. It was actually fun. This was because we paused every single mile for some water and a gel shot. That is what kept me going.

I plan on getting some of those plastic flask bottles to strap around my waist while I'm running and fill them with...uh...I completely forgot what it was...starts with an "I" and is supposed to be a high-calorie drink. Does anyone else run with the plastic flask bottles?

Edit: Is anyone else doing Vineman 70.3?? I just signed up for it, and it's in 3 weeks. I think I'm over my head, but quite honestly, my goal is to cross the finish line before they close the course. :D I'm a swimmin' fool, pretty good on the bike, so the only thing I'm worried about is the 13 mile run. Yikes.

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I highly recommend the amphipod fuel belts

http://www.amphipod.com

my first 70.3 will be next may in orlando

:( I will be heading out for my first apres headache run tomorrow which will be low key and mild as far as hills go but I'm scared and I hate that... :(

Psyched for you guys though!

i ran another 5k race today. i was running 8 minute miles for the first 2 miles was on a pace to crush my PR, them my left foot started going numb(shoelaces too tight?), and the course ended on a long uphill. I slogged to the finish line in 29:30 almost 2 minutes slower than my best. Oh well, i need to remind myself to drive the course first.

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Originally Posted by valleygirl

:( I will be heading out for my first apres headache run tomorrow which will be low key and mild as far as hills go but I'm scared and I hate that... :(

Psyched for you guys though!

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take it easy and have fun

Any SLC area mags doing the http://www.wasatchspeedgoat.com/ ?


It looks pretty cool, I am contemplating making a last minute the trip up for that.

I registered for the for the Jay Challenge half marathon. I'm a puss my IT band has been bothersome at around the 20 mile mark and I did not think that I would be able to work it out by the end of the month. Anyway it's still kinda challenging.
"Course description: The Marathon is a 31.5mile, mostly off-road, run. The race starts by climbing 4,000 feet over 9 miles to the summit of Jay Peak. Then racers head downhill for 4 miles, descending 2,000 feet on Ullr’s Dream ski trail, continue on a series of trails through the woods connecting to Wilderness Village back road, and through Jay Village. Then racers will cross fields and rivers, follow a deer trail, and run in a brook. Yes, in the brook, for about 3 miles. A bushwhack and beaver dam leads to a swim across a 50-foot river, (aided by volunteers and a cable), and then racers will reach aid station # 6. It is advisable to re-fuel and rest at aid station #6, because the worst mud hole in the world is yet to come on the last eight miles of the course!"
" The Jay ½ Marathon (really 29km) was introduced last year with great success. The ½ marathon will consist of the first half of the actual marathon. The course will start at the same place at the same time and will have the same finish line as the Full Marathon.

Do not underestimate this 29 Km, 90% of our DNF on the marathon is after coming down Jay Peak. You should be cooked and your legs should feel like jello when you will be done, if not, you will be ready to tackle our full Marathon the following year Most will take at least 3 hours to do this ½ marathon. No this is not a joke. You should be physically and mentally prepared to run a full marathon even if this is only 29Km (18.5mile).

Because of the difficult terrain, the aid stations are spaced every 3 to 4 miles. It is advisable to run with a water bottle. "

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Originally Posted by divegirl

y forgot what it was...starts with an "I" and is supposed to be a high-calorie drink. Does anyone else run with the plastic flask bottles?

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Yes I fill mine with honey, and a little warm water. And I take thermo tabs regularly which helps keep the sodium levels up but, makes me about 8 pounds heavier.

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Originally Posted by Tuckerman

I registered for the for the Jay Challenge half marathon. I'm a puss my IT band has been bothersome at around the 20 mile mark and I did not think that I would be able to work it out by the end of the month. Anyway it's still kinda challenging.
"Course description: The Marathon is a 31.5mile, mostly off-road, run. The race starts by climbing 4,000 feet over 9 miles to the summit of Jay Peak. Then racers head downhill for 4 miles, descending 2,000 feet on Ullr’s Dream ski trail, continue on a series of trails through the woods connecting to Wilderness Village back road, and through Jay Village. Then racers will cross fields and rivers, follow a deer trail, and run in a brook. Yes, in the brook, for about 3 miles. A bushwhack and beaver dam leads to a swim across a 50-foot river, (aided by volunteers and a cable), and then racers will reach aid station # 6. It is advisable to re-fuel and rest at aid station #6, because the worst mud hole in the world is yet to come on the last eight miles of the course!"
" The Jay ½ Marathon (really 29km) was introduced last year with great success. The ½ marathon will consist of the first half of the actual marathon. The course will start at the same place at the same time and will have the same finish line as the Full Marathon.

Do not underestimate this 29 Km, 90% of our DNF on the marathon is after coming down Jay Peak. You should be cooked and your legs should feel like jello when you will be done, if not, you will be ready to tackle our full Marathon the following year Most will take at least 3 hours to do this ½ marathon. No this is not a joke. You should be physically and mentally prepared to run a full marathon even if this is only 29Km (18.5mile).

Because of the difficult terrain, the aid stations are spaced every 3 to 4 miles. It is advisable to run with a water bottle. "

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This is on my to do list for next year

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Originally Posted by mrryde

This is on my to do list for next year

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I'll see you there then.

Tuckerman did you do the Black Fly in your Eye race? How'd you do? Next year that's on MY to do list...

No i didn't run it. I should have the weather is perfect. I don't want to make my IT Band problem worse. I have already payed for the Jay race and have gotten a room so I would not want to be out the cash if I can't race. This stuff is so expensive. I hope to run it next year looks like a fun one.

Tuckerman, watch out for that IT band issue running down Jay. Going downhill is one of the worst things for IT band.

I'm sure others can speak more intelligently about this, but I have some IT band history. Mine started to act up while I was in training for the marathon last year and I didn't know what it was. Following some advice from some others - specifically somebody telling me exactly what it was - I think (hope) I have it under control this year.

Here is an okay website talking about it and how to prevent it.

I've been doing two stretches for it prior to running - 1) while sitting, bend on knee and put the foot flat on the floor outside of the other leg. Pull the leg into your chest and lean back and twist slightly. The leg/knee should twist over your straight leg and your body should twist away from it. You should feel the stretch in your hip. 2) while standing, cross one leg over the other and bend down to touch the ground outside of your back/straight leg (which is actually outside the instep, because your feet are reversed). You should feel the stretch on the outside of your straight/back leg.

I also purchased a hard foam roller and use that a couple of times a week.



Now if anybody can talk to me about plantar fasciaitous (sp??)...

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Originally Posted by road trip

1) while sitting, bend on knee and put the foot flat on the floor outside of the other leg. Pull the leg into your chest and lean back and twist slightly. The leg/knee should twist over your straight leg and your body should twist away from it. You should feel the stretch in your hip.

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This is what I do.

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Originally Posted by road trip

Now if anybody can talk to me about plantar fasciaitous (sp??)...

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Plantar fasciitis (fah-see-i-tis or fah-she-i-tis).

What would you like to discuss, young man?

Entered a 8K on the 4th to use as a tempo run and what do ya know I got 2nd.

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Originally Posted by Tuckerman

Entered a 8K on the 4th to use as a tempo run and what do ya know I got 2nd.

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very nice!!

I am registering for the Walt Disney World Marathon today

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Originally Posted by mrryde

very nice!!

I am registering for the Walt Disney World Marathon today

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prime ski season..

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Originally Posted by mrryde

very nice!!

I am registering for the Walt Disney World Marathon today

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That race would be the only thing that would get me to Fl. it looks like fun good luck.

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Originally Posted by Viva

Plantar fasciitis (fah-see-i-tis or fah-she-i-tis).

What would you like to discuss, young man?

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Hmmm... short of chopping off the foot, how best to combat the beast!

If I'm self-diagnosing properly, I have had flare-ups of the sort in the past and they are beginning to push the sequel. Sort of a pain/uncomfortableness (word?) underside of the arch on the inside of the foot?

I believe I've got some risk factors for it - - (1) my right foot juts out at a 45 degree angle when my knees are straight (read: over pronation?) and (2) my ROM in my right ankle is quite restricted (so when my foot/heel is flat on the ground, I can't push my knee forward very far w/o lifting the heel).

Stretching wise, the best I can think of is the ole stand on the curb and let your heels dip low... anything else that can be done?

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Originally Posted by mrryde

very nice!!

I am registering for the Walt Disney World Marathon today

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yay! :) Mrryde, what training program are you going to use? I've heard great things about this race :)

Roadtrip, how about picking up one of those rolly sticks things for your foot that they sell at marathon expos? I did a quick google search for ya and found this helpful thread on an ultrarunner board:
http://www.ultrunr.com/plantar.html
also here:
http://www.drfoot.co.uk/pages/page155.html

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Originally Posted by BeanDip4All

I did a quick google search for ya and found this helpful thread on an ultrarunner board:
http://www.ultrunr.com/plantar.html
also here:
http://www.drfoot.co.uk/pages/page155.html

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Oooh... very good links. Thanks!!

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Originally Posted by BeanDip4All

http://www.ultrunr.com/plantar.html

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beandip,

thanks for reminding me of this site. i haven't visited it in at least a year, and it was really a lot of fun to go back and re-read some stuff, especially in light of what we discussed yesterday.


it can be as good as TGR! case in point:
*****
For Kevin O'Neall's first 50 miler.

DON'T DO IT!

My mother, rest her soul, gave me advice; "You shouldn't run that far; it's bad for your body." The club members gave me advice; "You're crazy to try to run that far; don't do it." The lunch-table crowd gave me advice; "You won't have any knee joints left if you run that far." Everyone's advice was to forget it, DON'T DO IT, you'll get hurt, you're insane (or stupid or worse), etc.

So I did it anyway. I trained for a marathon, and did it. Two weeks later I did my first 30-mile training run. The next weekend I did a 25-mile weekender. And finally did an 8:33 for my first 50 the next week. My knees hurt, my feet were blistered, my shoestrings were sore. I was crazy; it was the dumbest thing I had done in at least a few months. I could hardly walk for a day or so because of the swollen ankles and knees, and the blisters on both feet. I didn't run for nearly a week or so after that, But ignoring a body that had protested vehemently I went back out to run again. My knees haven't decomposed yet, the black toe nails have fallen off and grown back several times (Well actually two are still yet to grow back from a month ago).

But, I got bragging rights for weeks, months, and I'm working on stretching it into years now. Nobody else it the community does ultras. So I get to brag. They still think I'm stupid, crazy, nuts, and will die one day trying to run with no knees and hip replacements. But I still get to brag.

So Kevin, just go right ahead and do your first ultra. Enjoy the pain you most certainly will find. Then brag. If you're really this stupid to actually do this, then:

1. Have a crew to drive along and help. It's really useful to have someone ahead of you in a car, with the window rolled down 2 inches and the doors locked, yelling to run faster, and that you only have 47 more miles to go.

2. Get someone to jog along with you for the latter parts of the race. This gives them and you practice in conflict resolution as you become surlier, curse more, and literally go to hell.

3. Learn to pee on the run. Why stop? And who really cares about wet shoes after 20 miles?! And if you finish the 50, you will smell so bad that no one will notice the shoes.

4. Eat and drink at every aid station. Remember that you paid good money to abuse your body doing an ultra. The least you can do is get part of that money back in food and drink. Also steal as much food as you can at the finish area before you leave.

5. If you really want to run a fast competitive first 50 miler, then watch your diet, get plenty of rest, do some long training runs of 4-6 hours while practicing eating and walking, do some speed training, pick the right genes from your parents, etc. However, the best idea is to forget all of that foolishness of running a fast first race. Instead go out drinking with the ultra veterans who know how to beer-load, and enjoy yourself. Remember your body is going to let you know for a long time that it went 50 miles. Be nice to it - beer - before the run.

6. The 25:5 method is to WALK 25, then get in a car and drive 5! Get it right; otherwise your body will really be mad at you.

7. If you're really still serious about this non-sense, then consider therapy; you may yet be one of those who can be saved.
****

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Originally Posted by steve

3. Learn to pee on the run. Why stop? And who really cares about wet shoes after 20 miles?! And if you finish the 50, you will smell so bad that no one will notice the shoes.

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This is a skill that I would like to learn, although I bet failing to get it right could become a problem.

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Originally Posted by BeanDip4All

yay! :) Mrryde, what training program are you going to use? I've heard great things about this race :)

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Right now I am doing a 10 week HM training program that is 4 days of running consisting of a Speed day, easy day, tempo day and a long run. Once that is over i'll take a rest week and start the 16 week FIRST Marathon program off of Runners World. Which is 3 days of running and 2 Cross train days.

Both the programs schedule out well and the long runs coincide with some other events I want to do.

marathons as LSDs?

what do you think?
i know many who run 15 mara's per year would think nothing of it.

but for the rest of us (which includes me), here's how i see it:
i *could* run a 21-mile LSD that weekend. It would probably consist of 7 laps around a 3-mile lake that day. it would take hours. i'd be alone. who knows what the weather will be like?

on the other hand, a marathon is 5 miles longer - but support, medical, aid stations, and energy would make it seem like an 18-mile LSD! (:

if i take it super-slow and just enjoy the experience, i'm thinking that i'll be that much more prepared for a real effort in philadelphia.

so.. what say you?

now here's where i go completely nuts - but my crazy marathonmaniacs.com friends have inspired me. normally i would do 21-mile LSDs two weeks apart, but I also know that, while not ideal, being flexible and doing them on back-to-back weekends is not the end of the world, and is, in the big picture, better than missing one, assuming i'm properly tapered for the big day.

but - what if i do marathons on back-to-back weekends? i won't race them, i'll take them super-slow and enjoy the run!

the way i see it, this is a great way to get two of my "super" LSDs in, and have a lot of fun doing it!

besides, if my ultimate goal is to do ultras, why not? might as well get my body used to self-torture while i'm still young..

-steve

I think using races as training runs are fine and a fun way to get it done. If thats what your asking. I just used a local 8K as a tempo run as part of my training for the Jay HM.

Steve, you officially have the ultra bug.

After two and a half weeks of being scared shitless, I did it. And didn't even wuss around as what would that really tell me about what I can & can't do at this point? So I did what I always do, tho' maybe not as fast. The headache stayed at bay. And I had to scrub mud off my calves at the end and it felt so damn good that the smile may never leave my face.

WOOHOO!

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Originally Posted by valleygirl

After two and a half weeks of being scared shitless, I did it. And didn't even wuss around as what would that really tell me about what I can & can't do at this point? So I did what I always do, tho' maybe not as fast. The headache stayed at bay. And I had to scrub mud off my calves at the end and it felt so damn good that the smile may never leave my face.

WOOHOO!

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very nice!

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Originally Posted by steve

prime ski season..

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not for me, prime is March/April for me, i rarely get out in Jan

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Originally Posted by Artie Fufkin

Any SLC area mags doing the http://www.wasatchspeedgoat.com/ ?


It looks pretty cool, I am contemplating making a last minute the trip up for that.

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Yep, I'll be there!!! I figure it will take around 6-8 hours to finish:eek:

Ironmans are where it's at

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Originally Posted by steve

marathons as LSDs?

what do you think?

if i take it super-slow and just enjoy the experience,
so.. what say you?

but - what if i do marathons on back-to-back weekends? i won't race them, i'll take them super-slow and enjoy the run!

the way i see it, this is a great way to get two of my "super" LSDs in, and have a lot of fun doing it!

besides, if my ultimate goal is to do ultras, why not? might as well get my body used to self-torture while i'm still young..

-steve

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First, what is "LSD"?

Second, your current shape is the most important consideration. How do you feel a few days following a long (say 20 mile) training run? If you're still trashed after 5 days, you're probably not ready. But if your running's coming along and you can easily do 10 miles a week after a long training run, then I say go for it.

If you really desire to do ultras, come out to Western States next year. You can work an early aid station that has a glorious view of the Squaw backcountry and then pace someone the final 37 miles in.

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Originally Posted by BeanDip4All

yay! :) I did a quick google search for ya and found this helpful thread on an ultrarunner board:
http://www.ultrunr.com/plantar.html

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Holy shit, I know (knew) about half of those guys. That must be an old thread, circa 1999, 2000...

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Originally Posted by Viva

First, what is "LSD"?

Second, your current shape is the most important consideration. How do you feel a few days following a long (say 20 mile) training run? If you're still trashed after 5 days, you're probably not ready. But if your running's coming along and you can easily do 10 miles a week after a long training run, then I say go for it.

If you really desire to do ultras, come out to Western States next year. You can work an early aid station that has a glorious view of the Squaw backcountry and then pace someone the final 37 miles in.

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Thanks, i value your advice about as much as anybody's.

After last year's LV marathon, i was limping on monday and sore on tuesday, but by thursday i felt completely fine again. I weighed about 40 lbs more than I do now, and I expect to lose at least 30 more before I get to that. my gut tells me that i'll be ok, as long as i take it realllly easy. we won't know, of course, until then.

regarding ultras, i would LOVE to check out western states in 2008, even though it is kind of far.. BUT i am committed to volunteering at the VT 100 in two weekends.

pacing people in 100s is actually something that i'm very excited about doing, maybe even more so than running ultras myself... but i'm not there yet, fitnesswise.