Re: Crozier — https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime...ed/ar-AA1otbho
Arghh.
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Re: Crozier — https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime...ed/ar-AA1otbho
Arghh.
Our local fire (Quarry Fire) was 100% contained as of some time yesterday. Just a bit of good news to share in this thread...
Vibes to the NorCal mags. Arsonists suck.
Question on the Park fire. I read somewhere that most of the fire is on private land. Aerial photos show a lot of clearcut patches. Is this burning on Sierra Pacific plantations?
Closer to home, we are surrounded by wildfire. AQI approximates that of a Chinese tire factory.
Attachment 497779
Crews are so thin here now that everything in that picture west of highway 97 (except Elk Lane) is being managed by one IC.
At least the Ore fire is burning between two recent fire scars so not a lot of room to burn (as long as the wind doesn’t shift 180*
Yeah a lot of the land the Park fire is burning is SPI.
Regarding why they didn't burn off the dozer lines, here's the reasons I see and saw:
The Park fire is being managed by 2 CalFire Incident Management Teams.
CalFire is much more hesitant to conduct large scale burnouts than feds are. They are much more willing to let a fire bump (or slam) a line and then pick up the pieces. They'll blow a massive dozer line out, put tons of resources on it, dice up the ground behind it with dozers, then if and when it spots over, flood it with resources. That's one reason you see people hunkering in vehicles as crown fire hits a line, the plan is for them to stay in there and catch it, then the fire is more intense than hoped for, that plan clearly isnt going to work, and people have nowhere better to go. A lot of burnouts happened on the park fire, but there's a lot of hoops to jump through, hesitancy, and waiting for multiple high level people to give the ok.
^ That’s a fascinating insight (to me, long-time fed, retired) to the ‘cultural’ differences between fed and CalFire. Years ago (‘87) I got assigned to a CalFire IMT to run air ops (AOBD) on a Nat’l Forest fire in CA. The differences in the way I (and the NF) looked at things vs. the CalFire team made it really interesting, and a bit challenging sometimes.
I’ve become kind of addicted to watching the air shows on Watch Duty. I’d say the Crozier fire near Pollock Pines CA is the big priority. There have been as many as six (!) air tankers, 9 helicopters, a lead plane, and air attack plane working on it today. That’s one intense air show.
On the Park Fire (CA) the air show hasn’t been focused on the head of that blowout at all - helicopters have been working the NW flank pretty intensely. That tells me that the towns of Mill Creek and Mineral might be fairly secure right now.
Interesting. Thanks for the info.Quote:
Originally Posted by claymond
I read somewhere that Calfire IMTs are generally accustomed to working in lighter fuel types that the heavy timber of the Park Fire. In manzanita a thick dozer line will generally hold as the head comes up against the line. In heavy timber, not so much.
@MeadowSkipper - Do you need a premium subscription to see “air show” video?
I see webcams on the map, but no setting to see video. What am I missing?
You are missing The premium subscription.
Yeah, I think I put down $25, and that probably gave me the aviation access.
Oregon has set a record for most acres burned this season with 1.5 million acres toasted.
In fairness about 1/3 of that acreage is grassland and scrubland rather than in timber.
https://www.statesmanjournal.com/sto...e/74763479007/
Fires on west slope of Cascades have been relatively mellow, mostly because growth was constrained by recent fire scars.
Attachment 498488
Anybody in OR share analysis about what burned areas were likely ecologically beneficial?
This will get you started
https://extension.oregonstate.edu/ca...verity%20fires.
https://www.klcc.org/environment/202...e-lookout-fire
More ecological impacts for wildlife and hunting season.
OR Dept of Fish and Wildlife advisory came across my email this AM.
Ungulate archery season starts in a week.
Quote:
Like many hunters, ODFW is very concerned about this year’s record fire season and its impacts to wildlife, habitat and fall hunting opportunities.
ODFW understands hunters may have saved their points for years to draw a tag. We want them to have a quality hunt this year or the chance to delay hunting till a future year if fire has significantly impacted their hunt.
ODFW's commitment to hunters is that we will make decisions about offering reinstatement of points/refunding tags as soon as we have sufficient information to do so. This is a balancing act. A decision too far in advance of a hunt can be premature when closures are in flux. In some cases, primarily with larger “mega” fires, we can evaluate and make a decision within about two weeks of opening day based on the extent of the fire across a particular hunt unit, the duration of a hunt period, and decisions by public land managers. For other hunts, we may not know until after the hunting season ends.
Currently, the units most impacted by wildfire are Silvies, Ochoco and Heppner. ODFW has reached out to archery deer and elk hunters with tags in these units to offer point reinstatement/tag refunds, as we did for pronghorn hunts.
Thanks for the articles. I meant was whether there have been any initial evaluations of longer term ecological effects of the 1.5M acres burned this season in OR. In CA, Zeke Lunder vlogs frequently about it using both remote data and on the ground evaluations in the many ecosystems that he knows well. He’s not just pointing out the “good fire” spots. This week, I saw a forester post on Twitter about how the “coffee pot fire” (?) was burning through some sequoia groves as a backing fire with expectations that it’ll have very positive results - results similar to 3-4 seasons worth of rx fire in those groves.
There haven’t been any evaluations for 2024:fires that I know of. Most of the fires in the Cascades are still burning and probably will until the snow comes. Then come the landslides from scarified ground. So the effects take a while to ascertain.
Will check out Zeke Lunder’s videos
HJ Andrews Experimental Forest will be doing a lot of research on fire ecology, now that they lost 16000 acres of old growth and 60 years of research on mature/ancient forest ecology to the Lookout fire last year. That’s why I sent the link to their site.
I don’t know the topography of the Coffee Pot Fire in Sequoia NP. It appears to growing slowly and has a shitload of people (like 800) deployed for like 2200 acres. So yeah, it may well act like a semi-controlled burn thru a mature stand.
That forester is calling it “managed fire.” The state of CA and USFS have a goal of 1M ac of annual treatment (plus maintenance treatments) w/ the thought that managed fire and rx fire will be primary tools in a lot of areas.
I usually “watch” lunder’s recordings when doing dishes at 1.5x. His focus has included the expected sediment/debris flows and flood control problems in the Chico area as a result of the Park Fire and the areas of high fire severity in the upstream watershed.
I guess you could saying any intervention constitutes a “managed burn”.
They are using a full suppression strategy, not a prescribed fire strategy.
https://inciweb.wildfire.gov/inciden...offee-pot-fire
Around here prescribed fire is done on 100-200 acre plots.
‘Modified response’ might be the phrase here with respect to wildfire mgmt where human investments are deemed low risk.
Same here with prescribed fire. A couple hundred ha or so max.
Just snapped this tonight in Stanley, ID. Wapiti Fire picked up and has destroyed several structures. Stanley Lake, Elk Mountain are torched. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...a2ece5363d.jpg
Sent from my SM-F956U1 using Tapatalk
^^^Sad scene at my most favorite place on earth.:cussing:
Damn
Sorry to see it. With the straight southerly flow, we've been getting smoke from that fire up here in MT.
New fire in the Bitterroot, west of Stevensville:
Attachment 498523
photo by B. Harriott via kpax
Sorry to see the news about Stanley.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBS
Here’s one of that forester’s posts: https://x.com/emilydolhansky/status/...Mbjk5ElmdWLRnQQuote:
Originally Posted by BCMtnHound
From the state/fed task force: “Fire Managed for Resource Benefit: The strategic choice to manage unplanned ignitions to achieve management objectives, such as ecosystem restoration or hazard reduction. Fire managed for resource benefit is typically deployed in wilderness areas, national parks, and other areas in public ownership under specific conditions or circumstances. It can also be referred to as “managed fire.” https://wildfiretaskforce.org/wp-con...an2021_2-1.pdf
Last year, USFS, in coordination with the local Karuk Tribe, lit a very large (like 10’s of thousands of acres) backing fire in six rivers NF that functioned as a low severity rx burn but lit in the regulatory sphere of fire suppression efforts. Seems like something a little different than rx fire and “managed fire.” Definitely didn’t go through the typical environmental compliance hoops that take years for something a fraction of that size to get approved and implemented. I posted the short docu video from the Karuk somewhere upthread.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Norseman
2 helos, 3 VLATS on this fire today
Attachment 498541
That sucks. A very good friend of mine lives on St. Marys Rd. I don't think they've been evacuated yet but they're on the fringe.Quote:
Originally Posted by Norseman
Busy
Attachment 498547
My first duty station w the USFS in 1978 was Deadwood. Gone in same week as Stanley Lake. Throw in Redfish Lake for the trifecta. It's been a terrible season personally.
Attachment 498553
Wyoming’s turn. Reminding me of the ‘88 Yellowstone bust.
More Than 350,000 Acres Have Burned As Wyoming Fire Blows Up Into Montana
350,000 acres is a lot.
^^^the Crazy Creek, Monkey Creek and Durkee fires in OR have entered the chat
Attachment 498562
The part of N WY on fire now is wide open scrub and grassland, with virtually zero natural firebreaks. Wind blows all the fucking time. Can definitely see how that kind of acreage can burn in a short period.
How’s is going in Montana and Wyoming and Oregon? Learned over the weekend that a friend’s childhood home/farm in BC is gone (along with the rest of the community in their valley).
I thought this camera footage in the ParkFire was pretty informative about the roll of surface and ladder fuels.
https://www.facebook.com/10006882443...ibextid=6yaNxA
https://wyofile.com/wildfires-have-c...thern-montana/
Combined, the four northern Wyoming wildfires have consumed 448,300 acres in northern Wyoming and southern Montana since Wednesday, according to the federal team now overseeing the effort to suppress them. That’s about three times the size of Chicago.
Yeah, that area is wide open grasslands with some interspersed stands of pine. The wind (which never stops there) is gonna spread fire like a mutherfucker. Ranchers must be scrambling to get their herds out of the way.
This is interesting. I can see where there are probably some significant issues with rugged terrain and scaling up to true landscape-sized treatments, but maybe useful on mellower terrain and in the urban interface. But the article mentions huge areas needing treatment without mentioning the potential amount of acreage these things could treat.
Silicon Valley Wants to Fight Fires With Fire
A wildfire in the Tahoe area might take a while to evacuate. Which should surprise no one.
https://www.moonshineink.com/tahoe-n...st-23-29-2024/
BC got wet and cold, no more evacuation alerts, we can even have campfires
Thanks for sharing. I briefly met one of the people shown and mentioned in the article at a local rx burn site prep a few years ago.Quote:
Originally Posted by Meadow Skipper
Improved tech is one small item that needs improvement. More $$$ in actually doing the work and an improved approval pathway at the state and federal levels along with public buy-in are the biggest hurdles. The tech stuff is easier and that’s why it’s getting the attention. Dealing with the biomass is also a huge hurdle (briefly mentioned).
EMBER Act is hopefully getting updated, revised, and put into vote, hopefully in the next year. Hopefully, it throws a lot of money and some extremely helpful legislative environmental regulatory exclusions/exemptions in place.
Hopefully this makes it past the academic argument and turns to policy: https://fireecology.springeropen.com...08-024-00301-y
Pretty astute there, G.Quote:
Originally Posted by bodywhomper
Yep, needed changes.Quote:
Hopefully this makes it past the academic argument and turns to policy: https://fireecology.springeropen.com...08-024-00301-y
Yep. The guy in the article even says he moved to the woods looking for a problem to solve. He chose the easy "problem" with a flashy solution. I have zero interest being anywhere near a automated skidder driven by a tech bro in London.Quote:
Originally Posted by bodywhomper