Also lurking in this great thread. Late start for me this year.
Gonna do combo of John Collison SkierFit program and LBs which has worked well the past couple seasons. Fat biking, trail running, and leg day in the gym once as week as per usual.
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Also lurking in this great thread. Late start for me this year.
Gonna do combo of John Collison SkierFit program and LBs which has worked well the past couple seasons. Fat biking, trail running, and leg day in the gym once as week as per usual.
7 sets full blasters yesterday. Got 2 weeks left before WROD, outside chance of getting to 10 sets.
Jesus, I’m still at 6 minis. And that makes me sore as fuck for days. And it’s not like I’m out of shape I don’t think. How you guys do multiple days of these per week is a head scratcher to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopeless Sinner
Once you're doing 5+ fulls adding weight is probably a better progression than more sets.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopeless Sinner
Probably diminishing returns after 1 day/week if you're able to do a more comprehensive program.Quote:
Originally Posted by zion zig zag
Precisely why I’m doing my workout I posted a page or two back. Fuggin wreak you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dantheman
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Thanks, I'll go back to five and add some weight. LB is 1x week this year, and 2 regular functional strength workouts, along w some Zone 2 and HIIT on the other days. I can only maintain this pace for October and November.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dantheman
Really interesting, okay. The MTI program we're doing has us up to 6 fulls two days a week for this week. I think this is peak leg blasters tho.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dantheman
The one surprise to me about this program is that it doesn't have the same high weight low rep stuff I've seen in uphill athlete. It does do a lot of functional strength and zone 2 cardio stuff (yesterday was 1100 stepups 17" tall with a 25 lb pack) but not a lot of max weight.
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High weight low rep will help you for endurance / uphill only if you’re deficient in this area. Dan John explained it as, it’s a lot easier to do 25% of your max lift 100 times than it is to do 50% of your max lift 100 times. But once you get strong, the added advantage is marginal at best. Doing 25% or 30% of your max lift 100 times is about muscular endurance.
To your last question about sticking with it, strength and conditioning training changes a lot once you are strong and conditioned. The easy gains go away and it gets easy to become frustrated or let your consistency drop. You really need a plan and to focus on progressive overload. Doing a bunch of haphazard workouts that are always changing won’t get you anywhere. Also, the drain on your CNS becomes real when you start lifting heavy.
Intermediate lifters will often be like, oh I need to do 5 different lower body exercises with 5 sets of 10 reps per movement type to get a good workout. But if I go in to a heavy trap bar deadlift day I’ll probably do 4 sets of 8x335, 6x385, 5x405, 4x425 and be crushed. But doing 425 for 4 is way different than someone doing 4x BW.
If you are working out everyday or close to it scale that back. Have at least one rest day per week, probably two or three, and take a week off every 6-8 weeks.
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I would argue that once a recreational athlete is strong and conditioned, there isnt a good reason to try and get stronger and/or more conditioned. The recreational athlete (which we all are) would be better served simply maintaining that high fitness level, and devoting extra time/money/effort towards skill improvement reps (ie, go fucking skiing or mtbing, or something fun). The amount of time, money, effort that goes into trying to achieve the last 10% that a competitive/pro athlete would push for is just not worth the sacrifice IMO... unless you are trying to be a pro athlete, or dont have much else going on in your life.Quote:
Originally Posted by neufox47
I added Romanian split squats to the routine this past weekend. Damn, that killed me. I used to do those all the time. Amazing what adding a new routine to the regiment can do to hit the legs in a new way. I'm still sore this morning. Honestly, it feels like Saturday was my first day working legs for the season and not week 8. Just more motivation to keep working to get that extra 10% in gains so that I'm only 90% behind pro athlete's level of fitness.
It's all about what your goals are, which can shift constantly.
If your goals are to be in the top 10-15% of your age/gender/etc fitness-wise to enable yourself to do recreational things you like doing, then your goals don't really align with a plan that's built to max out your strength gains.
Particularly since you will reach a point where increasing your deadlift/squat/bench numbers starts to impair your recreational performance. If you want to get super fit so that you can climb mountains or whatever, you're only going to impair your performance by carrying an extra 5-10-15 lbs of muscle to the top that are way beyond the strength demands of your activity.
The converse is also true though. There's tradeoffs in all of our training goals -- the biggest being training time, but so what. That you're out there doing something puts you in the top 10-15% of people so do whatever keeps you coming back to the gym and whatever keeps you going outside.
If your goals are to be a professional athlete none of this applies. Building your recreational athlete training around what professionals do isn't a great idea.
Here's this year's version of my mostly backcountry focused pre-season ski plan:
Day 1: Aerobic base, 60+ mins, zone 1-2 (HR 125-145): spin, run, box step ups, whatever
Day 2: Front squat (8 sets of 2 min, 3 reps each, last 5 at working weight, add 5-10 lbs each week to working weight), dead lift (same as front squat), pull up progressions (6 sets of 90 seconds, x reps each, add one rep each week)
Day 3: Aerobic base, 60+ mins, zone 1-2 (HR 125-145): spin, run, box step ups, whatever
Day 4: Ruck walk 4 miles at 45# (goal ~60 mins). Start at 45 lbs, increase weight by 5 lbs/wk until 60. Then increase by 1 mile/week to 8.
Day 5: Aerobic base, 60+ mins, zone 1-2 (HR 125-145): spin, run, box step ups, whatever
Day 6: Leg blasters, push ups (same format as pull up progressions), calf raises, then step ups with 25 lbs for ~45 mins
Day 7: Rest
I think you're 1 eastern bloc country north of where you should be. And agreed, BSSs are my go to leg movement when im not squating. Easy to load heavy and they hit my glutes like nothing else does.Quote:
Originally Posted by Toadman
If you're training for bc skiing, you need z lot more zone 2. 10 hours a week or more.Quote:
Originally Posted by ptavv
Also, zone 2 , weights and endurance, ie hiking with a back pack, should be done consequently, not at the same time.
Endurance work will kill your strength gains and your aerobic capacity.
Which is why you should get stronger than you need, knowing you will lose some during endurance training. Same with aerobic.
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The issue i have is that lifting weights interferes with the fun stuff, mountain biking or skiing in my case.
I take 1 or 2 rest days a week, but otherwise i always feel kind of tired.
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LOL - Bulgaria, Romania, Serbia, it's all good. I'll just call them the Toadman squats from now on!Quote:
Originally Posted by californiagrown
While you're not wrong, most of us don't have 2 hours a day to work out and frankly that much zone 2 is super boring. ptavv's program seems like a good balance to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by rod9301
In training programs for cycling I’ve seen, that extended zone 2 stuff is often the first thing that’s recommended to be dropped if training time is limited. It’s probably critical if you want to be elite, but pretty low value in terms of performance improvements/time commitment.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bronco
as others have already pointed out, it'd be glorious to have 14+ hours/week to dedicate to training, but I don't (not if I want to see my kids and keep my wife at least)Quote:
Originally Posted by rod9301
the aerobic base workouts I wrote out are guidelines, some days I get called in early to work and/or have to stay late and it's 30 mins on the spin bike, some days I have more days off and they're 3+ hour hikes or other activities, it's a framework that I don't go crazy sticking to
I do try hard to stick to the one day/week of lifting and then can use the other (currently leg blaster) day to be whatever (core, upper body during climbing season, etc etc). If I skip deadlifting for a few weeks I end up with a tight low back and generally much less comfortable than without. Trying out the front squats right now to because I've always been proportionally weaker at them than back squats and I think improving them will translate to other places -- I might be wrong, but some weeks of doing it once/week isn't a big price to pay
Endurance work killing strength is only true at the very upper ends of "strength" and is more a function of training time/focus than it is of physiology.
I don't need to be swole and huge and super strong… I do however, both from a "do stuff I want to do" and a "my job says I have to" maintain a some relative strength and sprint capacity and a lot of endurance
your advice basically synthesizes to "get stronger than you need so that when you build an aerobic base you can lose some; then get more endurance than you need so you can build strength" and rather than see-sawing up and down on those two axes I go after a middle ground where I maintain a respectable strength base and keep maintaining/building my aerobic base
I don't agree, most recent research shows that this is more beneficial, including if you want to raise vo2 max.Quote:
Originally Posted by J. Barron DeJong
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You guys could work out 30 hrs/week, I'm still going to be the best skier on the mountain.
:FIREdevil
(But yeah, 10-15hrs/week since May because im stupid like that)
Stupid, but true.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mofro261
I’ve seen that it does raise vo2 max, but that intervals are more effective for time spent. But I’m not a training expert so happy to be corrected if I’m wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by rod9301
I try really hard to avoid regurgitating things that the Uphill Athlete (and/or now Evoke Endurance) guys put out because I think their insight and methods are a) older and simpler than they make them out to be and b) kind of a cult at present because they represent a counter-movement to the CrossFit/HIIT movement of the past 10-15 years of training culture.
That said, this article about VO2 max from them puts it really succinctly and accurately:
"No one races 50 miles or climbs a mountain while operating at their maximum capacity. You can hold that effort for only a few minutes. Besides, there’s so little oxygen at high altitudes that it’s physically impossible to operate anywhere near your top-end intensity. These pursuits demand endurance, which is the ability to sustain a submaximal workload for a long time—over multiple hours or even days. You’re not going to be running 5-minute miles at 8,000 meters."
Sure, if you're a mostly sedentary blob with a VO2 max that's in the 20s/30s, you should definitely improve it. Mainly because it won't take a lot of effort and will pay huge dividends to your overall health in general. If your VO2 max is in the upper 40s or 50s and you're training for activities that take place over hours-to-days, training to improve your VO2 max specifically probably isn't an efficient goal.
Psychological imagery counts, right?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mofro261
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mofro261
Pffttt, I heard you can't even ride it switch to the road.
dont add weight as DTM rx'd, rather start using Pavel's Grease the Groove method. This will help increase yer submaximal workload capacity that ptavv is talking about upthread.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopeless Sinner
Oh for sure, I’d argue even at the pro level that is true for strength. Not sure about conditioning though, I can’t think of many sports where being more functionally conditioned won’t improve your sport performance. That said good athletes are made by practicing their sport. S&C is complimentary.Quote:
Originally Posted by californiagrown
Also, I think athletes in all sports get to a point where they are strong enough. Additional gains give incremental sport gains at best and pose serious risks of injury. JJ Watt blames heavy back squats on ending his career short.
The best athletes in any sport are rarely the strongest athlete in their sport.
Following the plan, now up to 4 fulls. But skiing around here opened early, and I’ve just learned that stacking high G turns on WROD laps with LBs in the same afternoon is not a recipe for success.
Holy crap. That hurt.
For me personally, the calculus has changed dramatically in the past few years as family and career have risen dramatically in importance and time expenditure. What ive come to understand is that hard-ass work with a singular focus is easy...and i wish i would have realized this and taken advantage of it as a younger man. Whats difficult is trying to balance multiple, conflicting priorities that are competing against each other for your time/energy/resources and figuring out what and when to sacrifice and being okay with the consequences. And to bring it full-circle, this is where LBs come in as they are, IMO, the best bang-for-buck leg movements for carryover into mountain sports when time is at a premium.Quote:
Originally Posted by neufox47
I've recently added Bulgarian split squats back into my routine and I have a technique question. Should I cry before, during, or after sets? I've been doing all three just to cover my bases...
Mostly after. Definitely not during. A little beforehand.Quote:
Originally Posted by caderader
Ok legs are feeling pretty good but I most likely have a few more weeks to prep looking at the forecast.
Is it too early to talk in season maintenance? What do you guys do to keep strength up but keep legs fresh enough that a surprise powder day doesn’t leave you with tired legs?
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And when sitting down for a shit the next two daysQuote:
Originally Posted by neufox47
The best ski day of my life occurred the day after a leg day- February weekday in my late 20s with 28" the day before that everyone went to, and then 17" overnight that the resort reported as 4" so i lapped all morning with about 30 cars in the parking lot. Was i sore that morning? Yeah. Did it matter, no, not really. I did splat on one landing, but overall I considered my sore legs a sacrifice to Ullr. Also remember that being sore doesnt necessarily correlate to much if any loss of strength/power/endurance.Quote:
Originally Posted by zion zig zag
Realistically, you should have a good idea about storms and if you plan to ski 24-36 hours out so you can make decisions about training then. Mid season you should be in really good shape though, and so a workout shouldnt crush you for more than 24 hours... the only difference for me is that i wont hit multiple sets of <3rep squat or deadlifts and i REALLY make sure to warmup well. I hit one heavy set to keep my upper end strength and CNS primed, and the rest of my training is higher rep with a focus on form and accessory work dealing with whatever issue is nagging me.
@zzz. Yoga, foam roller, hydration, sleep, healthy diet, party moderation
Total body workout. It's all so lame! But it work. Be healthy so you can recover.
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In ski or mountain bike season, i do just one set of 5 reps with the highest weight i achieved during pre season training.
This is for legs, and i don't get sore at all and i maintain my strength.
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For any of the older folks here that want to get strong, Dan John’s Easy Strength is a great resource. It’s not about conditioning or adding muscle mass, but if you want to get strong and minimize your chance of getting injured in the process it is probably the best resource out there.
https://danjohnuniversity.com/bookstore
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Welp, due to conflicting advice, Thanksgiving travel, and facing the WROD w minimal chances of snow it has left me on empty. Lost all motivation for blasters, but did my usual functional strength training 2x/week, added a HIIT session and a few more Zone 2 sessions. Maxxed out at 7 sets of full blasters this fall........and won't do anymore until next October.
First real day of the season yesterday. 27k vert, lots of high speed crud busting, bumps, and stompage, pretty much full charge right out of the gate.
Yeah that has more or less been my experience. Leg blasters + box steps with a backpack has all of my bases pretty well covered. Feel great skiing this hard this early. Thanks for the encouragement and shared stoke magsQuote:
Originally Posted by Dantheman
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