Praxis Skis Needs Your Support

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kid-kapow

Praxis is awesome. Their current skis are alle looking stellar, yet their pricing policy over the past decade with more or less constant sales does not induce anybody - fanboy or the general public - to buy en masse when the prices revert to something more akin to industry standard (that is actually still fairly low for made in the us skis with wood veneer tops - value for money is still very, very, very good).

---

Not sure what you mean? Keith's preseason sales of semi custom skis seemed excellent. I don't see how pricing was the obstacle on the preseason sales. I was ready to pull the trigger and buy a pair last Spring. But he stopped doing it and I couldn't swing the $1600 price tag. If he could have done the sale but had the semi custom pricing at $800 or so I would have been in.

What would be very cool is if Keith and Marshal over at Heritage Labs could partner up together and share overhead and perhaps some advertising.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by waxoff

I think this hit the head of the nail!

And yo, it wasn't too long ago that the hype for Praxis was quite strong on this forum. Maybe it was partly thanks to the loyalty points system that kept buyers coming back for more, I dunno.

Whatever the reason for change was, the skis are still great.

Hot tip, if you venture off-piste, and you haven't tried them yet, git sum GPO's!

---

I own 3 pair of Praxis skis and bought my one month (at the time) old grandson his first pair for Christmas last year, my veneer GPO has been my DD the last two seasons at AltaBird, a 4 flex 192 Protest was the first ski I bought from Keith and I have had so many great days on them. Last off season I purchased a 188 MVP108 during the custom spring sale, I kept the stock layup and went with a maple veneer and his constellation graphic.
I made my first purchase from Heritage about a month ago and am excited to receive them. I feel like buying from Marshal was very similar in the purchases I’ve made from Keith with them both taking time to talk or exchange multiple emails prior to the purchase.
I am not done buying from Keith and hope he can keep going. My GPO is such a good ski and will replace them before they are dead.


Attachment 502164

If anyone can swing it financially, I urge you to buy another pair of skis from Keith. It sounds like this could definitely be it for him.

Hopefully Keith can keep the lights on with some extra funds for his pocket. Absolutely just love all the protests I’ve been on and own. My favorite ski from him hands down, well the praxis lhasa is pretty sick as well. Not much else intrigues me but I surely hope he keeps it going as others love his various shapes.
Seems his marketing reach is very limited as when I ski my protests, everyone asks questions about the shape but none have ever heard of Praxis.


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kid-kapow

I think the engagement on the forum is down across all brands, not just wrt Praxis. The number of people who post regularly in the various threads is fairly low - perhaps it will increase with the coming of snow / during the season.

HL is the notable exception, yet since their main market arguable is the nichest of niche people on here that is hardly the argument it is made out to be.

Praxis is awesome. Their current skis are alle looking stellar, yet their pricing policy over the past decade with more or less constant sales does not induce anybody - fanboy or the general public - to buy en masse when the prices revert to something more akin to industry standard (that is actually still fairly low for made in the us skis with wood veneer tops - value for money is still very, very, very good). Man - some of their skis just look so freaking good - I would love to try some of them.

---

Naahhhh, that's not what I meant. Of course, ski and ski brand hype is reduced during the non snow months. Hence the energetic lookout for the turn.

No, I mean through the years, each season, for whatever reason, you'll see one or two shining stars on the firmament. Right now it's mainly HL,

The NW bamboo boys, the Mustasche rocker crew, the Frontiers, and who not. From time to time, they all surface like cream from milk. But on this forum, not often in parallel.

Shit, there even was a time when it was believed that the carbony RP112 skis was the end all, do it all, the salvation, finally, the end of all ski evolution... Turns out it wasn't!

And neither will this years hottest ski be!

But all of the above does not really matter. If you currently fancy any of the Praxis skis, stretch your budget, and just buy them!

Would sure suck if Praxis disappeared. I can't afford to buy another pair. Bought the birds of prey frs in spring. I'd put 50, maybe 100, toward a raffle or something.

skis aren't in the cards for me right now but i'm grabbing a hoodie and a couple of shirts. implore others to do the same.

Love to hear the support for Keith. Great idea stealurface. I can't afford a pair of his sticks right now either but I am going to buy a hoodie for support.

Let's go, guys! If you like Praxis and Keith, it's important to show some support in any way you are able to.

I've picked up three pairs of skis from Keith in the past year: GPO, Protest, Powderboards. The last one was driven by a fear that the end may be close upon us.

I'm tapped out, but great idea... I just bought a shirt and some stickers. Hopefully it helps.

good idea, just did the same

Damn, the Protests are looking dead sexy this year. Might be time. I'm already waiting on some HL's and the ski locker is rounding out, but there's always space for just one more.....

FWIW, the website got some housekeeping and graphics are all updated. Looks great. Keep it going, Keith!!

Seconded on the Protests. I'm really liking the move to all veneer. FWIW - picked up some Protests earlier in the year. New rocker profile is perfect mounted on the line.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SnowMachine

Damn, the Protests are looking dead sexy this year. Might be time. I'm already waiting on some HL's and the ski locker is rounding out, but there's always space for just one more.....

---

This is literally my thoughts this morning. Just bought a pair of BCs this year, but I've been lusting after protests for about as long as I can remember. Might have to pull the trigger.

I picked up some 187 protests in 2019 secondhand to take to Japan. I might just have to buy another pair as a thank you for making such a badass ski.


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by googledidoo

What would be very cool is if Keith and Marshal over at Heritage Labs could partner up together and share overhead and perhaps some advertising.

---

My thoughts exactly. When I chatted with Marshal and asked him if he'd considered partnering up with other brands, he brought up moment/on3p, but not praxis. Not entirely sure why.

The HL shapes are very cool looking, and my only complaint would be that they're made in a country with, ahem, loose labor laws. I did buy a pair of HL skis though, so I can't really talk. Praxis partnership would be a good way to resolve this issue and ensure the skis remain bomber quality too. Likely at a steep price increase...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by obi wan kenobi

Over the years many good product companies folded due to a lack of sales numbers (as well as for other reasons). A new website would probably help. The website and the topsheets look pretty retro 80s style (not in a good way).

---

I agree on the website, it's outdated and hard to navigate. My understanding is that Keith is the one coding it, so I doubt it's going to get a big revamp anytime soon. One thing I don't understand is why there isn't a picture of the full length of the ski on every ski page. E.g. for the FRS, you can't see what the whole ski looks like, you have to piece it together from photos of different sections of the ski. Probably an oversight, but one that needs fixing as I've seen that for multiple stock skis.

OTOH, hard disagree on the topsheets. I think that many of the topsheets, especially in veneer, end up looking stunning. Current stock of MVP94, FRS, FRD and BC look amazing. And the two pairs of praxis that I have (both with veneer) look amazing too.

I can't think of another ski brand whose skis look remotely as good as praxis. I know it all comes down to personal taste though, people absolutely rave about the moment topsheets and I find them really ugly, so I'm obviously the exception. Shapes look cool though.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by powder_to_the_people

The HL shapes are very cool looking, and my only complaint would be that they're made in a country with, ahem, loose labor laws. I did buy a pair of HL skis though, so I can't really talk. Praxis partnership would be a good way to resolve this issue and ensure the skis remain bomber quality too. Likely at a steep price increase...

---

HL skis being made in China is why I'd personally never touch one. But no doubt some of their designs look tasty AF. A partnership with Praxis where HL skis are made in USA and with Keith's badass veneer topsheets would take that brand to the next level. And Praxis could sure use more volume to fill their factory. Both would benefit hugely!

I don't see On3p or Moment ever wanting to partner with HL. Both brands are already crushing it. HL wouldn't bring anything to the table for either.

Marshal or Keith, if you're reading this, pick up the phone and have a conversation!

Regardless of that phone conversation-- people unwilling to "ever touch one" coming out of China are clinging to a seriously out-dated philosophy. It might hurt a few spirited individuals to learn that China has upgraded their production capacity 10-fold in the last few years. This isn't 1990 anymore. They've learned. Both from a manufacturing standpoint and a political one.

I understand you don't like Peak Skis, and you'll never buy an HL. But it might be a good time to wake up and realize that they, in China, are very hungry to survive as a society. And they are doing their own due-diligence to kick ass at production and rebuild their reputation as a production country.

Made In China is going to blow your mind very, very soon. That populace, as a workforce, is hungrier than any other workforce in the world. By far.

And you're wondering why Praxis is struggling? I get it.

I want to support Praxis, but everyone in the room has got to recognize that China has 100x the people wanting to steel their production capacity. And-- they have the infrastructure ready to go.

*Edit to add--
I'll pay $200-300 more for a Praxis/ON3P/Moment factory build of a Marshal design. IMO, Neither Praxis, ON3P, nor Moment has designed anything that I was so excited for that I would pre-order. Think about that. "Pre-Order." I know they're bomb-proof skis, but I've been waiting to pull the trigger for years now.

That's the mix. HL designs are what I'm buying... along with my house, my car, my other shit. I'm not a budget buyer. I'm a life-long buyer.

And, Marshal knows how broke I am. Many of you do, too. I'm in a slump, if you will. But... passing up on an HL R110? Are you out of your fucking mind? If Praxis/ON3P/Moment had designed that, this would be a different story.

HL went super niche, with low overhead/pre-order. I applaud his model.

I have a conspiracy theory that MO might be willing to close shop tomorrow and still come out ahead. But I hope he doesn't. I have a few more skis I'd like to order. And fuck, if any US factory can build the HL skis I want, I'll pay more.

Maybe limited, exclusive runs are a possible answer for a trial marriage.

I like on3p's simplified line up. Nothing excessive makes it ez to choose what ski youre after. All those skis are in the praxis line up but there is more overlap and sometimes name changes within the szme model in different widths. If you know all the skis thats no problem but it may confuse potential new buyers. I prefer the construction and veneers of praxis.
There is no way construction, base material, and edge quality and width are remotely as good from anything in china. If 100% of the big brands cant come close china certainly doesnt. I'd consider an HL ski if they werent made in china, because china and i dont think their durability will compare. Im not super familiar with the HL lineup but when i scrolled thru they looked pretty traditional in mount points and profiles. I didnt see any versatile twins ,or something to get loose on, and not many shorter lengths in any width. Maybe i missed that model on my scroll thru or possibly theyre just not interested in those things

Sent from my SM-S711W using TGR Forums mobile app

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gaijin

Made In China is going to blow your mind very, very soon.

---

Are we talking ww3 or sex dolls? because i only buy a new pair of skis like every five years.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by grinch

I like on3p's simplified line up. Nothing excessive makes it ez to choose what ski youre after. All those skis are in the praxis line up but there is more overlap and sometimes name changes within the szme model in different widths. If you know all the skis thats no problem but it may confuse potential new buyers. I prefer the construction and veneers of praxis.
There is no way construction, base material, and edge quality and width are remotely as good from anything in china. If 100% of the big brands cant come close china certainly doesnt. I'd consider an HL ski if they werent made in china, because china and i dont think their durability will compare. Im not super familiar with the HL lineup but when i scrolled thru they looked pretty traditional in mount points and profiles. I didnt see any versatile twins ,or something to get loose on, and not many shorter lengths in any width. Maybe i missed that model on my scroll thru or possibly theyre just not interested in those things

Sent from my SM-S711W using TGR Forums mobile app

---

Check out the FR110 & FR120ST if you want loose.
Build quality on the four HL skis I have is top notch.

I have a veneer Protest (bubinga too!) and a Jedi Mindstick that I'm excited to finally get some time on.

No horse in the country of manufacture race. Praxis skis are so freaking durable and well made. I currently own 4 pairs, have owned a few other pairs and I haven’t managed to significantly damage any of them while skiing and I’m In New England and I hit rocks.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by pfluffenmeister

Check out the FR110 & FR120ST if you want loose.
Build quality on the four HL skis I have is top notch.

I have a veneer Protest (bubinga too!) and a Jedi Mindstick that I'm excited to finally get some time on.

---

Thanks, ill check them out. Also i keep flipping back to the jedi ms. It does look fun. I read any report on them.
For china skis durability, im just not sure how i can be convinced. Nice to hear your comparison and ill consider that in the future, but still im trying to limit my support of chinas regime.
Side note, i love my dynastar mfree 99(mounted +2) and there is a long list of mags foaming over mfree's and dynastar and no mention of durability. The no mention is a data point i cant ignore. Great ski but so ez to get core shots or scrapes, edges need constant deburring and sharpening and they slide slow af unless i hit the perfect wax daily. Its just a night and day difference between praxis and dynastar. Factor in the durability/lifespan and praxis is 1/3 the price, 10% of the maintenance, and extra ez sliding around the shitty little up hills and flat parts of the mountain, not to mention they ski amazing. Pretty sure i'd prefer to have a 178 of my old piste jibs , and i want to add a 183 mvp 108. Thatd be a perfect ec quiver atm with my gpo's and/or bg's

Sent from my SM-S711W using TGR Forums mobile app

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by pfluffenmeister

Check out the FR110 & FR120ST if you want loose.
Build quality on the four HL skis I have is top notch.

I have a veneer Protest (bubinga too!) and a Jedi Mindstick that I'm excited to finally get some time on.

---

Checked it out. Nice option, fairly close to the mvp. Hits most of the marks. Bamboo/poplar is cool, claimed super tough and fast base and weight suggests that. I think i want some camber though. Maybe a camber and a reverse option like wndr would be worth it? It be cool if Keith made them

Sent from my SM-S711W using TGR Forums mobile app

Hey Guys,

I think skiing is better with Keith making skis and hope he can weather the storm. Not sure how I got pulled into this conversation, kind of a bummer to be honest. Had plenty of fun days on the skis of his I have owned.

I really wish Keith the best. But I can't invest enough money to pay off my home mortgage into molds with someone that's teetering on the edge of insolvency to the point of outwardly marketing themselves as such.

Keith, if you are reading, hope you can keep doing what you are doing, and happy to chat if you want a sounding board on the business stuff.

Thanks for hearing me out.
-m


Edit to add: I am trying to justify to my wife that the amount of time and energy invested into Heritage Lab is rooted in even the vaguest senses of rationality as it is.

Edit #2: Really hoping that this thread can get back to stoke about Praxis skis and helping keep the dream alive over there.

The FR110 appears to do a great job addressing the issues with the 4frnt Devastator, the 184 and 194 sizing, which is the only other ~110 ski I’ve skied that I feel is on the level of the MVP for that loose but composed type of ski. I plan to get a pair as soon as I can bring myself to stop upgrading and stockpiling my surf fishing gear :facepalm:.

But I love taking the MVP on trips because having some camber helps save my legs in some situations and the ski maintains a ton of the looseness of a full reverse design.

If you like that reverse camber feel but occasionally miss having some camber then check out the MVP, I don’t think you’ll be disappointed.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Self Jupiter

The FR110 appears to do a great job addressing the issues with the 4frnt Devastator, the 184 and 194 sizing, which is the only other ~110 ski I’ve skied that I feel is on the level of the MVP for that loose but composed type of ski. I plan to get a pair as soon as I can bring myself to stop upgrading and stockpiling my surf fishing gear :facepalm:.

But I love taking the MVP on trips because having some camber helps save my legs in some situations and the ski maintains a ton of the looseness of a full reverse design.

If you like that reverse camber feel but occasionally miss having some camber then check out the MVP, I don’t think you’ll be disappointed.

---

Thats what im thinking. Mvp strikes a nice balance

Sent from my SM-S711W using TGR Forums mobile app

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SnowMachine;[emoji[emoji6[emoji640

[emoji638]][emoji640][emoji639]][emoji637][emoji639][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji639]][emoji6[emoji640][emoji637]][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji639]][emoji6[emoji640][emoji637]]]Damn, the Protests are looking dead sexy this year. Might be time. I'm already waiting on some HL's and the ski locker is rounding out, but there's always space for just one more.....

FWIW, the website got some housekeeping and graphics are all updated. Looks great. Keep it going, Keith!!

---

if you don’t own protests, you need to re-examine your life.

^ lolol!! Sig worthy!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Marshal Olson

Not sure how I got pulled into this conversation, kind of a bummer to be honest.

---

Sorry you got pulled in. I don't recall how it happened, and I'm not interested in the research for finger pointing, but I think I speak for everyone in that the reason ON3P, HL, 4FRNT, Moment, et al. got pulled in is because we're all cheering for all of you.

You're all our heroes.

Nothing against the big-box brands. But there's just something about the craft guys who take niche approaches to their designs that has us all hoping they stick around. We're just all rooting for all of you over here from our armchairs.

The fortunate ones on this board actually buy all of those niche skis, and not because they need new skis. I wish I were one of them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gaijin

Sorry you got pulled in. I don't recall how it happened, and I'm not interested in the research for finger pointing, but I think I speak for everyone in that the reason ON3P, HL, 4FRNT, Moment, et al. got pulled in is because we're all cheering for all of you.

You're all our heroes.

Nothing against the big-box brands. But there's just something about the craft guys who take niche approaches to their designs that has us all hoping they stick around. We're just all rooting for all of you over here from our armchairs.

The fortunate ones on this board actually buy all of those niche skis, and not because they need new skis. I wish I were one of them.

---

I love supporting the smaller brands. I need a ON3P and should probably add a Praxis back in. The MVP, the BC and the Protest all look sexy this year. I really only need to fill the BC slot, but I hear that I need to own Prorests. Decisions...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gaijin

IMO, Neither Praxis, ON3P, nor Moment has designed anything that I was so excited for that I would pre-order. Think about that. "Pre-Order."

---

A lot of us pre-ordered the Praxis Powderboards way back (2007) when Keith was getting off the ground......$400 was a smokin' deal.

I have a walnut topsheet Protest in 192 and just recently pre-ordered the HL FR110.....super stoked for those.

you won’t regret buying a protest.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gaijin

Sorry you got pulled in. I don't recall how it happened, and I'm not interested in the research for finger pointing

---

Oh man, I don't mean it in a "smack talking finger pointing perspective", but rather its a bummer there isn't a fit. He isn't setup as an OEM producer. It seems praxis needs to sell a bunch more skis at full retail, so building a small amount of skis priced at cost isn't helpful. Hoping he is able to re-establish stability for praxis.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by theetruscan

if you don’t own protests, you need to re-examine your life.

---

Facts!


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by m2711c

you won’t regret buying a protest.

---

100% - can’t wait to get back out on mine!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by obi wan kenobi

Why is there so much hype about Heritage Lab Skis and hardly and buzz about Praxis Skis? Beside this thread the brand it appears to be non existent. New Models? Any new tests?
Over the years many good product companies folded due to a lack of sales numbers (as well as for other reasons). A new website would probably help. The website and the topsheets look pretty retro 80s style (not in a good way). The Skis are supposed to be very good, but I am not buying. To much other „hot shit“ out there.

Okay, tell we why I am wrong here?

---

I've said it before, but I don't think you're wrong about the topsheets. Topsheets sell a lot of skis (or conversely, convince people NOT to buy a ski) and I think the stock Praxis topsheets drive a pretty niche audience. HL has some HOT and vibrant topsheets.

A lot of people aren't gonna buy a ski with a skull getting fucked by an octopus...especially the people with the money to buy boutique skis at full price. I'm not saying there aren't people who LOVE the graphics, but they can be a tough sell to people who might otherwise be prime customers (like middle aged bay area professionals with a ski lease in Tahoe).

And its not like they don't have other options on the shelf. I've never had more people comment on a ski than my custom topsheet MVP 108s.

That said...looks like they've changed things up this year? Going to all-veneer doesn't allow for bold colors/contrasts, but the current stock graphics have been changed up a lot. I like the veneer fade on the protest and while the GPO top doesn't excite me, it also doesn't turn me off.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gaijin

You're all our heroes.

Nothing against the big-box brands. But there's just something about the craft guys who take niche approaches to their designs that has us all hoping they stick around. We're just all rooting for all of you over here from our armchairs.

The fortunate ones on this board actually buy all of those niche skis, and not because they need new skis. I wish I were one of them.

---

^^This. Just this. Well put Gaijin.

It's very close to where I'm at. I don't have the means to buy them all, and I sure "don't need" all that I buy. But the ones I do buy, yeah, that's pretty much why!

Villhöver!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SnowMachine

I love supporting the smaller brands. I need a ON3P and should probably add a Praxis back in. The MVP, the BC and the Protest all look sexy this year. I really only need to fill the BC slot, but I hear that I need to own Prorests. Decisions...

---

Touring on Protests is the best!

There's a pair of 190 BCs in the Praxis discount section...

I think Praxis would do well with a more simplified lineup and maybe a more focused brand image. The veneer skis are works of art and look stunning with many of the top sheets, and there’s nothing out on the market like them. I do know the veneer itself is quite expensive though unfortunately. But if he could sell these at ~$800/pop with the veneer top sheets, that’s pretty inline with most other brands these days. Maybe there are some wood veneers that are a little more cost effective but still look great with some good graphics. I’m a big fan of more geometric/line type art like the sets I have below.

Getting local demo days going in Tahoe in the parking lots, and social media marketing would go a long ways. People can’t buy skis they don’t know about. I always thought a spot in a warren Miller or TGR movie would be really helpful for Praxis, there’s a lot people that would be drawn to the brand if they knew about the company (Made in Tahoe, skier centric design, bomber construction quality and materials, chill owner and crew who just love to ski, great shop dog, etc).

Attachment 502360