Backlash Against Vail Resorts

Boy, so many anti Vail threads that I’m not sure which ones to bump. The fuckers are directly responsible for this death.

https://vtdigger.org/2022/05/22/stat...ployees-death/

10 days after buying Stowe they were already arguing to ignore manufacturers requirements to replace safety equipment yearly. Jamie Barrow needs to choke on a bag of dicks.

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On June 17, 2017, 10 days after Vail Resorts announced it had closed on its purchase of Stowe Mountain Resort, the director of operations and risk management at Vail Resorts, Jamie Barrow, sent an email to the president of Terra Nova, Eric Cylvick, objecting to Terra Nova’s recommendation that the lanyards be replaced every year if they were under heavy use.

“The term heavy use is undefinable,” Barrow replied. “We are not willing to accept your change to another company’s retirement criteria without a clear safety alert or service bulletin per ASTM We will continue to follow the Petzl retirement data that is clear and definitive.” (ATSM was formerly known as American Society for Testing and Materials.)

The next day, Cylvick wrote back.

“It is our opinion that this is Petzl’s requirement,” Cylvick said, citing the company’s standards for uses ranging from “occasional” to “intensive.”

Terra Nova sent out an additional alert on Oct. 24, 2019, reminding users to replace the lanyards annually.

Again, Barrow resisted. He emailed Terra Nova the same day with a four-point email, including questioning whether Terra Nova did “really intend to have this as a safety alert as this would mean all zip-tours worldwide would need to shut down until all lanyards greater than a year old are replaced.”

Terra Nova maintained that ziplines constituted intensive use and refused to delete the safety alert, the report said.

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Small world, I got Eric his 1st job ski patrolling way back in the late 80s in Park City, (actually just a matter of telling him to apply because he had his EMT and could ski and putting in a good word with the PD).

End of that season he asked what a few of us thought of him as a river guide, he had never, ever camped outside. Next thing ya know he was on the Middle Fork of the Salmon for about 10-15 years. Then he got into Zip-lines when they were in their infancy.

He is a good guy and if he says this is a safety issue I believe him.

Is the state of vermont a little behind on what is an adequate inspection for zip lines?

I am a little disturbed that Vail decided what is safe and what is not safe.

In vermont you can't get a car to pass inspection when body panel's have a rust hole and Vail get's to decide what is safe for a zip line?

I think historically Vermont has been pretty lenient with ski areas as they are a major economic driver for the state. By skimping on replacing the lanyard for 3 years they killed a guy and the state only fines then $27,306.

To go with your car inspection analogy, in 2015 the state charged a mechanic with manslaughter because he passed a car with rusty brake lines that crashed and killed someone. For sure they should have arrested Jamie Barrow for blatantly ignoring the manufacture’s requirements in order to boost Vail’s profit. Those lanyards probably cost a hundred bucks.

You'd think there will be a major civil suit or settlement. The state's findings could factor in prominently, despite the paltry fine.

Using lanyards three years is f'ing insane IMO. Those things are exposed to a lot of sun, which greatly weakens them.

That's insane. If a company sells you a system that incorporates components made by other manufacturers and are possibly being used out of spec...you go with what they tell you.

You don't go to the zipline manufacturer and say "but Petzl normally rates these for 3 years under what I think a more fair characterization of usage is"...and I can't imagine your insurance company would be happy to hear you are pushing back on recommended service interval for your zipline system. I admit that 1-year seems a little extreme for a lanyard that only sees seasonal use, but ziplines/adventure parks are atypical use and involve frequent use by a bunch of random morons rather than say...rope work professionals maintaining, inspecting, and monitoring the service life of their own PPE (and who know how to treat them nicely and watch out for potential damage).

And a Petzl JANE-Y (what I assume they are using here) is $40 max at retail. Probably cheaper when bought in quantity from an industrial supplier. It is just a short piece of dynamic rope with some sewn loops and some plastic convenience sheath parts thrown on.

It's always amazing what fucktarded hills corporate douchebags decided are worth dying on to scrimp a few coins into their win column.

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Originally Posted by yeahman

You'd think there will be a major civil suit or settlement. The state's findings could factor in prominently, despite the paltry fine.

Using lanyards three years is f'ing insane IMO. Those things are exposed to a lot of sun, which greatly weakens them.

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Sounds like the deceased was an employee, so Vail's work comp policy will pay out.
If self-insured, MTN will likely conclude that paying out quickly and for more than policy amounts is probably the least-cost solution

If they have a 3rd party carrier for WC, it wouldn't surprise me to see carrier try to weasel out of paying on basis of safety violations. Then all hell breaks loose.

And agreed with @Summit that corp management can sometimes be so incredibly short sighted about things like safety protocols.

This is so fucking sad. Those janes are so cheap that they’re almost free by comparison to a Vail budget. Vail saving a couple bucks killed this poor fella

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Originally Posted by Flounder

Boy, so many anti Vail threads that I’m not sure which ones to bump. The fuckers are directly responsible for this death.

https://vtdigger.org/2022/05/22/state-finds-vail-resorts-failure-to-replace-equipment-contributed-to-stowe-zipline-employees-death/

10 days after buying Stowe they were already arguing to ignore manufacturers requirements to replace safety equipment yearly. Jamie Barrow needs to choke on a bag of dicks.

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jesus-80 mph; no idea speeds like that were achieved on zips/you would think safety would be top priority

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Originally Posted by Bunion 2020

Small world, I got Eric his 1st job ski patrolling way back in the late 80s in Park City, (actually just a matter of telling him to apply because he had his EMT and could ski and putting in a good word with the PD).

End of that season he asked what a few of us thought of him as a river guide, he had never, ever camped outside. Next thing ya know he was on the Middle Fork of the Salmon for about 10-15 years. Then he got into Zip-lines when they were in their infancy.

He is a good guy and if he says this is a safety issue I believe him.

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Really small word, Eric was a pro when I was a voly at PCMR. Good times were had by all.

Wow.

I looks like Vail-corp is just trying to kill all of their zipline customers.

Some years ago, the same thing happened on the zipline at Heavenly. Vail willfully chose to ignore maintenance on the zipline, leading to an accident and another dead customer.

https://snowbrains.com/park-city-mou...ng-commission/

Looks like Vail is reaping what they sowed in Park City.

H8ting on Fail is easy, but is that all you got, old news?

Sounds like it's mostly a parking issue, and the lift expansion is being blocked to force Vail to deal with that.

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The issue involved has little to do with lift capacity. Decades ago the city linked parking management with lift development. The link was the notion of carrying capacity. The heart of the controversy is PCMR failure to provide adequate free parking to accommodate the increased crowds.

Parking on the park city side of the resort will all become paid parking next season. PCMR has completely failed to solve the consequences of this decision. Many if not most people skiing on the park city side will try to park free by parking in neighborhoods, creating a nightmare. This will also impact neighborhoods not adjacent to the resort. Park city has a free bus system which works well. There are not enough free parking lots that can provide parking for people to ride the bus to PCMR. People will park in neighborhoods all over the town that have bus stops nearby, again creating a nightmare.

The solution is for PCMR to build satellite parking lots that are free and have the city bus system service those lots. This will solve the nightmare that has been created by Vail’s failure to creatively manage its business and the consequences of their Epic pass explosion.

Citizens and the planning commission are using the carrying capacity of lifts as a lever to force vail to solve this problem which has been created by vail management failures.

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Originally Posted by yeahman

Sounds like it's mostly a parking issue, and the lift expansion is being blocked to force Vail to deal with that.

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Do people in Park City not have driveways?

"The solution is for PCMR to build satellite parking lots that are free and have the city bus system service those lots. This will solve the nightmare that has been created by Vail’s failure to creatively manage its business and the consequences of their Epic pass explosion."
This exists to an extent at China Bridge, the H.S., the library, Quinn's, Richardson Flat, Kimball, and I-80 near Pinebrook. The problem becomes: do you really want to drive to a lot that is up to 3-4 miles away then get on a shuttle to the resort? I don't.

Vail has created a lot of problems in P.C. that go way beyond parking. I have owned a condo at the base of the Red Pine Gondola since 2003. I have 2 underground parking spaces. This is the first year since then that I will not purchase a Canyons ski pass. Vail has acted upon the real estate master plan that existed long before their involvement. I hardly recognize the town that existed prior to the 2002 olympics, and certainly before the Vail purchase. The Canyons base has become a nightmare, and there is nothing attractive about it. I would love to see the continued poor management which may cause Vail to sell its interest in Canyons, and have that mountain go back to the Rodney Dangerfield of P.C.

also, I am in favor of no Sundance Film Festival in P.C. during the winter months.

Moved away in 91 and have not been back. I prefer to remember PC as it was. Vibes.

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Originally Posted by paulster2626

Do people in Park City not have driveways?

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apparently not

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Originally Posted by Bunion 2020

Moved away in 91 and have not been back. I prefer to remember PC as it was. Vibes.

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+1

left in 2018. about 4-5 years too late, but we still found our moments. moved out there in 98-99 old days were mind blowing good; uncontested powder inbounds and out. I honestly never imagined it would change so much

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It’s the people coming up from SLC that have no where to park. Or the people who don’t live on a bus line.

As a resident I cannot explain how fucked this place has gotten with the immediate turning point being Vail.


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

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Originally Posted by schindlerpiste

. The problem becomes: do you really want to drive to a lot that is up to 3-4 miles away then get on a shuttle to the resort? I don't. .

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When I stay in Jackson during the winter and ski JHMR, I drive to the Stilson lot and take a free shuttle to the mountian.
Drops you off right in front of the tram. No biggie. EasyPeasy. 7 miles, 10 - 15min.

https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Stil...6!2d43.5873149

Granted PC is larger then JHMR. A commitment to an efficient shuttle service is required. And that costs money.
Which is at the root of Vail's problem. If people are already parking in neighborhoods and taking a city bus wouldn't
a dedicated shuttle make more sense ?

It was an hour plus wait for a bus from the HS at times last year. To ski at PC. No fucking way


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I don’t live there but it seems to me if Deer Valley gets their lifts approved (they’re up next in front of PC council I believe) it’ll be pretty clear that it’s at least partially about Vail and not parking. People I know at Deer Valley are definitely sweating.

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Originally Posted by detrusor

It was an hour plus wait for a bus from the HS at times last year. To ski at PC. No fucking way
Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

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Originally Posted by Ski220

A commitment to an efficient shuttle service is required.

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My whole point. Thank you.

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Originally Posted by Clownshoe

I don’t live there but it seems to me if Deer Valley gets their lifts approved (they’re up next in front of PC council I believe) it’ll be pretty clear that it’s at least partially about Vail and not parking. People I know at Deer Valley are definitely sweating.

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And they got approved. It's all about Vail and how they operate.

Sounds like Keystoned planned lift to Bergman bowl is having issues.

https://snowbrains.com/vail-resorts-...road-keystone/

I know this is a "Fuck Vail" thread, but that area on Keystone isn't some kind of wilderness area. "Alpine Tundra" maybe, but there's a shitload of old mines and mining roads up there. The forest service seems to be overreacting a bit on this one.

^^^ USFS will always react unfavorably to any new disturbance they did not approve, especially if wetlands are involved.

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After discovering “damage to the alpine environment and impacts to wetlands” in Bergman Bowl, Fitzwilliams issued a cease and desist letter to Vail Resorts, which they complied with immediately, adds Vail Daily.

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Originally Posted by schindlerpiste

"The solution is for PCMR to build satellite parking lots that are free and have the city bus system service those lots. This will solve the nightmare that has been created by Vail’s failure to creatively manage its business and the consequences of their Epic pass explosion."
This exists to an extent at China Bridge, the H.S., the library, Quinn's, Richardson Flat, Kimball, and I-80 near Pinebrook. The problem becomes: do you really want to drive to a lot that is up to 3-4 miles away then get on a shuttle to the resort? I don't.

Vail has created a lot of problems in P.C. that go way beyond parking. I have owned a condo at the base of the Red Pine Gondola since 2003. I have 2 underground parking spaces. This is the first year since then that I will not purchase a Canyons ski pass. Vail has acted upon the real estate master plan that existed long before their involvement. I hardly recognize the town that existed prior to the 2002 olympics, and certainly before the Vail purchase. The Canyons base has become a nightmare, and there is nothing attractive about it. I would love to see the continued poor management which may cause Vail to sell its interest in Canyons, and have that mountain go back to the Rodney Dangerfield of P.C.

also, I am in favor of no Sundance Film Festival in P.C. during the winter months.

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First time skiing canyons pre merger....We park. Gear up. Get in the tram to go ski and the tram takes us to.....the base?

That was not a tram, it was a Cabriolet.

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Originally Posted by Percy Rideout

First time skiing canyons pre merger....We park. Gear up. Get in the tram to go ski and the tram takes us to.....the base?

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The humanity!

The fact that you didn't have to buy a tix to ride the cab should have been a hint

Sent from my SM-S908U using Tapatalk

That’s hilarious. I needed that laugh!

Epic passes on your phone, I’m sure that’s totally unhackable.

https://unofficialnetworks.com/2022/...igital-passes/

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Originally Posted by CoorsLight99

Ikon treating their passholders like absolute trash and second class citizens is worse than Vail being Vail.

You spend a thousand bucks to not ride the Tram at Big Sky and have to make reservations at all the desirable places? Terrible. If you get an Ikon Base via your home resort you can't visit JH or Aspen. Yuck.

Vail just oversells their passes for super cheap. Paid parking just sucks no way around it but its something that should discourage people from buying their passes.

Whatever I hope Ikon and Epic keep doing what they are doing I don't visit those places anymore. Had some great times at most of the major resorts 5-15 years ago. Just getting a hotel room on short notice on a weekend can be near impossible sports more popular than ever. Not a bad thing.

Honest truth the places I ski regularly had WAYYY bigger lift lines when I was a kid than they do now (tram at Cannon was ski on 100% the time last year and Waterville is simply less busy than it used to be.)

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Originally Posted by This End Up

Epic passes on your phone, I’m sure that’s totally unhackable.

https://unofficialnetworks.com/2022/...igital-passes/

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I’m in Singapore right now and everything is on your phone. The level of security to do anything but a way more than in the US. If they build it right it is totally not hackable. I have several passes on my phone tied to my phone number. If someone else with a different number tried to sign into the app with my credentials, the operation would get an alert and the person would not be able to sign in as they would not receive the OTP. Even if I provided them I’m with the OTP, the Ap checks the phones credentials once sign in. There is no such thing as privacy’s here.

Not claiming VR would actually build their system to work like that, but it is possible.

I feel like I am in future world, and while it’s nearly impossible to steal my credit card info and use it fraudulently, everyone knows what I’m doing where all the time.

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Originally Posted by Ottime

I’m in Singapore right now and everything is on your phone. The level of security to do anything but a way more than in the US. If they build it right it is totally not hackable. I have several passes on my phone tied to my phone number. If someone else with a different number tried to sign into the app with my credentials, the operation would get an alert and the person would not be able to sign in as they would not receive the OTP. Even if I provided them I’m with the OTP, the Ap checks the phones credentials once sign in. There is no such thing as privacy’s here.

Not claiming VR would actually build their system to work like that, but it is possible.

I feel like I am in future world, and while it’s nearly impossible to steal my credit card info and use it fraudulently, everyone knows what I’m doing where all the time.

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Good, however most of these systems are designed to stop a hacker who has stolen your information. For skiing I image a different senario. Such as two bros who just want to get a lower price for skiing. One bro works 9-5 and is a weekend warrior, the other bro is a ski bum and skis 9 to noon during the week. The 9-5 bro gets a confirmation request on his phone every weekday around 9am, and he pushes the "Accept" button.

Maybe you should, ya know, read the article.

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Originally Posted by Danno

Maybe you should, ya know, read the article.

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Unreal shit going on right here. And also thinking VR fans run that fast.