Wine Geekery

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Originally Posted by doebedoe

Honestly -- your palate is pretty spot on for what i'd expect from a 10 year old Rioja reserva. The oak and vanilla are common notes due to the use of a good bit of new wood for most Riojas. From your notes it sounds like it probably is in a bit of a middle stage -- lost a bit of its fruit forwardness and not yet chilled out on the tannins to let more of the earthy notes (leather? is often one in rioja) shine.

To get a feel for how that wine would be young, sometime look for a cheaper, year or two old "Crianza" which is going to show more fruit (and sometimes more oak at the same time) but typically be less astringent. Here's a brief breakdown: https://winefolly.com/deep-dive/rioj...-gran-reserva/

Dry is certainly a way to describe mouthfeel. Typically it's caused by tannins. Winos often say "grippy" or tannic.

If you like fruit-forward wines, there are a lot of fun lighter styles out there. Beaujolais (aka Gamay), Blaufrankish as gosthop mentions, Schiava, Lambrusco (some super quality producers of this historicaly maligned variatal are now around), Zweigelt, and many grenache/granacha .

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Umm I could see leather as a tasting note. Maybe that is what I was trying to describe as minerality, but I honestly don't know what I am tasting here. Pipe tobacco would be one I would reference from coffee drinking, but both leather and pipe tobacco always seemed like poor tasting notes, as I have eaten very little of each of those.

I think I would find it easier to drink if it were more fruit forward, but I don't know if easy to drink is what I'm after. My scotch tastes run to the extreme end of the Islay spectrum, and those are not easy drinkers at all. I was a little put off at first, since I didn't read anything about this wine and I wasn't expecting something so fucking dry. Grippy is a good adjective. Sandpaper tongue. Amazing how long that lingers for.

Anyway, good rec on the food. I got some premier organic food to enjoy with this, really high end stuff.

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Were you a sommelier in your previous life?!?!?

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Originally Posted by tgapp

Umm I could see leather as a tasting note. Maybe that is what I was trying to describe as minerality, but I honestly don't know what I am tasting here. Pipe tobacco would be one I would reference from coffee drinking, but both leather and pipe tobacco always seemed like poor tasting notes, as I have eaten very little of each of those.

I think I would find it easier to drink if it were more fruit forward, but I don't know if easy to drink is what I'm after. My scotch tastes run to the extreme end of the Islay spectrum, and those are not easy drinkers at all. I was a little put off at first, since I didn't read anything about this wine and I wasn't expecting something so fucking dry. Grippy is a good adjective. Sandpaper tongue. Amazing how long that lingers for.

Anyway, good rec on the food. I got some premier organic food to enjoy with this, really high end stuff.

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Cheese, crackers and salted cured meats are your friend for almost any Spanish wine.

Wait until you get into sherry...

Got into this tonight

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Did you let the rioja air for a little?
Try letting a glass sit for 30 minutes or so and it might open up, soften some of the leather.

I got some Peay yesterday, a few bottles of their 2019 Scallop Shelf. Last night, it was pretty dry and had a bunch of grape concentrate.
I let it sit overnight in the garage at 50F or so, just corked, nothing else.

Today, it's just great, starts with savory, sweeps through serious structure, a little leather/tobacco, grapeskin but just a touch of sweet at the end.

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Originally Posted by tgapp

also the worst skier on tgr. i'll even bet you $37.

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Skiing can be learned, altruism idk.

Buster drinking cali pinot is how you know the world is coming to an end.

Tonight's bottle while packing (and dinner...polenta, green beans, harissa, poached egg, feta tossed together) - a simple beajoulais. Great minerality and acid, little cedary, sour cherry and plums. Not cru level concentration..but on sale for $15 hell yeah.

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Originally Posted by tgapp

also the worst skier on tgr. i'll even bet you $37.

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I’ll take that bet. I’ve skied with some maggots who surprised the shit out of me with their inability to ski and seemed to be unaware of their abilities. Shortly after joining I actual met up with a dude for a side country tour and I thought he was going to have to be rescued. I ended up coaching him on how to side slip down a 33 degree tree run.

Also skied with some rippers who put me to shame.

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Originally Posted by tgapp

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Those glasses are hall-of-fame material.

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Originally Posted by Buster Highmen

Did you let the rioja air for a little?
Try letting a glass sit for 30 minutes or so and it might open up, soften some of the leather.

I got some Peay yesterday, a few bottles of their 2019 Scallop Shelf. Last night, it was pretty dry and had a bunch of grape concentrate.
I let it sit overnight in the garage at 50F or so, just corked, nothing else.

Today, it's just great, starts with savory, sweeps through serious structure, a little leather/tobacco, grapeskin but just a touch of sweet at the end.

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damn, yeah, that was actually my thought - as i drank through my second glass i felt like the tannins were generally a little less "on the nose" after it sat in the glass for ~50 minutes. i couldn't tell if i was just getting used to it or if the tannin/oakiness was fading a bit. either way, drinking it got more enjoyable as time went on (it felt less edgy/sharp)

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Originally Posted by jackattack

Skiing can be learned, altruism idk.

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this is a SKIING FORUM, jong. not a dogooder forum. the skis point to the left here because this isn't a goddamn charity.

any questions ask buttah, he'll set you straight

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Originally Posted by PB

Were you a sommelier in your previous life?!?!?

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seriously cheesy crackers and wine was dope, 10/10 would do again in a heartbeat.

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Originally Posted by neufox47

I’ll take that bet. I’ve skied with some maggots who surprised the shit out of me with their inability to ski and seemed to be unaware of their abilities. Shortly after joining I actual met up with a dude for a side country tour and I thought he was going to have to be rescued. I ended up coaching him on how to side slip down a 33 degree tree run.

Also skied with some rippers who put me to shame.

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ha well i'm not that bad, but i am pretty bad. still have tons of fun.

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thanks all for the wine help, stay tuned for my thanksgiving review of this Coats du Pappy bottle.

That rioja is a classic example of how wine and food can create a 1+1=3 situation. It's from an ok producer in an ok vintage so it's getting long in the tooth at 10 years old. If you drink that alone it's like having a charcoal spritzer. If you pair it with a ribeye and some ruby port reduction it'll be a dwarf pole vaulter, way short. But if you treat it respectfully and set it alongside a simply seasoned pork tenderloin with some gently sauteed root veggies (or a plate of cured meats, cheeses, olives, & crusty bread) that damned thing'll blossom and deliver the kind of real pleasure that only older wine and real food can give ya.

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This has been quite tasty, ordered from Garagiste. It is far better on day 2 than when opened. It had some unpleasant bite / funk yesterday. A day Peter and now it is a very well balanced mix of red fruit, cherry dominated to me, chocolate, and some earth / leather.

Edit - 48 hrs in its still holding up. Flatter flavors than yesterday, especially the fruit but not bad. Seems like this should have a lot of years left.


Has anyone done / setup a tasting where you have the actual items a wine is supposed to taste like to accompany the wine. I.e. if a wine is supposed to taste like nectarines and lilacs or cherries and leather you have those on hand to smell and eat while tasting. I seem to remember they did that in The movie Som. Is it as simple as collect the items noted in tasting notes and serve?

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Originally Posted by doebedoe

Buster drinking cali pinot is how you know it's a weekday and there's no one there to share one of the older bourgognes.
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fify

look at u drinking California Pino n shit!

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Originally Posted by Buster Highmen

Did you let the rioja air for a little?
Try letting a glass sit for 30 minutes or so and it might open up, soften some of the leather.

I got some Peay yesterday, a few bottles of their 2019 Scallop Shelf. Last night, it was pretty dry and had a bunch of grape concentrate.
I let it sit overnight in the garage at 50F or so, just corked, nothing else.

Today, it's just great, starts with savory, sweeps through serious structure, a little leather/tobacco, grapeskin but just a touch of sweet at the end.

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Originally Posted by tgapp

...the skis point to the left here because this isn't a goddamn charity.
....

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Your new sig.

"thanks all for the wine help, stay tuned for my thanksgiving review of this Coats du Pappy bottle." Enjoy! That is what I am drinking with my Kurobuta ham, creamed spinach and Mac n cheese

In a couple of weeks you need to stop by to pick up the 2021 vintage Christmas Cookies and Sauternes/espresso sampling before an evening of hiking up PCMR:fm:. All classics in their own way.

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Originally Posted by schindlerpiste

"thanks all for the wine help, stay tuned for my thanksgiving review of this Coats du Pappy bottle." Enjoy! That is what I am drinking with my Kurobuta ham, creamed spinach and Mac n cheese

In a couple of weeks you need to stop by to pick up the 2021 vintage Christmas Cookies and Sauternes/espresso sampling before an evening of hiking up PCMR:fm:. All classics in their own way.

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FUCK YES! in all truthfulness i had to google sauternes to understand what they are (nor did i know that they are white wines), but that sounds delicious

I have a portable espresso machine that is capable of pulling shots as good or better than any cafe in park city. Let's skin up PCMR and drink espresso and eat cookies.

My wife took a super part time job and she's inclined to not drink on a work night. I don't like to open a bottle of wine and drink it alone, besides, I generally agree that it's better to drink less. So, we decided that since we'll only be drinking 1 bottle of wine a week we may as well make it fun. To that end, we've been working through this tasting challenge on wine folly (I have a bottle of Carménère for tonight, which is week 14). Some of the wines we're very familiar with but some of them are totally new to us. It's been a fun way to plan a special Friday or Saturday night dinner that's paired to a special wine. Plus, since we're only drinking ~1 bottle a week, I don't feel guilty spending $30-$70/bottle as appropriate. It doesn't hurt that there's a very nice and friendly wine shop a few blocks from my office where I can generally get good advice about wine that I'm not familiar with. tgapp, this might be something for you to look into as you venture down this path.

https://winefolly.com/tips/expand-yo...ing-challenge/

By clicking the link on each wine in the list you can read a good overview about the wine as well as recommendations for pairings.

I like your style. It reminds me of one of my favorite old books, Shibumi" by Alex Trevanian (same author as The Eiger Sanction et. als.). Nicholas Her, caver, assassin and Go player used to serve only the best of wines, but drink only one sip himself. That way, he appreciated it more.
BTW, The Eiger Sanction took place in Switzerland and Utah. A friend of mine was one of the attractive girls in the pool scene.

Glad they didn't ry to make a movie out of Shibumi. ........ although, maybe Villeneuve ........

Day two of the same bottle. Idk if it has faded or not, but it definitely seems more approachable and less scorchingly oaky.

Drank with a proper charcuterie board, but the photo was taken while prepping (and pregaming) that board - rye/linseed crackers and a morel patê forestier from Beltex.

I would buy this bottle again. Thanks for the help, all! https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...c9d56d8838.jpg

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Does any wine at “peak” age improve over more than 4-6 hours of opening, I.e the next day?

One thing I often think is overlooked at restaurants is whether a wine needs a bunch of time to open up and how long until that bottle is finished. If there’s two of you and you’ll be there for 2 hours those wines are fine. But if there’s 6 people and that bottle will be gone in 20 don’t get the young big wine.

Also, for my fellow expense account enthusiasts, it’s a good question to ask the sommelier to get some guidance on or recommendations.


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That's part of the reason some of these modern wines (prisoner, meiomi, and caymus are good examples) are so popular in the restaurants. They're intentionally designed to be accessible immediately, both upon release and after opening. It takes the guess work out of the "how to best consume this" game unlike single vineyard cornas, for instance, which, depending on the vintage and producer, could take 10+ years in the cellar and 2+ hours in the decanter to hit it's stride.

That said, it never hurts to ask the server or som to decant a bottle that is tight when they first open it and pour you a taste to check for faults. Some places don't regularly decant anything and it confuses the staff when you tell them any vessel will do cuz you just need to get some air on your fancy wine. I've told servers to just dump a water pitcher and pour the wine in there if they didn't have a proper decanter handy.

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Originally Posted by neufox47

Does any wine at “peak” age improve over more than 4-6 hours of opening, I.e the next day?

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I think some do. Some of the old French burgs take hours and hours, like old Faivelys or de Vogues. I'll overnight some of them.

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One thing I often think is overlooked at restaurants is whether a wine needs a bunch of time to open up and how long until that bottle is finished. If there’s two of you and you’ll be there for 2 hours those wines are fine. But if there’s 6 people and that bottle will be gone in 20 don’t get the young big wine.

Also, for my fellow expense account enthusiasts, it’s a good question to ask the sommelier to get some guidance on or recommendations.

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My usual m.o. is to open the bottle and pour out a taste. Some older wines are brittle or soft and decanting them can destroy them, so if the taste seems light or flimsy, I'll recork the bottle and don't pour until the appropriate course hits the plates. On the other hand, if the wine seems robust to tight, then I'll decant or ask for the decanter.

This does seem to sometimes throw the waitstaff or somm if they're used to a particular protocol of either always decanting or not decanting and sometimes I have to be forceful about it. I have stooped to requesting a clean teapot.

I find my (more limited than dear Buster's) experience with older burgs to be wildly variable. Agreed on opening and having a short taste then decision making. Some of them need time and decanting, others are so fragile that they're flat in jiffy. And of course sometimes you call it incorrectly. Probably going to fire something older tonight along. Fingers crossed.

As for ordering in a resto, I rarely do anymore. Take my own and pay corkage (or share with the server and get corkage comped. I have a hard time getting my head around those mark-ups. No expense account here.

Yeah, I very rarely order wine in a restaurant, I usually bring my own and pay corkage.

I also usually share with the staff, but that doesn't always cause the cork fee to be waived.

In fact, prices have gotten so ridiculous that I hardly buy red burgundy at all anymore and only if it's a really good deal (like 2001 Georges Noellat Morey St. Denis for $35 recently).

Hence the more frequent new whirled pinots. In fact, trader joes pinots sometimes.

I trickle out the older ones mostly when I can share, which is increasingly rare. That maxim is eroding.

I'm about 75% corkage waived (never ask for it) when sharing something interesting.

This was pretty good with Turkey.... and I stumbled on these Viberti 1.5's I'd kinda spaced on. They oughtta be about ready to get after and really, all should be opened at once to compare the single vineyard production. Not sure how to make that make sense!

^^^yum!

We went with some Montrachet and it went well with the turkey and some of the spices.


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Damn….I want to come drink at oftpiste’s house!

Is that center bottle below the Barolo Chateau LaTour?

I definitely want to drink with oftpiste. I don’t know why he would be oft piste with that wine cabinet.

Here was our second Montrachet. It was smoother less flavor in a good way

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Originally Posted by schindlerpiste

Is that center bottle below the Barolo Chateau LaTour?

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WHO CARES ?!?!?!? THAT'S A '03 MONTEBELLO ON THE LEFT!!!!!!!

Humble brag << subtle brag.

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Originally Posted by oftpiste

. Not sure how to make that make sense!

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Obviously you invite a bunch of maggots over to share.

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Originally Posted by PB

WHO CARES ?!?!?!? THAT'S A '03 MONTEBELLO ON THE LEFT!!!!!!!

Humble brag << subtle brag.

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I didn't even notice that was in the pic until you said that. There might be 3 liter of that down there too among other MBs. What the hell was I thinking back then? JFC. SMDH.

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Originally Posted by PB

WHO CARES ?!?!?!? THAT'S A '03 MONTEBELLO ON THE LEFT!!!!!!!

Humble brag << subtle brag.

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That is a pretty bold statement. Almost as bold as the taste of a Grand Vin Latour. I do....and probably 50,000,000 other French people who would no doubt enjoy both, but prefer any "first growth" wines.

More than fair, since I haven't even come close to tasting the Latour.

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Originally Posted by schindlerpiste

Is that center bottle below the Barolo Chateau LaTour?

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Nope. I wish. Thing it's an old burg.... I'll go look later.

I'm really not trying to subtly out humbly brag or brag at all. There's a few interesting bottles, and many less so, but a good stash of Montebello's among a few others.

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Originally Posted by schindlerpiste

That is a pretty bold statement. Almost as bold as the taste of a Grand Vin Latour. I do....and probably 50,000,000 other French people who would no doubt enjoy both, but prefer any "first growth" wines.

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Uhhh…Judgment of Paris 1976

Helping a friend work through some older bottles. Mostly over the hill. St Emilion was the winner for me. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...85179e633d.jpg

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Originally Posted by Charlie Don't Surf

Helping a friend work through some older bottles. Mostly over the hill.

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That's a shame...