That is much too real worldly an idea for this space, Norse. Therefore I am in. Some backcountry mag gatherings would be a much needed boost to morale.Quote:
Originally Posted by Norseman
Printable View
That is much too real worldly an idea for this space, Norse. Therefore I am in. Some backcountry mag gatherings would be a much needed boost to morale.Quote:
Originally Posted by Norseman
I totally get it. One of my ankles flexes just fine. Good thing that around these parts, there aren't too many Wasatch skin tracks, otherwise I'd really be whining ;-)Quote:
Originally Posted by tgapp
Sidebar ... it's really 3 positions (not 5). The 2 pin-forward ones are replicated when you spin the heel 180.
What really amazes me is how high the single riser on the Shift is, but that's a whole 'nuther story (and I've heard folks bitch about that).
... Thom
Hey everyone. First time postng in this thread and am looking at revamping my AT setup for this season. I originally was leaning towards the G3 Ions but the new BD Helio 350's are intriguing. I emailed BD to see if it comes with a spacer but haven't heard back yet. The online manual states the model as "C-R12". Which ATK would this translate to? Thoughts on the BD model?
Sent from my Pixel 4a using Tapatalk
It is the ATK C-Raider 12. Its not on their site yet but its in the workbook linked below and they have a video on it here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPT0jWzazqE
The Helio 350 uses the C-Raider heel and a monolink toe, so its not the same exact binding. I think we are all wondering why BD specs the Helio 350 at 350g and ATK specs the C-Raider 12 at 305g. If anything the BD should be lighter with the monolink toe.
So first world problems surfacing here. I have a one time coupon for BD so looking at either the 200 or the 350. The brake is a weak plus for the 350 as I have skied leashes for a long time. The extra flippers are nice as I am coming off a broken knee and anything that can help is appreciated. These alone are not enough incentive to go for the 350 over the 200.
Does the brake take the place of the stomp pad on the 350?
Can I use a stomp pad on the 200 and have it ski almost as well as the 350?
Will I notice/will it be safer to have the 10mm of travel in the 350? Note, I have Vipecs and I feel they ski noticeably better than my speed turn 2. How much this is due to support of the brake pad, elastic travel in the heel or the toes I could not say.
Looks like brake removal is pretty easy on the 350. If it is a net loss of say 70g with a leash added and if the weights are closer to 300g of the C-raider 12 mentioned above seems the 350 is a better buy for me. Bindings will initially be mounted to Down ld90, but good chance I would put inserts in to swap between skis in the future.
Looks like you can get the Helio 350 for $450 with 15% coupon for first time buyers.
The helio LT200 is $360 and you can add the kit to make it the full Helio 200 for another $83
https://gear.com/collections/ski-gea...s-and-bindings
Edit: I have not tried the coupon with sale items, but does not say full price only. Double edit, found it excludes sale items
How much for a non carbon R12 with a spacer Jon?
R12 = GBP414.00 inc FedEx/UPS shipping to main US conurbations. The Freeride Spacer is an extra GBP45.00. I'm stocking the C-Raider and not the Raider but I'm pretty sure I can get you a set. ATK's price structure is whack as it'd be cheaper to get a Freeraider 14 at GBP440.00 that includes the spacer.Quote:
Originally Posted by muted
I think I'm about to order my first pair of ATK bindings. I'm still deciding between the Hagan Pure, Helio 350 or ordering the RT 10 from Europe. All of these use the Monolink toe piece, and my question is: can you use B&D Classic toe shims to flatten out the ramp angle? I read on the Freeraider thread that some people made it work, but the skimo.co page says it doesn't work. If the B&D shims do not work with the monolink toes, are there any shims that will work? Please forgive me if this has been answered before, I've been searching but my skills are limited.
I haven't followed this closely, 'coz I roll my own. If you're moderately handy with tools, and you live in a mid-size or larger city in the US:Quote:
Originally Posted by Benneke10
Find a plastic fabricator and ask them to let you go through their scrap bin. You should be able to find various thicknesses of UHMW (ultra high molecular weight polyethelyne) - cutting board material. A bit of cutting and drilling, and voila!
... Thom
I made it work with the Raider 12 2.0 and the B&D shim. It's a little wonky (the brakes hang over the spacer a bit), but I'm sure you could get the MonoLink toe to work without a problem.Quote:
Originally Posted by Benneke10
Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk
I use sheets of LDPE for cutting my own toe shims.
Thanks for the replies, I'm not very good with tools and I would much rather pay $30+ for a piece of plastic rather than make it myself (I know that makes me sound dumb). @tgapp, did you need to drill holes in your B&D spacers or were they compatible out of the box?
ha, nope!Quote:
Originally Posted by Benneke10
ironically, it was skimoco who did it and mounted them for me. hang on, i'm in a meeting now but later today i'll go snag a pic of the mount and share it with you.
So are the new BD Helio 350's the same as the new ATK Raider 12, except with a different toe piece without the hard/med/soft pin adjustment? I've read most of this + the Blister review and that seems to be the case, but not 100% sure. And odd that is at all different
Blister review - https://blisterreview.com/gear-revie...12-majesty-r12
I emailed BD about this and here was their reply....
"The BD Helio 350s are awesome and we’re very excited about them. ATK is our manufacturing partner for these bindings, however there is no exact copy between us and the products in their line. Our 350 bindings do not include a freeride spacer. They will be more similar in construction and performance to the Raider 12 in the ATK line.
As far as if they are compatible with the spacer from ATK, it is not designed with that in mind. I hope this helps! Let me know if you have other questions. I’ll be happy to help"
Sent from my Pixel 4a using Tapatalk
I love the marketing speak: "our manufacturing partner".
BD: what color can you make in?
ATK: pick from this anodizing color chart.
... Thom
I could make you someQuote:
Originally Posted by Benneke10
White labeling is an interesting businessQuote:
Originally Posted by galibier_numero_un
Perhaps ATK didn't want BD and Hagan to have any overlapping binding models?Quote:
Originally Posted by m104da
(That did happen last year with BD selling the race-oriented 110 model, which was kind of strange since BD doesn't have any skis that would worth saving such trivial weight compared to the 145/180.)
Hagan described the advantages of the new toe:
https://www.haganskimountaineering.c...ucts/core12pro
... with this:
"wider mounting pattern, uphill retention adjustment, step-in guide, and snow/ice block system"
Cool new ATK video with no relevance whatsoever to any of this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2juW-zPlbGo
Thx all, so they are different. Hmmm... more to try to figure out
I contacted ADK directly about the free ride spacer with the Helio 350 and this is their response:
thanks for getting in contact with our Support Team!
AL09 freeride spacer fits with your Black Diamond HELIO 350!
https://www.atkbindings.com/en/prodo...ide-spacer-en/
You can check it mounted on our FR14, https://www.atkbindings.com/en/prodo...ng-en/fr14-en/
Sportingly,
ATK® TEAM
Ah, *that* spacer -- I had forgotten (spaced out?) that ATK has multiple models.
Key differences are also in the verbiage...
https://www.atkbindings.com/en/prodo...ide-spacer-en/
Boring, not worth quoting.
The one that can be neatly integrated into some ATK bindings, and which I've previously installed for some people, now that starts to get going:
https://www.atkbindings.com/en/prodo...ride-spacer-2/
"AL07 has been developed for all those who want to get the most out from their equipment in any skiing condition: the sensibility in the ski-boot transmission reaches never before experienced levels; the imperceptible torsional and vertical movements that are escaped from the accuracy of our ROTATIONAL SYSTEM® are now deleted, in particular during the moments of larger loads on the system."
And FTW is the universal version of the above spacer:
https://www.atkbindings.com/en/prodo...sories/al05-2/
"AL05 has being thought for the most violent RAIDERS that make-out the vertical jumps their daily lives, as well as lovers of extreme couloirs, where the only safety thing is to have the binding brazed to the boot."
For 20/21 there are three choices of spacer:
AL05 - universal
AL07 - for the R12 2.0 & the R14 2.0 with the toe mounted brakes
AL09 - for the C-Raider 12, the Raider 12 & the Freeraider 14 (ie all with heel brakes)
Spydie, can you get me an AL07? Everywhere last couple seasons seemed to be sold out. (I live near Seattle.)
Would also be interested in getting my hands on these. Got some of the BD branded helio 180s last spring and I want to try them with the spacers.Quote:
Originally Posted by plugboots
Sent from my Pixel XL using TGR Forums mobile app
plugboots, fleaches, I've only ordered the AL09's but I've just emailed the factory to see if they have any available that they can add to my order which will be shipping any day now. I'll let you know when I hear from them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by plugboots
plugboots, fleaches, I've added a couple of the AL07's to my order which is shipping any day now so I'll PM you when they arrive.Quote:
Originally Posted by fleaches
I've just had a reply on this from ATK. The toe clamping pressure in ski mode is the same on both the 12 and 14 bindings and up until recently it was 11kg on the toe inserts (I know that's not an exact unit of pressure but that's what they told me).Quote:
Originally Posted by llyon
However, on the new/latest 20/21 production bindings the toe clamping pressure in ski mode has now been increased. The tension in the 12 and 14 bindings is still the same as each other but that tension has now been increased to 13kg.
Good news, thanks for following up on this!
Thanks spyderjon! The hero we need
Sent from my Pixel XL using TGR Forums mobile app
spyderjon- u shipping to can? when can I give you my order?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spyderjon
Can you ship to the US? I'm only seeing UK as destination shipping available on your site.
Thanks!
Attachment 340291
Thanks.
I'm in the UK but I regularly ship worldwide - there's a note on my website about sending me your requirements/shipping address if you're outside of the UK and I'll get back to you with a shipped price. If the destination is outside the UK/EU then I can supply tax free.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tex85
I've specialised in freeride/touring bindings for years but this will be my first season (ie 20/21) stocking the ATK bindings. The ATK range is far too big with too much overlap so it's not possible for me to stock all of the their range and I've had to be cautious with my stock order due to an anticipated tough season ahead due to likely CV19 travel restrictions within the UK/EU as the majority of my sales are within the UK
The majority of ATK's production is made to dealer order and I have the following bindings arriving this month:
Freeraider 14
C-Raider 12
Crest 10
Crest 8
and the AL09 Freerride Spacers to go with the C-Raider.
I can access the rest of their range but that's subject to ATK having the stock available plus the qtys have to be there to meet their min order/shipping requirements etc.
My stock order is due to ship later this week so if you get a wiggle on I might still be able to add other items to it.
I think you made good choices, given the expanse of the line. I'm sure you wrestled with the idea of a Trofeo/Trofeo Plus, but you don't see enough demand to risk stocking binders like that.
I'm still puzzled about why they keep both the RT8/10 and the Crest 8/10 in the lineup. They're such similar binders with a 20g weight difference. The RTs have the magnetic heel flaps and the toes have the "uphill hardness variator" (a cam stop to adjust for boot socket wear in touring lock mode). Those are the only differences between the two that I can discern (minor ones, at that).
...Thom
+100, I agree with Spyderjon's lineup this year. And, as a US-based consumer, Jon was great to work with - super easy, fast communication, very accommodating. This won't be the last pair of ATK bindings I order from him, though I do need my bank account to recover a bit first.Quote:
Originally Posted by galibier_numero_un
Question for Thom and Spyderjon: what freeride spacer is the ATK Release 10 heel piece compatible with?
Here's the description for the AL05 (from here: https://www.atkbindings.com/en/prodo...sories/al05-2/). It mounts to the ski - not the binding, and it appears as if the maximum height from the top sheet is 20mm. Of course, I'm sure you can add a spacer for the spacer (plus longer mounting screw) within reason:Quote:
Originally Posted by tgapp
... ThomQuote:
This accessory, already present in the catalogue of the past season, is a micro-adjustable in thickness spacer, which can be fixed to the ski in the area under the heel of the boot, just in front of the heel part.
AL05 optimizes the transmission of the boot-ski impulses deleting the empty space between the sole of the boot and the top-sheet of the ski, as well as transfers directly to the ski the vertical jumps loads without excessively stressing the boot structure.
AL05 has being thought for the most violent RAIDERS that make-out the vertical jumps their daily lives, as well as lovers of extreme couloirs, where the only safety thing is to have the binding brazed to the boot. This accessory is equipped with an elastic slide in contact with the boot that, if properly calibrated, does not modify in any way the values of the lateral release of the binding.
AL05 must be installed directly on the ski, using the two provided screws; for this reason it can be installed in front of any ski touring binding heel part, on condition that the space between the sole of the boot and the ski in the installation area is between 14.5 mm and 20 mm.
hmm yeah - my hope was to not have to put the extra holes in the skis for the AL05 but if that's what it takes that's not the end of the world. i'll wait til i have the Release 10's in my hands and post a review on 'em - I have an older pair of freeride spacers (on Raider 12 2.0's) that I hope will do the trick, I'm just second guessing not ordering a pair from Spyderjon when I had the chance.
So I rock the Hagan Core 12 with the front brake / spacer, the front brake is a bit of a PIA.
i was thinking of swapping up to the Helio 350 since the rear mount patter is the same, and the toe is a little wider but wont interfere.
It looks like the Helio 350 is the new Core 12 Pro / Raider 12 Heel Tower Assembly and just a brakeless front of a Core 12 with a wider mount pattern ... am I right in my assumption there?
I’m impressed that the atk folks have managed to make their product lineup even more confusing this year. I’m only interested in about 20% of their bindings and I’ve still lost track of all their iterations.