Found a relevant meme from the Ikon FB page:Attachment 310475
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Found a relevant meme from the Ikon FB page:Attachment 310475
Jesus wept, thank fuck I got out there Friday... I'll take 40 knot gusts and a mild cold over this crap any day.
Echoing what someone said last page, I've been following my usual code of "avoid Saturdays at all costs," even on other days I've definitely noticed more traffic and fuller lots than last year... but I haven't felt that on the hill itself. I basically just don't go into the lodges for more than water, are people just posting up in them all day or something? So many cars but the runs seem the same. Haven't known what to make of it.
Also Buster, I appreciate where you're going with all this but as a dirtbag in a hand-me-down 2WD sedan, c'mon man, don't screw me over here... the road is rarely worse than the drivers... I've always been impressed with how well they plow it given some of the circumstances, and have gotten the sense that 90 is wildly worse. Getting up there after snowpocalypse was the only time I remember things being truly white-knuckle (though that was a wednesday, and nobody was around, so there's that.)
Short-term for weekends, if I were them I'd try to set up some kind of mega-lot in Enumclaw and bus people up from there, temp lease and chain up the local school buses or something, make it free or like $5 so people actually do it. I'd probably be fine with using that personally, the drive up usually stresses me out anyway, even on weekdays (tangent, but my fantasy is just a few road widenings to make some three-lane passing sections; it'd be nice to allow the conga line to at least redistribute itself. Sucks when you're 5 cars back from the inevitable slowpoke with the weird braking habits, especially when it's nice out.)
As far as the passes are concerned, yeah, I skied crystal anyway but getting ikon in May was clearly the deal to be had, so things worked out in my favor. I've got little insight as to the greater math here. Greater expense isn't going to keep these hordes away, if there's anything I've noticed about the young seattle bourgoisie it's that they love spending money on dumb stuff they use twice. My hypothesis is that a lot of these pass sales might be this, the techie version of an unused gym membership purchased just after New Years'. Definitely dreading these infastructure improvements but they also strike me as immaterial in regards to numbers. And like I said the cars in the lots on shitshow saturdays (did one or two last year) just don't seem to account for the relatively quiet mountain, that equation has never really added up to me... moral of the story, I'm spoiled rotten skiing this hill, even on shit days, the problem is indeed the road and the parking. But they've definitely fucked up.
When properly equipped, they're absolute monsters in the snow.Quote:
Originally Posted by Norseman
My predictions… the RV lot is much smaller next year and they start charging for parking if you don’t carpool. And more Honey Buckets.
It's all about whether people give a shit about one another.Quote:
Originally Posted by Afkpuz
You can afford chains and the time to put them on, otherwise, you and a bunch of other people are just saying fuck you to everyone else.
If the sign say chains required, there's a reason.
And I really do think their road maintenance by Alterra has been orders worse than by Kircher or even by the board.
Like I said 87.27%Quote:
Originally Posted by Afkpuz
Alterra needs a weekend watching WSDOT maintain SR542 during/after a storm for the weekends at Baker. I can't recall many days where you couldn't get up that road in a RWD pickup with 3/32 tread on some all seasons.
One of the other issues with CMB is everyone is stopped on the road waiting to go into a parking lot. There has got to be a system to keep all of the vehicles moving forward as long as there is available parking. Kind of like boarding an airplane from back to front (eh, bad example but you get the idea).
If you really want to "fix" the problem, and no one is going to like this, but single occupancy vehicles that aren't employees are $100 to turn up the blvd. Double occupancy $50, and 3+ is free. Force people to carpool or at least group up in Enumclaw.
I used to be of the "just get up and leave at 4am", which I have done. But now having a little one to deal with, that just isn't as easy as it used to be so opting to just stay home on weekend powder days is the new norm.
87.27%...Quote:
Originally Posted by ridinshockgun
Have you ever seen how long the line gets at the toll booth for Sunrise on a busy summer weekend... it can be over an hour wait to get though the toll booth.Quote:
Single occupancy vehicles that aren't employees are $100 to turn up the blvd. Double occupancy $50, and 3+ is free.
You want that at the base of the blvd?
Force people to ride share with strangers and then coordinate their departure with same car pool back down or would you have to organize a second down hill car pool separately at the end of day?Quote:
Force people to carpool or at least group up in Enumclaw.
Would I have to car pool with guy on bald tires in RWD truck or a hand me down 2WD sedan?
Armchair quarterbacking is great isn't it? You get to have all the ideas and never have to implement them.
No need for a toll booth - It can be like good to go, just charges a toll based on how many Ikon passes it detects in the car :D
I'm guilty of single occupancy driving a lot but not afraid to admit that it is a big problem. Not really implying to find a stranger and partner up but while it may not make sense to carpool from Seattle or Tacoma or Everett or wherever but it could make sense to meet in Enumclaw, Glacier, Sultan, North Bend etc for the final drive up the hill.
So it might be cost effective to buy three Ikon passes so as to avoid the $100 solo vehicle charge.
Oh, Alterra is going to love this idea!
What used to work was a WHP at the mouth of the blvd on storm days checking for appropriate traction. Typically, 2wd cars had to chain up so there would be a lot of cars doing what they were supposed to.
Now I know it's convenient to blender this in with the occupancy issue, but it's not an issue of occupancy, it's an issue of traction and giving a shit about other people.
As far as Alterra Management, it's not the weather, it's a lack of planning, Like requesting WHP at the mouth of the blvd, And sanding the road before 6 am. You know, like they used to before the fashion of stockholders being more important than clients or customers.
They were running the grader over F lot both mornings this weekend before 7.00 as I drove past.Quote:
Originally Posted by fullStack
So yes the 9.00 a.m. plow will very probably have been due to...
Quote:
"the weather".)
The mountain was complaining that this was up to WSP over the weekend... however there are plenty of events and businesses that pay for off duty cops to control traffic.Quote:
Originally Posted by Buster Highmen
Right. Sure. Up to WSP. Uh huh. It didn't cross their little minds. After 2 all time bad weekends of this. Selling more than 3x the record number of passes. I hope people get up in their grill about selling services not reasonably available.Quote:
Originally Posted by PNWbrit
Got the chains (and a bunch of other "just in case" stuff.) In fairness it's been quite some time and I should probably practice. And I will also admit that the place has me spoiled. We're lucky; it's not super cold here like in NH or something, road salt generally works, we don't have the situations where you just have to keep salting 2 inches of sheet ice for days on end and hoping for the best (years ago I drove the road into the Grand Canyon and it was like 50 miles of this, doesn't have to be New England, just has to stay cold as hell.) That's the stuff that really scares the crap out of me, so knowing it's not there does probably incline me towards some hubris. If we had that kind of ice I'd probably need to find some other way up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Buster Highmen
This is a bit oblique to the greater topic but in my defense when I think of crappy driving the first thing that really comes to mind is following distance, which I do have quite a bit of religion about. The whole situation is pretty terrible for this on the way up on a crowded day, if the lots back up it's hard to avoid stacking... but what gets me is how close people will tail you when they do have the choice. That's is the selfish and dangerous part I see every time: people not giving the person ahead any room for error. Doesn't matter what you're personally driving. You don't know how old their tires are.
Anyway call me an asshole if you want, I can understand. But I do know my car isn't exactly ideal for this stuff; I've got what I've got, hoping to keep it for another 100k, in the snow I'm thankful it's at least got some weight to it (and good new tires, thank fuck for those,) and I'm plenty cautious when called for. And like I said, if there were a cheap shuttle from Enumclaw or a carpool system down there or something I'd probably take it, especially when the road is shitty, but thinking more on it, maybe even when it's just busy. Sounds kinda nice to just throw some headphones in and zone out for 45mins rather than showing up to the hill trying to wind down from a commute. That said I'm not sure a lot of other people think like that, and alterra is clearly making money, so 5-10 bucks or less in order for it to entice people, I'd guess.
Point being they could choose to punish people like me, or give them a better option, and I'm rather obviously inclined towards the latter. So c'mon, man. Shutting guys like me out doesn't stop the moneyed hordes.* The road is the problem here.
As far as maintenance, things have looked pretty much the same to me, but I haven't paid much attention so I'll defer to you in that regard.
*I guess the tech bubble popping might though
I think I have seen them direct people to specific lots etc on crowded days, but not sofar this year... that said, you're right, I hate this but it would work. People would need a place to make the carpooling or a shuttle or whatever happen. Again, some kinda big lot in Enumclaw or something. I wonder what relationship they've got with the city anyway... do they have one?Quote:
Originally Posted by ridinshockgun
e:Can vouch, definitely seen this. I don't have insight as to why - you'd think it'd be the release valve, logically, so long as more than one lot is open - but I have seen it and been baffled by it.Quote:
Originally Posted by fullStack
They're planning on giving the 100 people turned around on 410 most times this year a free Ikon pass.Quote:
Originally Posted by Buster Highmen
Please put on your chains. Back in the early 80s, when they had cops checking on 410, I always did, on a 71 BMW 2002.Quote:
Originally Posted by Afkpuz
I'm past calling people assholes, but I will accuse people of not giving a shit about each other.
Yes, people follow too closely. They don't give a shit. All I can do is try to give a shit.
So the 212th person gets fucked, right? I think there's legal grounds for misrepresentation of services.Quote:
Originally Posted by PNWbrit
I hope some of you call the FS and complain about mismanaging public resources.
Maybe the simple act of metering entrants onto the Blvd will allow for traffic to stay moving, thus avoiding spinouts as people try to get going uphill from a dead stop.
Fair enough. Looks like she was a pretty car btw, fun to drive I hope?
... Is that fuckin' true about the pass thing? Because that is some bullshit. Don't even know what to say to that.
Honestly not a bad point either... IIRC the worst saturday I've done was the same one I saw two expensive-looking audi SUVs with a lot of bells and whistles spun out for exactly this reason. If there's gonna be a chokepoint let people wait it out on the flat.Quote:
Maybe the simple act of metering entrants onto the Blvd will allow for traffic to stay moving, thus avoiding spinouts as people try to get going uphill from a dead stop.
They need to line 410 with Honey Buckets. I always have to piss real bad right before the turn up the Blvd.
I've pulled over at the closure sign there before the left turn up to take care of that.Quote:
Originally Posted by AK47bp
While even I run out of shit, I can see that I'm in questionable company when it comes to infinite piss and vinegar.
You mean like an on ramp meter? Maybe pulses of 10 or 15 vehicles? I suppose... but would need law enforcement there to make it function.Quote:
Originally Posted by californiagrown
It takes the threat of jail time to stop people poaching terrain being avalanche controlled... these powder technicians are not going to sit and wait for a green light in the middle of the forest.
And you know the fucking bus drivers will just blow right past in the downhill lane anyway.
Id like to see some weekday powder days, like today are. With almost a foot of fresh over night to fill in the gaps, along with a solid wind buff, it bet it was skiing really nice. Normally 75% of my days have been on weekdays and obviously much prefer the whole experience. The mountain didnt feel crowded over in green valley, and as long as I stayed away from the lodges I was fine. However, I didn't like hearing about some of the overly intoxicated individuals (some dude even dropped a pill bottle skiing around getting chased by what I assume is security (yellow jackets). I also had some people on the gondola trying to convince me it wasn't worth heading over to northway which seem like he was trying to shoo me away from the goods.
I have an issue with crowds, so I try my hardest to stay away from large groups of people but I'm glad I guess with the limiting parking the extra space on the mountain. We really need more resorts or terrain/access expansion in existing ones, with access available from multiple point of entry distributed through different parts of the available parking. I dont ever need to see the lodge when I'm out skiing, just get me to a chair.
or just pay a wsp trooper overtime to turn folks around without chains... including AWD/4WD without chains in the vehicle.
As previously suggested. These guy's union have a great set up for rent a cop gigs.Quote:
Originally Posted by XavierD
While yes you're supposed to have them in AWD/4WD the delay in checking all such vehicles for them would be ridiculous.Quote:
including AWD/4WD without chains in the vehicle.
And it really isn't un-chained AWD/4WD vehicles that cause the major problems. It's 2WD chaining up after getting stuck on the blvd... because they're really good drivers
Almost all of the carnage we witnessed were 4 wheel spins from AWD's w/o dedicated snows that were stopped /backed up on an incline spinning all 4. Explorers, Subarus, Volvos, Mercs, etc. Lots full of big money cars without the right rubber.Quote:
Originally Posted by PNWbrit
and awd/4wd who keep their oem all season tires on all winter.
you don't have to enforce it for every vehicle all the time, but a half dozen spot checks throughout the season can have a solid impact. It just enforces the idea of being prepared and thinking about road conditions.
the LEO OT for hire scheme is well ironed out across pretty much all departments. Every cop you see at a sports game, concert, road construction project, or assisting with parking isn't being paid by the tax payer.
FIFYQuote:
Originally Posted by XavierD
Subaru manual says no chains. Never had traction issues with X-ice on all four with AWD.
I support a cop at the Blvd doing chain control.
As much as chain control sucks.... Look at i80 (donner pass) vs i70 (summit co).
Outside of straight up road closures - a slowdown on I80 is because of chain control. A slowdown on I70 is because of some 1984 Buick with bald tires spun out into the K-rail.
And there is a gatekeeping aspect about having to look a LEO in the face before you drive up a steep snowy road.
Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
AWD/4WD need to have chains in the vehicle when they are required for all other vehicles.Quote:
Originally Posted by Grizz
you can put chains on a subaru.... they need to be the snug low profile ones but ya won't die.
Since I’ve never had to use chains, for a 4Runner SR5 that’s RWD and shifts to 4WD, what tires do you chain? Front or rear?
May buy a pair to keep in the back in the rare chance of them being required on AWD/4WD.
Normally, the WSP just waved AWD/4WD with snows on through.
on the drive wheels for 2wd...so, rear for youQuote:
Originally Posted by AK47bp
Rear. Though its 4wd it isnt a 50-50 split on power sent to axles. I believe 4runners (or at least gen 4) is a 40-60 split front to rear. Someone please correct me if i am wrong though.Quote:
Originally Posted by AK47bp
That's how I remember it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Buster Highmen
Yep, yep.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mofro261
It's usually the first couple of miles up the blvd that cause the issue for unchained 2WD with above average drivers though.
Pretty unusual to ever see an AWD stuck there.
Saturday's chaos was apparently triggered by a bunch of vans... I hear.
If you enjoy drifting put them on the front.Quote:
Originally Posted by AK47bp
And yes carry chains... there are signs all along 410 telling you this is state law.
Yeah, but you're so old your memory is questionable.Quote:
Originally Posted by Grizz
;-)
blast from the past. deeznutz