Heh. After all the naysayers to my thread last year, now everyone wants a skinny goat. ;-)
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Heh. After all the naysayers to my thread last year, now everyone wants a skinny goat. ;-)
Any thoughts on the 184 Atris (which I own) vs the 108 Kartel in a 186 as a quiver of one (west coast and Europe)? I like the Atris well enough for inbounds skiing, but find it "hinges" on me a bit in heavier / variable snow. Guessing the 108 Kartel would be a bit beefier, be more stable at speed but still be nimble / playful in trees and bumps? The Kartel's description on the website (esp. the flex) sounds $$$$.
Also assume the ON3P will have the Atris beat for durability. Could go 181, but prefer mid 180s for the extra edge (keeping those Euro groomers in mind......)
5 ft 10, 74kg, ski fairly centred, finesse / playfulness over power / speed.
Having skied both, I own the Kartel 108.
The Kartel is noticeable more damp and burly. The Atris is lighter and nimbler. You also won't go through the base of the Kartel the first time a rock shows up.
Thanks for the input Xavier. Yeah, those Atris bases.... I've seen paper bags that are tougher.
Iggyskier, curious to hear more about your tests with flat or subtle reverse camber. As a big fan of the metal Volkl Katana, Rossi Sickle, and 4FRNT Devastator as daily driver skis, I love the feel of a subtle reverse camber ski. The ability to pivot and shut down speed quickly is so useful. What do you guys not like in the ON3P line up with that design?
I'm not going to speak for Scott or ON3P. But the reason I personally don't like reverse camber skis like all the ones you mention is that they lack life, pop, and snap out of a turn when you load them up on firmer snow. I'll grant that a reverse camber ski pivots easier and shuts down speed faster, I just don't really care that much about that.
I have found that On3p skis are surprisingly easy to shut down and slide around for the level of stability they offer.. not like katanas, or the og flat cochise, but its close.
Moment skis has the new Meridian for this year. Full rocker all mtn. I dont know if its low profile tho.
I loved the old Katana too, its only flaw IMO was the lack of pop that Adrenalated said.
I also didn't like how far back the sidecut was centered. The mount point was -14. I really like -8 or -9. Mounting it at around -11 wasn't too bad though. That ski was awesome. Still have 2 pairs that I'll never let go of. I could get it to pop on hard snow, but you have to be going pretty fast to generate the force to get it into a good bend. Line Supernatural 108s have some of the best pop for hard snow carving but aren't really burly enough imo. Curious to try out the Wren 108.Quote:
Originally Posted by aevergreene
Agreed... Wren 108 might wander into my quiver this season.
I think Volkl made the Confession slightly too wide at 117mm, it should have been 112. Would have been like a katana with a little camber and taper.
also forgot to mention, at 200lbs, if im on anything full rocker shorter than 190cm, I have to stay really forward during transitions to flat or I wheelie. Never have actually fallen in the wheelie, but its not a super confident position when running out the bottom of a bowl at 60mph. Happened on 184 katanas and 187 hojis, but wasnt nearly as noticable on the longer versions.. your suposed to stay forwrd during these transitions, but with the rocker I felt like I had to get "really forward"..
I had my 184 katanas +1cm and my 191s at +2, and felt like I could go farther forward..
Stoked on custom options
Anyone have their kids on a pair of Charlie Murphys? Working on gettting my 10 year old on a pair of 141's.
^Brand new model. I am looking forward to reviews as well and they need a girly version.
Just ordered some of last year's Wren 102's for my growing stepson. The wife will take over his 161 Viciks.
Looking forward to more reviews of the all the new Wrens for myself...98 in particular. I want to stay off anything wider this winter to make sure my knee mends.
I know most ON3P do not, but the Steeple 112 don't happen to ski short do they?
I think my wife would *really* like Billy Goats. I've never been on a ski I thought was better tailored towards her style/preferences. I dropped the ball on ordering 164cm when they were available (sorry!). I might be able to get a custom pair if the mold still exists, but won't find out until mid season. In the meantime I've seen seen some 174cm Steeple 112s for pretty cheap. My gut says too big, but I've never been on them. I'm also tall so I don't have much experience skiing skis over my head in the modern era.
5'3"/160cm 120lbs
Aggressive, strong, center stance, lacking traditional race form (self taught)
Would be replacing her "powder" skis
60/40 inbounds/touring
Everyday skis are 171cm Kartel 98s. Longest ski she has ever owned, but she hasn't used anything else since getting them.
In my brief experience with steeples and BG's, they are definitely maneuverable and easy to ski once you get a little used to them. I think if she's on 171 Kartels, 174 Steeples should be no problem for her, the only thing is you have to get used to seeing more ski in front of your foot (the Kartel being a little more center mounted, and the BG shape being further back). Once you get over the weird visual, and get a feel for the ski, they're great. I normally ski a 181 Jeffrey, and when I got on the 184 BG, my first reaction was "wow, this ski could almost replace the Jeffrey as a Daily Driver."Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasGortex
However, if she loves the Kartel so much, and you want to get her a powder ski, have you considered the Jessie 108 or Kartel 116? Similar shape to a ski she likes, but more powder oriented?
Thanks for input. How tall are you?
She demo'd the Jessies and didn't like them, especially the widest one (which I think would be closest to the Kartel 116), but ended up loving and buying the Kartel 98.
They didn't have any goats in her size but I took a pair out and think they would be a really good fit for the way she likes to ski.
I may have taught her how to ski but we have very different tastes in gear. I want a Kartel 116 more than anything else in their lineup and she hates my daily drivers (Kästle XX). Her daily drivers don't exactly click for me either.
I'm 5'8"
That's pretty close to the same height/length difference she is looking at. Thanks!
Just saw your message..sorry for the delay as I've been on my bike pretty much every chance I can get the last few weeks.Quote:
Originally Posted by tss4420
There are no Charlie Murphy's out there yet as others have mentioned. I can tell you that it is basically a mini-Kartel with a slightly tighter radius but still built exactly like our adult skis. Strong, durable, and doesn't take any shit :)
I will also be putting my 10 year old on a pair this season so great minds think alike!
Email me if you have any other questions on the Charlie Murphy (or those Wren 88's I know you are thinking about). Jay@on3pskis.com
Girly graphic and variation is in development for 17/18. My daughter will not let me forget about the need for it.Quote:
Originally Posted by uglymoney
Reviews are great and we love it when people honestly review our skis...but I can promise all of you that ON3P will be doing more demos than ever before starting this season so many of you will get to try exactly what you want.
You CAN always just trust your gut, however and buy them now, too. We won't get angry. :cool:
So am I. We already get the requests to make things softer, stiffer, lighter, and prettier...now it can be done by our customers with all options laid out.Quote:
Originally Posted by aevergreene
And not that cosmetic beauty should matter this much, but the Green sidewalls....drool.
So it won't be weird when I just keep asking to make them prettier? I am tho thoked!
Can you guys make me skis with glitter topsheets and recycled whalebone scrimshaw bases?
hey powtron, I emailed you a few questions.
And add me to the list of buyers for a girl's charlie murphy variant, especially if you go to a 13x for starting size.
May not be to 13X sizes this season, but perhaps the following. Let me know if I answered your questions via email and if not just hit me up again and email smack me. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by optics
You did - very helpful and very painful in terms of upcoming wallet extraction.Quote:
Originally Posted by PowTron
My 8-year old's ready to help with graphics ideas for the girl-version-CM for 17/18, fyi. She's pretty badass, you might want to take her up on it.
My BGs have been my workhorse this season in NZ. I've skied heaps of long alpine lines. Pow, wind effect, creamy, some very mellow terrain, some corn, some crusts, even crossed some tracks. It is ski worth skiing, and a keeper. I'm yet to ski them in deep pow and trees, and unfortunately probably won't unless I get a custom tour version as my Japan workhorse. But before that, I'll research a 98 or 108 Steeple in standard layup, or a 98 Wren, for my narrow NZ workhorse to compliment the BG.
There they are...
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/h7...w2326-h1552-no
Sick pic. I can't wait to ski my BGs this season!
Powerful, easy skiing but still eats things up, they truck and are super smooth at speed, not too wide, camber energy but still slarves like a boat. Likes some tip pressure and doesn't require a perfectly composed neutral stance over a tiny sweet spot. It's a narrow Protest.Quote:
Originally Posted by aevergreene
High Praise. Anyone have time on both a BG and Protest or more appropriate the C&D and protest? Curious about thoughts comparing them on deep lift served days.Quote:
Originally Posted by neck beard
Adrenalated answered that for me a few pages back.Quote:
Originally Posted by adrenalated
I just got last years 193 C&D, they seem like a wider, Billy goat with a boatload more tip rocker and no camber. They aren't super heavy either, or at least not as heavy as I thought they'd be. Post 2015, they come with the tour layup as standard.
What's pretty cool is that you can customize the new 191 C&D with the regular layup..for those AK skiers that is.
I think it is the pinny kind of tail and a fore ski with a set-back wide point, big radius and some camber that makes them similar. Perhaps more so when you mount the Protest back from the line. My P's were moved 1.5cm back from memory, and they became more of a shin-ski, yet still with a little arch-love getting results, like the BG feels (to me).Quote:
Originally Posted by ghosthop
I have not skied the BG in deep storm snow, but I'd guess the Protest skis that with more float and pivot, because it is much wider.
I have skied both the protest and BG in boot pow, thin pow, dense 3d, chalks, thin variable etc. I prefer the BG as it gives enough of a wide ski advantage in that kind of 3d, and fewer of the even wider ski disadvantages that the Protest has. I always maintained that the Protest is a pure pow ski. The BG is more versatile away from pow. Neither are good on hard groomer kinds of snow or ice.
I skied the 186 BG for about 10-15 days last year, and 187 protests for 4 or 5 days. BGs mounted on the line, protests at -1. I skied them back to back on a day with super heavy, deep cement, and the protests kept diving, while the bg floated like a champ.Quote:
Originally Posted by neck beard
I've also felt like the protests were diving/acting unpredictable in lighter snow and/or easy tracked out.
All in all I'm not that impressed by the Protest, while the BG is on my top 3 list.
It might be that I should have bought the Protest in 192
First and foremost, the Billy Goats are my favorite skis. I own the last year of the 191s. I do not love them for their untouched snow performance though..
May get flamed for this, but.. I don't think the Billy Goats float as well as they're hyped up too, which is funny because I find all on3ps to float exceptionally well for their waist widths. All except the BG. They definitely are good for that, but they are not the best. I feel that they are more of a chunky, choppy 3D snow ski, and they are a little heavy for light & dry. They do the job, but more of a West Coast Resort Powder Charger, than an untouched snow ski IMO. If it's upside down snow, or super heavy untouched, than they are great, but the lighter and drier the snow gets, the less they excel. The steeple 112 floats better than the BG in cold smoke, significantly, and On3ps tour layup straight up kills it in pow.
To be honest though, I feel a little forward on the Billy Goat. I'm on the recommended mark, and didn't want to mess with that, which is probably why they're so good in bumps, trees, and tight spots for its size/weight.. However I'd like to throw a pair of marker schizos on them and test different spots.
I'm over 200lbs and in this category I found the 196 moment governor and 189 k2 obsetheds to float better. Thinner skis that float better are steeple 112s, and 4frnt Hoji. I just love the feel of the Billy Goat though, and bought the Cease and Desist for better floatation.
I've skied a number of pow skis, and IME the BG floats up there with the best of them. At 5'11" and 160-165#, the 191 BG is all the float I need. I switched off between the 202 L138 and the 191 BG on a day with 39" overnight and 72" in 24 hr, and, at speed, both worked just fine for me. Sure, the L138 does better at "breaking trail" on low-angle stuff, but the trade off is that it has so much float underfoot that it can actually make landings feel a bit harder than the BG.
If I were larger, the 202 L138 would be my big-day pow ski for sure, and I encourage all you big guys to give it a shot.
The more I think of it, I felt what I described above mainly when skiing heavenly, my home mountain, where I get most of my days in.. There are only a few spots with decent fall line, and the BG just needs speed. I do have one day at kirkwood, and vaguely remember them being much floatier with the fall line. But 10 days with them at Heavenly, which just isn't the BGs cup of tea, is the majority of my memory.
What I should have said, is that there are floatier skis for skiing at moderate speeds, in very deep untracked, on a moderate pitch... Heavenly sucks, thank god I got my squaw pass this year.
Still, the 193 C&D will be a nice addition for uber deep days.
The 191 Billy is one of my all time favorite POW skis along with my 196 Renegades and floats my 6'4" ass with no issues... However, I will admit I am stoked to be getting my 191 116 Kartels and 189 98 Wrens which are suppose to be at my shop in a couple of weeks... Let the countdown begin...
Kartels are super fun.Quote:
Originally Posted by Undertow
Read what you and POW had to say about them and am so stoked... I grew up loving traditional skis and once I tried a pair of rocker, camber, rocker skis with a more centerish/forward mount I have been hooked... So fun and versatile and will still get after it...Quote:
Originally Posted by PhiberAwptik