Bread Baking (sourdough)

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Originally Posted by billyk

Having lived in the Bay Area, I love good sourdough bread. In the last few years (10 or so) I’ve started to find decent sourdough bread made here in Austin, as well. I’d love to try making it myself, but the care and feeding of the starter looks like a chore that I’m pretty sure I’d forget at some point. It’s just a lot easier to buy the bread.

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If you refrigerate your starter you only have to feed it once a week plus it can take a lot more neglect than if you keep it out. Not that you should neglect it. I feed mine on Saturday night so I can use the discard to make a sponge for Sunday morning sourdough blueberry pancakes. YUM!



Speaking of SF - did you know it has it's own specific yeast?

Lactobacillus sanfranciscensis

Why Is San Francisco's Sourdough Special?

Almost every food lover associates sourdough with San Francisco, but why is that? Surprisingly, it's because sourdough really does taste better in San Francisco! Here's scientist and food specialist Robert Wolke explaining it to NPR:

"The sour flavors come from lactic and acetic acids produced by inevitable environmental bacteria, which are working on the flour's sugars along with the yeast. Different bacteria make different sour flavors; San Francisco is awash in local bacteria species that make its sourdough bread famous. So sourness per se in some ryes and many other breads is quite desirable."

And there you have it: San Francisco's sourdough bread is good because San Francisco's bacteria is particularly tasty. Some may find that a touch gross, but I think it's incredibly awesome.

Every where has unique lacto. Often brewery contaminations are traced back to what is called "house lacto".


Many sour brewers will collect and propagate wild bacteria in the back yard.

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Originally Posted by KQ

If you refrigerate your starter you only have to feed it once a week plus it can take a lot more neglect than if you keep it out. Not that you should neglect it. I feed mine on Saturday night so I can use the discard to make a sponge for Sunday morning sourdough blueberry pancakes. YUM!



Speaking of SF - did you know it has it's own specific yeast?

Lactobacillus sanfranciscensis

Why Is San Francisco's Sourdough Special?

Almost every food lover associates sourdough with San Francisco, but why is that? Surprisingly, it's because sourdough really does taste better in San Francisco! Here's scientist and food specialist Robert Wolke explaining it to NPR:

"The sour flavors come from lactic and acetic acids produced by inevitable environmental bacteria, which are working on the flour's sugars along with the yeast. Different bacteria make different sour flavors; San Francisco is awash in local bacteria species that make its sourdough bread famous. So sourness per se in some ryes and many other breads is quite desirable."

And there you have it: San Francisco's sourdough bread is good because San Francisco's bacteria is particularly tasty. Some may find that a touch gross, but I think it's incredibly awesome.

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I think even just once a week might be asking too much. Although maybe it would add a little more structure to my life, who knows.

I’d heard that about the SF yeast, and had pretty much given up on finding good sourdough elsewhere, and certainly not in Texas. However, in the last few years, I’ve been pleasantly surprised at the quality of sourdough that’s been available locally. Maybe some bakers have managed to transplant starter from the Bay Area and have it keep its properties intact?

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Originally Posted by billyk

I think even just once a week might be asking too much. Although maybe it would add a little more structure to my life, who knows.

I’d heard that about the SF yeast, and had pretty much given up on finding good sourdough elsewhere, and certainly not in Texas. However, in the last few years, I’ve been pleasantly surprised at the quality of sourdough that’s been available locally. Maybe some bakers have managed to transplant starter from the Bay Area and have it keep its properties intact?

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Well it certainly looks like there is a lot of sourdough to choose from in Texas. A quick Google turns up a plethora of articles, reviews and recipes. I'd say you're not doing to bad down there the lone star state.

Where are you? I have family in Jasper, Colmsneil, Beaumont and Tyler.

And you’ll be baking bread and feeding starter more than once a week if you just try it out

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Originally Posted by KQ

Well it certainly looks like there is a lot of sourdough to choose from in Texas. A quick Google turns up a plethora of articles, reviews and recipes. I'd say you're not doing to bad down there the lone star state.

Where are you? I have family in Jasper, Colmsneil, Beaumont and Tyler.

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Currently living in Austin. My current favorite sourdough is from a bake shop called Easy Tiger, but there are several others that do a decent job.

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Originally Posted by iceman

I've basically never baked in my life but I love good bread, especially sourdough. In the course of starting their business my wife and daughter have come to know this guy who makes just ridiculous sourdough. I'm stoked and the bread is great: https://loafbakehouse.com

My wife has become a gluten freak over the past couple years but she'll eat this bread, so it's a double bonus. Guy is young, he's a CPA but he bagged that to bake bread instead. He's selling all he can make at a farmers' market and at a couple restaurants so he's not taking orders online at this point but he plans to in the future.

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The plot thickens. Ice's wife is hanging around with some young Baker dude.

It's true. Dude has a lot of bread too.

He absolutely rolling in the dough?

Show me the proof.

He has a lot scratch?

...

I heard he's kinda shaggy.

Just watch out that he doesn't have a better rise, ice.

Ready. Set. Starter!

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Originally Posted by SB

Ready. Set. Starter!

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get after it!

So a couple of jongy questions.

I got the initial feeding done and its in the fridge, smells great.

I have a qt Ball jar of discard starter in the fridge also. How long can I keep it for use?

They sent me an email with recipes for the pizza dough and pretzels.

What are your bread making methods for the starter? I think there is a rise period that needs to happen?

Mine seems to have an almost jelly consistency. Gonna try to make bread on Sunday.

I dun dood it!

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Had to bump up my oven setting to 395Ffrom 350F the recipe said for 60+ minutes and brushed it with butter at the last 10 minutes. Turned out pretty good, hit internal temp of 205F. Used my porcelain coated cast iron 6 qt pot.

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Originally Posted by SB

I dun dood it!

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Had to bump up my oven setting to 395Ffrom 350F the recipe said for 60+ minutes and brushed it with butter at the last 10 minutes. Turned out pretty good, hit internal temp of 205F. Used my porcelain coated cast iron 6 qt pot.

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Awesome but the real proof is in the crumb - show us the crumb!


Re: the rest - I keep unfed discard in the fridge for up to a week. If I don't use it I toss it but you don't need to keep it at all. You can toss and/or use right away.

I use a Cook's 24hr sourdough recipe that involves a cold rise in the fridge overnight then I heat a baking stone to 500 for a couple hours, turn the oven down to 450 and bake it on parchment on the stone spritzing it with water before it goes in the oven then twice more in the first 5 mins. Total baking time is 30min.

Recipe calls for:

MAKE THE SPONGE
MAKE THE DOUGH
KNEAD THE DOUGH
LET THE DOUGH RISE (3-5hrs until it dbls in bulk)
STRETCH THE DOUGH (to redistribute and refresh yeast)
DIVIDE AND SHAPE THE DOUGH (makes 2 boules)
REFRIGERATE THE ROUNDS OVERNIGHT
PROOF AND SLASH THE ROUNDS
BAKE THE BREAD

It's a drawn out recipe. Lots of easier ways to make it but I'm used to it so it's what I do.

BTW - you need to slash that top. You can use a sharp knife or get a lame designed specifically for that purpose:

https://www.kingarthurflour.com/item...__16_09_36_134




P.S. I did a quick Google search for sourdough in a Le Creuset and up popped a ton of recipes that say "no knead." I don't really get that - kneading isn't that big of a deal and for some reason I find it enjoyable. For me it's part of making bread. Maybe it's because I remember watching my grandmother and parents make bread as a child and kneading was something they taught me. <shrug>

Slash it, one does that when it goes in the oven?

This?

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The crust was nicely crunchy, the bottom is very crisp.

Crumb looks good. When it comes to "crumb" there are universal standards/desires depending on the type of bread but ultimately I think it comes down to personal preference.

Crumb Analysis

And just for fun:

11 Breadmaking Terms Every Serious Baker Should Know

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Originally Posted by SB

Slash it, one does that when it goes in the oven?

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Yes - right before it goes in the oven.

Bread scoring with confidence

Scoring is slashing the dough with a blade or a sharp knife to allow it to expand during baking. The purpose is primarily to control the direction in which the bread will expand during “oven spring.”

feed the bitch

bourdain. werd.

Gotcha

I used the starter straight out of the fridge. Probably should let it warm up a bit before mixing.

The bread is good, it's a bit more dense than I thought it should be. Maybe a longer rise?

Edit to add; Watched a few tutorials on the utoobs. My quick and dirty method leaves much to chance.

Will try again soon but use better kneading and much longer proof/rise. I also found a KA bread flour at the grocery and will give that a try also. Much to learn and practice.

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Originally Posted by SB

Gotcha

I used the starter straight out of the fridge. Probably should let it warm up a bit before mixing.

The bread is good, it's a bit more dense than I thought it should be. Maybe a longer rise?

Edit to add; Watched a few tutorials on the utoobs. My quick and dirty method leaves much to chance.

Will try again soon but use better kneading and much longer proof/rise. I also found a KA bread flour at the grocery and will give that a try also. Much to learn and practice.

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I used to use Bob's regular flour but one time I had to buy the organic because the store was out of regular - could not believe the difference it made in the rise of my starter. Since then I only buy organic flour.

Make sure you're using distilled water too.

Here is the recipe I use. Yes I know it's long and drawn out but it produces nice loaves with good crumb. Just remember to turn the oven down once you get the loaves in - I might have forgotten once (or twice) Oops.

I'm not sure if it's the prep/baking method or my starter or what but I've noticed that the loaves I make are fresh much longer than the ones I buy in town from a local bakery.



24-Hour Sourdough Bread
MAKES TWO INSTRUCTIONS 1 1/2-POUND LOAVES

WHY THIS RECIPE WORKS
In buying a ready-made starter for our sourdough bread recipe, we produced a flavorful loaf while eliminating the weeks of intense babysitting that cultivating a home starter requires. Turning our attention to the next two time-consuming stages of a sourdough recipe—sponge development and fermentation for the dough—we discovered that the time required for both steps could be reduced from two nights to just one day, again without sacrificing flavor. On a roll, we also tried to finish the third step—proofing the shaped loaves—on the same day, but we determined that they really did need to spend the time overnight in the refrigerator, since the loaves proofed at room temperature didn't achieve the same wonderfully irregular crumb and deep, nutty sourness.

INGREDIENTS

SPONGE
4½ ounces refreshed starter (½cup)
3–4 ounces bottled water or filtered, (⅜-½ cup), 80 degrees
5 ounces unbleached all-purpose flour (1 cup), with 11 to 13 percent protein content


DOUGH
12 ounces bottled water or filtered, (1 ½ cups), 70 degrees
24 ounces unbleached all-purpose flour (about 4 ¾cups) with 11 to 13 percent protein content
2½ teaspoons table salt




Once you have a healthy, refreshed starter the bread will take about 24 hours (over the course of two days) before it is ready for baking. It is best to start the recipe in the morning, no more than 12 hours after the last feeding of the starter.

Comments:
For the sponge, use the lower amount of water if you live in a humid climate. During kneading, this dough should not exceed a temperature of 80 degrees. If your kitchen is very warm or very cold, use water a few degrees cooler or warmer, respectively. A few pieces of equipment are highly recommended: digital scale, baking stone, parchment paper, instant-read thermometer, and spray bottle filled with water. A baking peel and razor blade are also handy but not essential. The dough can be kneaded by hand, but the kneading times must be doubled. When spritzing the loaves in the oven, be careful to avoid spraying water on the oven light.



1. MAKE THE SPONGE: In bowl or container with at least 1-quart capacity, use rubber spatula to stir together starter and water until fully combined. Stir in flour until combined; mixture should resemble thick pancake batter. Cover with plastic wrap and let rise at room temperature (about 72 degrees) until doubled in bulk, 2 to 3 hours.

2. MAKE THE DOUGH: Measure water into bowl of standing mixer; add sponge to water. Fit mixer with dough hook; with mixer running on lowest speed, add flour 1/2 cup at a time. Once all flour has been added, continue kneading until dough forms ball, about 1 minute longer. Cover bowl with plastic wrap and let dough rest 20 minutes.

3. KNEAD THE DOUGH: Using fingers, create pocket in rested dough; add salt to pocket. Knead on low speed until dough is soft, smooth, and moist (dough should not be sticky), about 5 minutes. Transfer dough to clean work surface and knead by hand until dough forms firm ball, about 30 seconds.

4. LET THE DOUGH RISE: Lightly spray container or bowl with at least 4-quart capacity with nonstick cooking spray; place dough in container and lightly spray surface of dough. Take internal temperature of dough; then cover tightly with plastic wrap. If temperature registered below 78 degrees, set container at room temperature (about 70 degrees) in draft-free spot; if warmer than 78 degrees, set container at cool room temperature (about 65 degrees) in draft-free spot. Let stand until dough doubles in bulk, 3 to 5 hours.

5. STRETCH THE DOUGH: Scrape dough out onto clean work surface. Gently stretch dough (to distribute and refresh yeast) as far as possible without tearing, then fold it into thirds like a letter.

6. DIVIDE AND SHAPE THE DOUGH: Using bench scraper or chef's knife, divide dough in half, each piece weighing about 1 1/2 pounds. Form each half into rough ball, cover loosely with plastic wrap or damp kitchen towel, and let rest 15 minutes. To shape dough, use one hand to push dough against unfloured work surface, using other hand as guide. Goal is to make taught ball without ripping surface. Pinch bottom seam and set each round, seam side down, on separate sheets of parchment paper on dinner plates, rimless cookie sheets, or inverted rimmed baking sheets.

7. REFRIGERATE THE ROUNDS OVERNIGHT: Spray rounds lightly with nonstick cooking spray and cover loosely but completely with plastic wrap. Refrigerate overnight 8 to 12 hours.

8. PROOF AND SLASH THE ROUNDS: Remove rounds from refrigerator and gently slide onto room temperature surface where they can rise undisturbed for several hours; space them at least 6 inches apart. Loosen plastic wrap to allow rounds to rise; let rise until at least doubled in bulk and dough barely springs back when poked with your knuckle, 3 to 4 hours. Meanwhile, after about 2 hours, adjust oven rack to lower-middle position, place baking stone on rack, and heat oven to 500 degrees. Working one at a time, carefully slide rounds on parchment onto baking peel, rimless cookie sheet, or inverted rimmed baking sheet. Using sharp razor blade or knife held at 45-degree angle to work surface, slash surface of rounds 1/2 to 3/4 inch deep.

9. BAKE THE BREAD: Working quickly, spray loaves with water, slide onto baking stone, and immediately reduce oven temperature to 450 degrees. During first 5 minutes of baking, spray loaves with water 2 additional times; bake until deep golden brown and instant-read thermometer inserted into center of loaves registers about 210 degrees, about 30 minutes total. Transfer loaves to wire rack, discard parchment, and cool loaves to room temperature on wire rack, about 2 hours.

Here's a timely article:

WINTER TO SUMMER YEAST BAKING: MAKING A SUCCESSFUL TRANSITION

Do you ever have trouble with a much-loved yeast recipe suddenly starting to misbehave? Maybe your baguettes, always shaped so nicely, mysteriously fall flat. Or the dough for your favorite weekly sandwich bread, usually so easy to knead, is suddenly unbearably sticky. Plus your shaped loaf rises in what seems like just half the time. Transitioning from winter to summer yeast baking can be tough; what’s going on?

Simple: it’s the weather. Namely, increased heat and humidity.

That’s a good point. I’ve noticed that with commercial bakeries as well. Seems like the best bread was always on a cool dry day.

Got me starter out last night, fed it this morning. Gonna try to make a loaf on Saturday.

May do a sour dough discard pizza this evening.

So what kind of cheese do yall like to pair with the SD?

Milfco has a fairly good variety to choose from.

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Originally Posted by SB

So what kind of cheese do yall like to pair with the SD?

Milfco has a fairly good variety to choose from.

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You mean like a Ploughman's lunch or are you talking about pizza topping? I use mozzarella and parm most of the time - nothing special. Really I think any cheese you like will go fine with a sourdough crust.

If you are interested KA puts out a magazine called "Sift" and the most recent issue has a section on Pizza.

Sift Magazine - Spring 2019

This book is also wonderful:

Pizza Night (Williams-Sonoma)

Was just thinking chunk or slice of cheese on a hunk of bread.

Made two more loaves today, turned out better. Followed the instructions for kneading and proofing. I think my porcelain pot is too big to use for baking the bread as it turns out flatish. Will post pics later

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Originally Posted by SB

Was just thinking chunk or slice of cheese on a hunk of bread.

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I'd go with something semi soft or a triple cream or better yet, some Irish or Amish butter.

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Originally Posted by SB

Made two more loaves today, turned out better. Followed the instructions for kneading and proofing. I think my porcelain pot is too big to use for baking the bread as it turns out flatish. Will post pics later

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How big of a pot do you have? I would think anything over 7qt would be too big. The Cloche that KA sells measures 6½" tall x 13¼" wide including handles with a 9½" in diameter baking surface. Maybe use that for a rule of thumb?

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Originally Posted by KQ

I'd go with something semi soft or a triple cream or better yet, some Irish or Amish butter.





How big of a pot do you have? I would think anything over 7qt would be too big. The Cloche that KA sells measures 6½" tall x 13¼" wide including handles with a 9½" in diameter baking surface. Maybe use that for a rule of thumb?

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My porcelain ci pot is 6qt, my 4 qt ci pot and lid/skillet is just right.

I have a 4 qt Al pot but only use it for certain things.

Promised pics, altogether a 100% better result.

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Originally Posted by SB

Promised pics, altogether a 100% better result.

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Good work!

Did I post this about scoring techniques? Remember how you score will encourage the direction of your loaf's rise.


BREAD SCORING TECHNIQUES: CREATIVE, DECORATIVE CUTS

With a blade in hand and a shaped round of dough on the workbench, bakers have an unexpected blank canvas before them. First and foremost, scoring bread dough with decorative cuts serves an important purpose: it guides a loaf to rise in a consistent, controlled, and optimal manner. But from there, let your creativity run free. As the old saying goes: we eat first with our eyes.

In Association with ADM Milling Co, King Arthur Flour Company, Inc. voluntarily recalls limited quantity of Unbleached All-Purpose Flour (5 lb.) because of possible health risk

Was at Costco other day and found some blueberry vanilla goat cheese, its fantastic on SD bread. Also got a proof basket that came with some other handy bread gadgets.

Got a batch going today, bakers later.

kewling

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