espresso making mags?

NESPRESSO FANS: Yes, it's OK to love the simplicity of these awesome machines. No, no other "pod" systems compare.

(I'm pretty sure I have posted this in here before. I used run a ski lodge in Switzerland where we had an awesome Simonelli. Eventually we bought a Nespresso so that guests could make their own coffee at any time, I was an instant convert. That's what we have at home now, these things rock, sure it's not the worlds best espresso but I don't expect to make that at home and there's no mess.....)

Bump because Huck is right. Nespresso=almost idiot-proof, decent espresso @ $.60/cup from a machine that does not break the bank. Otherwise, I like my Bialetti Moka pot jet fuel maker for raw power.

I started down the espresso road a little while ago and honestly it is a whole lot harder than I ever realised it might be but I think part of that is having a cheaper machine and needing to work around it's shortcomings. Machine is a used Gaggia Classic off ebay and replaced the steam wand with one from a silvia and grinder is mazzer mini E. In the end I bought a k-type thermocouple thermometer and stuck it on the boiler since anything else was like working blind. I also had to DIY a pressure gauge to adjust the overpressure valve so it was putting out 9 bar (was 10.5). There is sometimes some messing around to dial in a new coffee but I have a good handle on it, steaming milk to get microfoam was tough to learn again something probably much easier on a better machine.

Even after figuring all this out making two reasonable sized lattes with a single boiler machine like this takes about 20min of mucking about and mess - a proper dual boiler machine is like £1200+. I can see why so many people go for nespresso.

Some friends of mine came back from a trip to England with one of these little manual, totally non-electric little beasties!!

It takes a knack to get the pressure just right and uniform during the "squeeze"...but you learn. Once you get used to it, it puts out an admirably tasty little cup of espresso!!

The best things about it: its simplicity and its agreeable price - $135.

Its called the ROK Espresso machine. Look it up!! The thing is also very ruggedly made...which is a definite plus.

Oddly, the thing reminds me nearly exactly of the "martian-machines" from War of the Worlds.



http://wordlesstech.com/wp-content/u...so-Maker-2.jpg

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Bumping this, just graduated to a Gaggia Classic after my roommate's "Espressione" shit the bed. Disappointing results so far, my shots pour out in less than 10 seconds so I guess I'm under-extracting. Minimal crema, less than 20%. This all leads me to believe that my grinder, a cheapo Krups bur grinder is grossly inadequate.

Ordered the Ascaso i-Mini mentioned above. Reviews indicate it can be finicky but produces a great grind. Looking forward to trying it out.

dammit, why'd you have to bump this thread. I forgot all about it.

Now I am going to have to start shopping. Really needing an espresso bump at home...

I bought the Saeco Aroma like 7 months ago. Works perfect, love it. There are user complaints about the milk-foaming doohickey being awkward to use but I never use it so I dunno. Good espresso fast is what I wanted and it's perfect for that.

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Originally Posted by rugbydave

I've had this machine (http://www.breville.ca/beverages/esp...e-800esxl.html) for a year or so now and couldn't be more stoked on it. Have a generic burr grinder as well (might step up to a nicer one) and get perfect crema every time... Easily one of the best gifts my old man ever gave me. Was looking to get one for the lady-friend for Xmas but didn't realize how expensive they are...

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http://www.breville.ca/cafe-roma-espresso-machine.html

Then get one of these ^^ Dave, I had one before I got the Racillio Sylvia, I still use it often cuz I traded the roma to my neighbor for a pair of 223 DH's

and forget that 199$ price tag cuz they are often on sale at london drugs

For quick, single serving espresso-like drink I have switched entirely to an Aeropress (not sure if it's been mentioned here yet). It's not a true espresso, but if you brew a batch and add a bit of water and half and half it's a great Americano equivalent in about 3 minutes total.

Plus at $30 it's a steal compared to at-home machines.

http://aerobie.com/products/aeropress.htm

That ROK looks cool but unless a M/C is electric you got more fussing waiting for hot water

I can hit the timer on the burr grinder/hit the pump switch on the Sylvia /load the toaster/fry an egg all at the same time

and maybe only burn the toast

I need help with my espresso game. I have my usual roast dialed, which I think is on the normal/darker side, but I recently got a bag of a lighter espresso roast and can't manage to make it not annoyingly sour. This is not the first time -- I've had the same issue with beans from one of my favorite local shops

I've done plenty of internet reading (e.g., here), but am stumped

Apparently sour means under-extraction, so I've tried a finer grind, dumping the first ~3 seconds, slightly different dosing & tamping strength. I have not yet messed with temperature and timing (beyond the 3-sec start-dump). Can't really blame my gear, unless this is a super finicky process that only the most hardcore espresso artisans can master. I'm in Denver so have some temperature limitations due to altitude, but I've had good espresso from a shop whose beans I can't seem to put to good use

What should I be doing differently? Or is that just how new trendy espresso is supposed to taste these days? Pablo's Coffee kinda agrees...

I'm not an espresso snob--I get my beans from safeway--but recently some german friends brought me some ground, pretty light coffee. Not sure what it was, I don't read GErman. Too fine for my french press, too coars for my espresso machine. I tried to get a decent cup of espresso out of it but all I could get was sour. I don't know how espresso is "supposed" to taste but I know I don't like sour, even if that's how it's supposed to be. Not much help, sorry.

a small cup should take 16 seconds to fill. you don't have to throw away the beginning of the shot.

make sure your shot is not too large, 40 ml max, 35 better.

you should get good crema. I had a problem with my machine, temp wise, until I found out that the metal part where the head (the part where you put cofee) is very hot you can't touch it.

water temp should be about 180f + when it pours into the cup.
hard to measure, but it can be done.


goes, ie th

If you have reasonable confidence you know what you're doing sounds like you just have beans you don't like. Flavor profile differentials can be drastic. Ive had lots of beans from respectable roasters I just didn't dig.

If happening across multiple bean sources not sure what it can be other than perhaps the grind. What are you using for a machine + grinder?

Could be... Only counterargument would be that one bag of sour beans came from a shop whose espresso I generally like. But maybe I've always had it with some milk/foam, concealing the sourness. The beans in question do make a perfectly acceptable latte...

Using a Rocky & Silvia w/PID, so I'd like to think that I can't really blame the gear. Getting consistent timing, temps, and crema (although the latter did take some time to dial in)

rod9301 - I didn't know about throwing away the first few seconds and don't typically do it, only tried because it was suggested as a shortcut to reduce sourness. Didn't really make that much difference

Perhaps if you haven't already keep going finer on the grind and slightly upping the volume in the basket. Not to push the machine too hard but I am consistently surprised at how many variations I have to factor into grind settings for different beans. Huge setting swings.

I too have been surprised at how much of a difference the grind makes -- even between batches of the same beans. Sure, I had heard about it but dismissed it as pretentious coffee snob minutiae. Apparently it's for real.

Bit too late now, but will try to ratchet down the grind even finer tomorrow, and offset that with lower tamp pressure to maintain a normal flow rate. Come to think of it, I remember being surprised by the guy at local coffee shop mentioning that they tamp with barely any force...

To make proper espresso you need to invest about $1200 min. plus coffee.

I just give $3 bucks to a barista and call it a day.

anyone here ever have turkish coffee??

Turkish coffee blows, try it and tell me I'm wrong.

3 things to make a good espresso, nail them and then look to your beans for adjustment.

1. Grind (particle distribution of fines to coarse is key so has to be burr).

2. Tamp it like a mother to achieve a...

3. 22 second extraction for a double.

I drink turkish coffee. it's especially good when I go camping or backpacking.

but good anytime.

I do have a big espresso/cappuccino machine, use it every morning for cappuccino, and alsonespresso machine for an espresso in the afternoon.

turkish coffee in greece is amazing,,,, but I prefer coffee in italy.

https://www.tetongravity.com/images/...626__forum.jpg

Quick Mill Double Boiler and Mazzer Mini. Replaced a Rancilio. Silvia. Doesn't make any better espresso, difference is that it makes the best shot I could ever get out of the Silvia, but 95% of the time instead of 10%. I use whole beans that were roasted no more than a week prior and mostly stick to the same blend. Still need to adjust grind dependent on humidity.

nice looking machine & nice to know but also a whole lot mo money than the sylvia and above my pay grade ... I am gona stick with sylvia

bump

Christmas shopping for the gf, looking for a nice mid level and it seems gaggia is the way to go? The titanium model grinds and does most of the work itself. Would that be a good middle of the road no hassle machine? I know fuck all about this except where to find the SB in town.

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Originally Posted by Todd Zander

bump

Christmas shopping for the gf, looking for a nice mid level and it seems gaggia is the way to go? The titanium model grinds and does most of the work itself. Would that be a good middle of the road no hassle machine? I know fuck all about this except where to find the SB in town.

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Have you checked out this 2014 review?

Best Espresso Machine – Espresso Machine Reviews

Add: That site gives this Gaggia a good review (looks like it retails for around $350-$400):

Gaggia 14101 Classic Espresso Machine – Best Value Espresso Machine

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Originally Posted by Todd Zander

bump

Christmas shopping for the gf, looking for a nice mid level and it seems gaggia is the way to go? The titanium model grinds and does most of the work itself. Would that be a good middle of the road no hassle machine? I know fuck all about this except where to find the SB in town.

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I've had the Gaggia Classic and recommend it as an entry level. As always, the grinder is the first most important thing to buy and not skimp on. Plan on at least $250 for one of those. If you are looking mid level consumer end, I'd recommend the machine I currently have (Crossland CC1) as it has a PID and will produce a more consistent shot.

You might be getting sticker shock as your start to look around so it really depends on how much $$ you have and how happy you want to make your gf.

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Originally Posted by Yonder_River

I've had the Gaggia Classic and recommend it as an entry level. As always, the grinder is the first most important thing to buy and not skimp on. Plan on at least $250 for one of those. If you are looking mid level consumer end, I'd recommend the machine I currently have (Crossland CC1) as it has a PID and will produce a more consistent shot.

You might be getting sticker shock as your start to look around so it really depends on how much $$ you have and how happy you want to make your gf.

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I have a gaggia classic, these things are so cheap over here - mine was £70 used off ebay.

They are simple machines and to get the best out of them you really need to read up on temp surfing and other techniques; if you do you can save a whole pile of money. I use a thermocouple thermometer on the boiler (£6 off ebay) so I can be precise with the temperature otherwise you are working blind. 6 secs of steam switch before pulling so the boiler is heating up as the cold is going in which minimises the temp drop. For steaming I start exactly before the thermostat trips so the heater never clicks off otherwise in runs out of steam pressure very quickly. My next step is to mod it to be able to manually activate the steam heater coil intra-shot to help hold it consistent. PIDs on these are of limited value on these machines since they can't deal with the intra-shot temp drop without fancy further electronic mods to the PID system using multiple alarms and lots of playing with P, I and D values. Modding the classic to use a silvia steam wand is pretty much a must do too.

More expensive machines get you consistent results without all this messing about and can also knock out many milk drinks one after the other but means you can get into four figures for the privilege.

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Originally Posted by narc

I have a gaggia classic, these things are so cheap over here - mine was £70 used off ebay.

They are simple machines and to get the best out of them you really need to read up on temp surfing and other techniques; if you do you can save a whole pile of money. I use a thermocouple thermometer on the boiler (£6 off ebay) so I can be precise with the temperature otherwise you are working blind. 6 secs of steam switch before pulling so the boiler is heating up as the cold is going in which minimises the temp drop. For steaming I start exactly before the thermostat trips so the heater never clicks off otherwise in runs out of steam pressure very quickly. My next step is to mod it to be able to manually activate the steam heater coil intra-shot to help hold it consistent. PIDs on these are of limited value on these machines since they can't deal with the intra-shot temp drop without fancy further electronic mods to the PID system using multiple alarms and lots of playing with P, I and D values. Modding the classic to use a silvia steam wand is pretty much a must do too.

More expensive machines get you consistent results without all this messing about and can also knock out many milk drinks one after the other but means you can get into four figures for the privilege.

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Ya, I got tired of temp surfing and don't have the interest or time in installing a PID. That is a great price for the classic. I sold mine on Craigslist for $175 a few months ago.

The Crossland CC1 has a digital display, auto adjusts it's temp, and allows for programming like pre-infusion, temp, interval time and shot time. It also has a thermoblock and will steam as long as there is water in it. For $650, it's a good deal versus buying a Silvia and modifying.

I do. I have a DeLonghi MAGnifica machine and an old school espresso pot. I use Cafe Britt Costa Rican coffee which is available on-line, and which IMHO is the best coffee in the world for the price. You guys should visit www.cafebritt.com Ask Tippster, or skifishbum. They know what I'm talkin' about.

I might have to look into upgrading. That cc1 sounds interesting. I also have a Gaggia classic. Been solid for almost a decade now but certainly not perfect.

At risk of diverting thread, anyone know why all of a sudden my shots are coming out quite foamy. Never had a problem like this before. Likely related to change of coffee bean and just not dialed in on volume, grind, tamp but not sure what to change.

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Originally Posted by Yonder_River

The Crossland CC1 has a digital display, auto adjusts it's temp, and allows for programming like pre-infusion, temp, interval time and shot time. It also has a thermoblock and will steam as long as there is water in it. For $650, it's a good deal versus buying a Silvia and modifying.

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FWIW you can buy a pre-modded Silvia that preserves the warranty. But it's more than $650...

I like mine, even though it takes me a few tries to dial in new beans (except the one a few posts above). Biggest complaint is that it doesn't steam milk as well as the coffee shop, but it's also $20K less than a commercial machine...

I have a saeco aroma I have been quite happy with. ..

My coffee snobbery is still in its infancy tho, so I don't really have much to compare it to

+1 vote for hand grinding with a Hario. Cheapest and slickest way to burr grind.

I've been using an Aeropress lately and although it's great, it's not a total substitute for real espresso

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Originally Posted by JayPowHound

I have a saeco aroma I have been quite happy with. ..

My coffee snobbery is still in its infancy tho, so I don't really have much to compare it to

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Oh, just wait...

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Originally Posted by dcpnz

I might have to look into upgrading. That cc1 sounds interesting. I also have a Gaggia classic. Been solid for almost a decade now but certainly not perfect.

At risk of diverting thread, anyone know why all of a sudden my shots are coming out quite foamy. Never had a problem like this before. Likely related to change of coffee bean and just not dialed in on volume, grind, tamp but not sure what to change.

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I'm not an expert by any means, but as long as you have good fresh beans, first guesses would be either too course a grind or temp is too high.

I am not a coffee snob, but my girlfriend is trained and employed by Blue Bottle itself and a Sightglass wholesaler. She goes on and on about boiler and head pressure, temperature, and portafilter coverage. This also doesn't cover steam needs for milk and milk fat content. They only use beans roasted that week and many of those have been imported recently. Sweet Maria's has some really good equipment in their website. They are world famous for their equipment, roasters, and green bean imports. Check them out.

Or just buy the solo Slayer. It is totally reasonable if you want to never hear another no in your relationship.

thanks for the quick input guys, I will be re-reading through this thread several times in the coming weeks I am sure.

I think I settled with the gaggia classic with their burr grinder as well. Going to have to check out some beans too, hopefully grab some locally.

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Originally Posted by Todd Zander

thanks for the quick input guys, I will be re-reading through this thread several times in the coming weeks I am sure.

I think I settled with the gaggia classic with their burr grinder as well. Going to have to check out some beans too, hopefully grab some locally.

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This forum will be your friend: www.gaggiausersgroup.com

It really is worth reading everything you can on this machine to get the best out of it. The silva steam wand swap and a thermocouple thermometer on the boiler are must haves, cost very little and require no real DIY.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dcpnz

At risk of diverting thread, anyone know why all of a sudden my shots are coming out quite foamy. Never had a problem like this before. Likely related to change of coffee bean and just not dialed in on volume, grind, tamp but not sure what to change.

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When did you last backflush and descale?

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Originally Posted by narc

When did you last backflush and descale?

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I try to remember to backflush with detergent about every month. Descale less frequently unfortunately.
Good suggestion/reminder. I'll give both a go.