I wish we could demo boots. I'd love to demo a double Boa boot because it actually seems great on the upper cuff, but...buying them is a lot of money to throw down if it's not great.
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I wish we could demo boots. I'd love to demo a double Boa boot because it actually seems great on the upper cuff, but...buying them is a lot of money to throw down if it's not great.
Some shops do offer demos on boots. Now I have no clue how you would find out which ones have doable boa yet.Quote:
Originally Posted by DigSki
Huh, had no idea. How do I know which shops offer demo boots? Any in SLC, or only Florida shops?
shit none here do demos. This conversation came up over on skitalk and Phil had mentioned there are a decent amount of shops that actually do demo boots. How you find out which ones I have absolutely no idea. I'd get you'd just have to call around and ask.Quote:
Originally Posted by DigSki
Floridasnow, thanks for the lesson in ski boot manufacturing economics. I learned a lot of that information from reading the thread as it has developed but you wrapped it up nicely for me. Thanks. Who the fuck said I was afraid of change? I simply prefer buckles over BOA and yes, I have tried BOA ski boots enough times to make my decision to ski buckle boots. Also, I don't really care what K2 does with their boots as Ive been wearing Lange for a long time with a few years of wearing Lowa Structura Evos when I was touring on frame bindings. I also wished Skip Dooley good luck with his boots. Nobody (especially me) is clutching fucking pearls over this.
Blister Summit is gonna have double boa boots (and hundreds of skis and other ski related items) to demo.Quote:
Originally Posted by DigSki
Got a whole day trying the new Cortex boot. The fit was quite awesome for someone like myself who actually has a 96mm last foot. Took me a few laps to really figure out where I wanted both BOA dials, but once I did I was pretty pleased with it. Just back it off a few clicks when getting on the lift and you're good. I can't say I noticed any annoyances with getting the dials to achieve a consistent fit from run to run, but I do think that it will be as important as ever to get in a properly fitted boot when it comes to BOA. I may stick with the new Atomic Remedy boot (I ski the redster CS now) just for the simple fact that I'm neurotic/impatient and have my buckle setup so dialed on the redster that it's quicker for me getting off the lift to just shut those lower buckles and go.
Knowing that you are on your setting is not an insignificant thing. I think this speaks to the anxiety in all of us haha.
yeah I put the ladders on the same notch every time SO i don't know how that would work with BOA
I was making a general statement about the masses who want companies to keep producing buckles across the whole range. Wasn't meaning just you personally.Quote:
Originally Posted by halliday
most lower boas have markings so you can get it set to the same spot every time. Not sure about the uppers though.Quote:
Originally Posted by XXX-er
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I've yet to get the double boa on snow. But, having now skied some of the lower boas on snow, I have an informed opinion:</p>
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BOAs are totally fine. I skied in a wider boot than I normally would use, and was able to crank it enough to make it perform pretty well. I do think this is in contrast to buckles, which don't perform great at the extreme end of their range for the lower boot. I like dialing in and out of tension. They do take many spins if you've pulled all the slack out. But either popping the button, or dialing it back gives you a reasonable amount of slack that shouldn't cause you any problems. With a proper shell fit, I don't think it will make much difference.</p>
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I don't think I will actively seek out BOA moving forward. I like having more control over separate zones of the boot. But, they aren't going to deter me at all. I can see how the middle of the pack skiers are attracted to them. I still don't think the hype and increased cost is warranted, but the sky isn't falling. If buckles went away (which it seems they might), it will probably be ok.</p>
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/$0.02</p>
Magic marker. BFDQuote:
Originally Posted by FloridaSnow
Great listen. Addresses a lot of the concerns and falsehoods. Evidently the Salomon double board has markings for both the lower and upper boas to make sure youre setting it the same everytime.
https://blisterreview.com/podcasts/g...WpcMhf8.RNLVVR
Got on the Cortex. It’s a decent boot. The upper cuff is super easy to get into. It doesn’t really fit me great, and it’s not my boot - so I couldn’t really mod it to fully send.
That said: lower boa is good, but hard to judge without a good shell/liner fit. I think this one will come down to personal preference. The liner wasn’t impressive. It didn’t feel like a 96 last, at least when compared to other brands.
Upper boa: This boot hasn’t sold me. I actually had a hard time getting it to feel right. I will often vary my top and bottom buckles depending on boot fit. This boot had too much pressure on my instep. And, in another boot I would leave the lower cuff buckle a hair looser to help accommodate this. Wasn’t really possible with this one.
If the shell fit me a little better out of the box, or if I had time to work on this more, maybe it could have been different.
My opinion hasn’t really changed. It’s fine. Some people will really dig it, others won’t. Boot model will probably be more of a determining factor than closure mechanism. But, I don’t see a reason for cuff boas after trying this boot. Perhaps Salomon will make the alpha 130 in a double boa. That boot fits me great right out of the box, and would be a good litmus test for me.
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How many days did you ski in them out of interest? But what you said is fully correct, Boa will not fix a fit which is not right for you. But if you have a boot which does fit well boa will improve that boot compared to buckles for most people (not everyone but most)Quote:
Originally Posted by Skip Dooley
Only one day. Not trying to be definitive on either the boot or boa as a concept (single or double). I wanted the boot to fit, as it feels quite solid, has a legit flex rating and doesn’t bother my heels as most do. I’m actually impressed that you guys built such a sender of a boot.Quote:
Originally Posted by tompietrowski
Just wanted to point out as someone who is skeptical that it’s not all bad from our new boa overlords..
If the Salomon S/Pro Alpha comes with a lower boa next year, I will buy it over the buckle version. While the narrower Alpha buckle boot fits me better, the Supra boa, while slightly roomy unbuckled, can actually be cinched down tighter for a better fit than the narrower alpha…
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Thanks! We are pretty stoked with how Cortex turned out and we certainly know it won't be the boot for many people. Lv is a niche in sales terms and cortex is a niche within that niche. I would say it's almost a sure thing you will get that dual boa lv Salomon next season thoughQuote:
Originally Posted by Skip Dooley
For BOA users (I haven't tried yet so no opinion) ,the concept of more even tension with less direct pressure points makes sense, but how does it handle the need for different tension levels. For example in my current boot I need the toe buckle done up significantly more than the instep buckle, which is barely tight due to a higher instep and a lower / flatter forefoot.
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this really isn't an issue with the way boa shell wraps. You get far more even pressure across the whole foot so the need for different settings doesn't really exist.Quote:
Originally Posted by Duffman
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Originally Posted by DigSki
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I disagree with the above answer. This is where boa falls short. It doesn't magically close everything evenly compared to how your foot fits in the boot. You don't have the ability to modulate tension in each area and if this is something you want, or need, in most boots, double boa may not be for you. <br />
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If the shell fits you perfectly in every dimension, it could be a very satisfying product. </p>
Guess I'm not seeing where athletes are getting on the boa hype train. Don't see many/any in freeride comps. Don't see racers using them. I'm sure they're great for riding around on snowmobiles and making pow turns though.
Objective data is also lacking. Thus far if you have a low volume foot boa doesn't seem like a great option. But there's also very limited options for LV boots with boa to begin with. Maybe time will tell, boot fitting and performance regarding the subject has always been tough, and I fear that boa boots are just gonna add another monkey wrench into the equation when it comes to a boot fitter getting people into the correct boot.
Consumers will always drive sales and decision making from companies. As has been said above, K2's decision to move in a big direction towards boa makes sense for them. However, I think there will always be an argument between what drives sales vs. actual performance. Salmon BBR, soul 7s; both represent trends in ski marketing that arguably made companies a good amount of money, but that doesn't mean they were actually what was best for skiers. BOA will remain to be seen.
Athletes can only use what is avaialble to them and so far we are the only brand to build a race performance lv boot with boa. Max Hitzig won the freeride world tour last season in them so performance really should not be in question. But every brand do things differently so some may stick to buckles like atomic have done with the Redster. It does not mean one is better than the other just different which I think is great for the industry. Have choice for consumers is always going to be the best.Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthMarkus
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Keep in mind that Lily Bradly just had a very decent run on the FWT in a pair of Dalbello Panterra 105 that were a size too big and they have a low volume foot with a 95mm width. Also I love Reckoners, but you can’t tell me those are the best ski for hard charging free riding. He made them work for sure.</p>
The argument with Max Hitzig isn’t really catching. Those guys can make everything work. Reminds me of an incident with my son who is an excellent skier doing comps in the junior FWT. At the end of a day he complained to me that one of his boots was feeling „funny“. I inspected the boot and it turned out that the rod of the walking mechanism was broken and he was basically riding the whole day with one boot in walking mode. I certainly didn’t notice any difference him skiing, doing his usual cliff drops, backys and threes. Different world.Quote:
Originally Posted by tompietrowski