Printable View
They don't really ice up. I like this better than the CAST system I used to have, cuz you can drop the heelpiece for longer walks. I use Shifts instead of these on my inbounds/sidecountry ski, since I don't do long walks with that setup. These are for my wife's one ski quiver, where dropping the extra weight gives her a boost on the up for longer tours.
Still using my setup and just did 3 days of touring on Teton Pass. Never had any icing. I trust the system so much that it will be my setup for two weeks traveling to Japan. I also carry this MSR dish brush which is really nice for cleaning snow off.
Attachment 436895
Interesting. Occasionally our demo bindings ice up at work (our demo fleet is stored outside for all intents and purposes) which made me think twice about this being a good idea. These would be going on my work skis which I very, very rarely need to tour in; I have other setups that are more ideal. I really just want the peace of mind to be able to get back up hill in an emergency if needed. Just can't quite convince myself to put true alpine bindings on because of that. I also don't really like Pivots (yeah sue me) and CAST is not cheap, so here I am rethinking this again.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lindahl
Oddly enough, I've had this setup in mind for a Japan trip as well lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by singlecross
Thanks for your input guys.
That makes sense. Most touring bindings will ice up outside (snow melts in the day, freezes overnight). Cast froze really bad on me once like that, had to slam them with my boots. I store my skis inside.Quote:
Originally Posted by mr walker
Valid point.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lindahl
I realize this is now an old thread, but that's how long it took to try this swappable toes idea. charlesj was not joking about wasting an absurd amount of time. Thanks to lindahl for the original concept, and to charlesj and muggydude for the detailed images and instructions on the swappable toes, and everyone else who pitched in to move this forward. One complicating factor is that anyone trying this will likely have different versions of all of the pieces, which may not mesh. In my case the tech toe piece had a completely different screw hole pattern than charlesj's, and I was using Attack 14s as the base with a different placement of the latch mechanism. So my only option was to try to install a small aluminum plate for mounting the 2 rear screws of the tech toe.Quote:
Originally Posted by f=ma
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/d/...gy33mDWNaHlswX
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/d/...8VOwHVGg7oYz-n
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/d/...C6w21Nc7WqgdBW
And here they are mounted up. On the Right, Uphill mode with No Heel Piece and Tech toe piece On the Left, Downhill mode
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/d/...df_D-VlDVVkuE3 https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/d/...NkpOqhSm_nqF3Y
The removable toe piece weighs in at 205g (90g for the tech toe/screws, 115g for the base/screws), and the total uphill weight with the plates, risers, toe piece and screws is about 485g. Could save even more weight by chopping off more of the plates, especially the toe plate, but keeping them as is for now for the adjustability.
Also, even with leaving a little extra of the toe plate forward of the mounting screws, the removable tech toe still needs to be positioned all the way forward on the track to allow the risers to contact the boot heel. This may be specific to my BSL though (313) and if so you could probably chop off more of the plate. As a side note, if anyone is interested in trying this project, a cheap way could be getting a pair of used rental skis from Lone Pine Gear Exchange that come with the base plates and bindings. The blue Factions on the right were like 300, and then all you need are the risers, tech toes, and a separate set of Attack toe pieces. Maiden voyage:
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/d/...fQ11xXssB0L5y9
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/d/...0mNaxE49L1eXYZ
Well done! Keep on testing/skiing. Spending a bunch of time on a cool idea can be worth it if one follows through. Due to some knee issues and not finishing 100% I never deployed mine. Addisj’s execution looks clean and secure. Those minimalist Voile pins could be ideal for this mod (depending on mount pattern). Lindahl’s CAST alternative is viable and relatively inexpensive. DIY and hacking solutions can be satisfying beyond a logical product purchase
For those waiting in the wings, my wife and I are still using this setup pretty regularly and it still works great.
Dude 4 years later here we are, Tyrolia developing such binding. https://i.redd.it/tndyit6ng1uc1.jpeg
Tyrolia isn’t developing anything, they just copy and claim innovation. Their new pin binding is just a copy of full featured u spring bindings already on the market, zero innovation.
Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
I think the OG design in this thread is awesome because who wants to tour with an alpine binding heel on their ski if they dont have to. Going to do my own version using inserts and demo Strive binding. Will post pictures of completed setup.
Well, if the demo version of it is available retail and it uses the same track as the Attack; that'd be quite the new product in the marketplace. Effectively a track based CAST system.Quote:
Originally Posted by MagnificentUnicorn
They probably read this thread and know about CAST. I wouldn’t call that innovation.Quote:
Originally Posted by doebedoe
Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
Bump for folks coming from Blister to check this out… send tech support to fix the photo links!Oh, and Tyrolia… make demo tracks available for purchase as a separate, independent item.
Love that Tyrolia finally wised up and essentially stole this idea. Great work !
They've only copied the idea for the toes, which isn't that different from CAST, Duke PT, etc.
The real benefit of these DIY versions is the option to also remove the heel for longer tours / expeditions.
Maybe they'll get to it next year?...
You could always use a demo attack heel, i wonder if the tech toe will be available as a separate item (doubt it) and if it fits on standard attack demo tracks. Also cool that you can ski down with tech toe and alpine heel in a pinch, i think the only hybrid that allows that?Quote:
Originally Posted by addisj
Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duffman
I'd love if Salomon did it with the Strive demo. They won't because they want to sell more Shifts, but I think it would be great.
I've been skiing it some and I think the Strive is the best demo platform on the market right now...and it is great for this:
1. Low weight.
2. Skis pretty well.
3. Low stack height (same as non-demo)
4. No toe height adjustment needed.
A riser solution and a tech toe on a plate would great here. Downside is no AT sole support, but if you're running a setup like this there's pretty good odds you're using a heavier walk mode boot that has gripwalk soles anyways.
I think I’ll likely pick up a set of these when they’re available, solely to use the toe price. Holding/assuming they work with current demo tracks
The only thing I dislike about my frankentour setup is the toe piece can have a lot of slop/rotation when skiining up.
Definitely a bit miss that they didn’t make the heel removable too, there really aren’t downsides. That was the whole point, Lindahl’s setup was ~500g on the up, and full alpine on the down. Sliding a heel on and off when you also have to do the toe no matter what really doesn’t add any additional hassle
Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
I stand corrected.Quote:
They've only copied the idea for the toes, which isn't that different from CAST, Duke PT, etc.
The real benefit of these DIY versions is the option to also remove the heel for longer tours / expeditions.
Maybe they'll get to it next year?...
From a comment by Blister Reviewer Mark Danielson:
It’s difficult to see in the images above, but the Attack Hybrid 14 MN/PT uses a heel track in addition to its toe track. Its heel track is very, very similar to that of the Attack 14 MN Demo, but it has a different screw pattern, has a shorter range of adjustment for forward pressure (~40 mm instead of ~60 mm), and has a stopper at the front of the track, so that the sliding pieces must enter and exit from the rear.
Although the Hybrid’s sliding brake with riser and locking arms is obviously a brand new part, the sliding heel piece seems identical to that of the Attack 14 MN Demo. And just like the Demo’s heel piece, the Hybrid’s heel piece has that spring-loaded finger tab, which allows the heel piece to be removed and installed easily without any tools – as long as it’s not iced up too much.
The Attack Hybrid 14 MN/PT is *not* designed to be used uphill or downhill with the heel piece removed, but given how easy it is to remove and install, I suspect some tinkerers and do-it-yourselfers out there might try their own modifications to remove the heel piece for the ascent. We’ll see. (414 g per heel piece, 227 g per brake with riser)
Ok so I have used the OG setup created by lindahl for about a season now. Thoughts:
- Icing hasn't been too bad of an issue...sometimes it can be hard to move the tabs to pull the toe or heel off, but the tracks icing hasnt been as bad as I thought it could be. I would still be wary of leaving my skis outside of a hut or whilst camping. Id bring toes and heels inside to avoid freezing up.
- Skinning position doesnt make too much of a difference - depending on the ski. Will be trying with more progressively mounted skis to see how that goes
- Stack height is decent. As in about 1cm higher than Pivots. You may notice it and hate it, especially on wider skis
- You need a decent bit of space in your pack for the bits and pieces, but transitions are fairly efficient
This is a rad concept, and being able to remove the heel of a hybrid binding for the up is where things will go next. For me, I'll keep tinkering and comparing. I'm not sure I need a full alpine binding out of bounds, but also this setup is like a cheat code. 300g per ski on the way up with nothing I dont want for the climb, full safety and power transfer on the way down.
Oh, and my Strive attempt didnt fly. Toe geomoetry etc.
Better news for sure. May be possible to attach separate split board risers like the frankentour bindings. I wonder if the newheel will slide on existing attack2 demo heel tracks
Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
Blister review of Tyrolia's solution:
https://blisterreview.com/at-binding...uring-bindings
I’m confused. So they just copied your system but kinda missed the whole point? As mentioned, the part that set this system apart was that the up mode was 300g
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
According to the article comments the heel peace can slide off easily without tools, so it’s likely you can remove it on the way up still, maybe with a little tinkering. Depends how the brakes and riser setup works/attaches