G3 ION tech binding

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Originally Posted by Knut

My bad, I confused PIN delta with ramp angle (with the latter being the only valuable information for the user, imo)





Delta of the boot soles front-to-heel: yes!

Delta of the pins: no!
(the toe pins are considerably lower in the boot than the heel pins. A zero pin delta would result in a negative sole ramp. --Which would probably still result in a positive foot ramp, given that most ski boots have a considerable sole ramp angle in the inner sole themselves. But that's alright and what we generally want.)

A pin delta of around 10 mm is in my eyes optimal and results in just a minimal sole ramp like most alpine binders have it. The beast with 8 mm pin delta results basically in a flat shoe position on the ski.

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I agree that ramp angle is the valuable information but pin delta is the only thing you can measure without bringing a whole lot of other factors into play. Ramp angle is:

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Ski thickness toe + toe pin height + "front boot inserts" (inserts location, bootboard, liner etc)
-
Ski thickness heel + heel pin height + "boot heel inserts" (inserts location, bootboard, liner etc)
=
Ramp angle

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Since ski thickness and boots are different I like the concept of pin delta as it gives me a possibility to compare for my gear.

As toe and heel insert hight are fairly standard (albeit not an ISO standard unfortunately), I think it's fair to use ramp delta, as it can be calculated by pin height.
Plus it allows a direct comparison with alpine and frame bindings.

Of course there are a few boots that vary. But weird variations do exist also for Alpine bindings (actually, the most odd candidates are generally performance/race touring boots in my experience) and it's more important to know which boots are odd. Because that knowledge is anyway needed, regardless whether pin height or binding ramp delta is being used. And it allows to compare with other binding systems.

Binding ramp delta is also independent of ski or boot.

Real ramp angle between the ground and your foot is a different thing, though and of course depends on the whole setup.
Ramp angle is most sensitive to BSL changes. Of course different types of boots with their foot bed ramp angles play a big role, too.
But I'd neglect ski thickness entirely. I don't know a single ski that differs significantly in thickness over the stretch where the binding will be mounted.

Ramp delta is the number that allows best cross-binder comparison. Period.

Ions for $399 at Campsaver using code blizzard20... Just picked up a pair.

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Originally Posted by SWskier

Ions for $399 at Campsaver using code blizzard20... Just picked up a pair.

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Thanks, just ordered a pair. $400 shipped.

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Originally Posted by SWskier

Ions for $399 at Campsaver using code blizzard20... Just picked up a pair.

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Whoa, not bad. This is making my credit card hurt.

After ordering the IONs I had some time to kill while my daughter was at dance class and I went to the shop next door to check out the ION again. They are really nice when put next to Radical ST/FT, I don't really see any downside to these bindings over comparable offerings from Dynafit. Very easy to operate. I can't wait to try them on snow, I'm putting them on my older pair of Lhasa Pows.

Just saw a pair of ions mounted. One worked ok, the other one wouldn't stay open in the toe?

Maybe a bit early in the product development process?

Just mounted some today on Koomback 104's. Will report back after some days on em.

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Originally Posted by Stowelen

Just mounted some today on Koomback 104's. Will report back after some days on em.

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I'm sure Doug Koombs would approve.

:nonono2:

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Originally Posted by PNWbrit

I'm sure Doug Koombs would approve.

:nonono2:

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Did he know Shane McKonkey?

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Originally Posted by dark_star

Did he know Shane McKonkey?

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yz2LaJOVAiA

G3 Ions for $350

Posted this PSA in gearswap as well

"Lowest price I have seen on these bindings. It takes a little legwork, but it is worth it.
1. Use active junky to get an extra 13% off sale price
2. Go to backcountry and get your bindings. BOOM! Done!

If any of you need help with active junky, it is pretty easy. Sign up here: http://www.activejunky.com/invite/15686/matt-allen (Disclosure, this has my referral code... if you don't want to use it just go to the main site and sign up)

Clear cookies and cache and browser history. (I use ccleaner... free software). Open your browser. Go directly to active junky and sign in. Click the backcountry link... then buy your stuff without opening any other windows off the backcountry site. This ensures that you will get your extra 13% off after you make your purchase in the form of papyal... the trick is you have to wait a bit for them to pay you. This is just in case you decide to return the items etc. But hey... money is money right?"

Worked like a top. Thanks for the heads up.

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Originally Posted by ARpowhound

Worked like a top. Thanks for the heads up.

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No problem. I was surprised to see them included in the sale.

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Originally Posted by Knut

A pin delta of around 10 mm is in my eyes optimal and results in just a minimal sole ramp like most alpine binders have it. The beast with 8 mm pin delta results basically in a flat shoe position on the ski.

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Agree, which is why I wrote "a pin delta of 10-11 mm feels about 'neutral' and similar to the mild ramp of a typical alpine setup. so I think the g3 Ion pin delta of 11 mm probably support their claim of "3 degrees (or 'neutral'), matches ski boot mfgers intended angle". " in my post above.

I still don't know what the approx height in mm from the topsheet to the top of the tallest Ion heel elevator is. Alpinord, I had already referred to that product spec but it just says 14 degrees High Lift...G3 forgot to mention what boot BSL that angle corresponds to so it's a somewhat meaningless number. All I'm looking for is a qualitative comparison between Dynafit and Ion in the max elevator position.

^^^ Need that lift for the skin up Granlibakken? :D

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Originally Posted by frorider

Agree, which is why I wrote "a pin delta of 10-11 mm feels about 'neutral' and similar to the mild ramp of a typical alpine setup. so I think the g3 Ion pin delta of 11 mm probably support their claim of "3 degrees (or 'neutral'), matches ski boot mfgers intended angle". " in my post above.

I still don't know what the approx height in mm from the topsheet to the top of the tallest Ion heel elevator is. Alpinord, I had already referred to that product spec but it just says 14 degrees High Lift...G3 forgot to mention what boot BSL that angle corresponds to so it's a somewhat meaningless number. All I'm looking for is a qualitative comparison between Dynafit and Ion in the max elevator position.

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Now that I have a mounted pair:
Topsheet to top of ION heel elevator=84-85mm
Toe pins are at 41mm

https://www.tetongravity.com/images/...tor__forum.jpg

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Originally Posted by LightRanger

^^^ Need that lift for the skin up Granlibakken? :D

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totally. the uptracks there are steep. lulz.

OK so G3 emailed me and said the distance from top of 'tall' elevator to ski topsheet is about 80 mm (my vertical STs are about 84 mm). With a 322 BSL boot, and the 5 mm shim under the toepiece that many of us prefer, the vertical ST has a boot angle of about 13 degrees. Since we don't know the BSL of the boot G3 used to reach that '14 degree' spec, let's assume it's shorter than my big feet...and since 80 mm is less than 84, that seems like a consistent assumption...so apparently the Ion tall elevator is not quite as tall as the Vertical's. If I get some Ions, I guess I'll have to make some shims to attach to the elevators.

Skied mine for the first time today in that awesome ice crust at vail and never had any issues.

Can't wait to get to and tour with them.

Mounted mine this am, the SlideWright template is perfect. I'll get out and ski them this afternoon or tomorrow for sure. These are really refined looking and function bindings to my eye. I really think G3 took their time with these. Even the little cover over the brake springs is well thought out, a place that often sees icing if you're using brakes with Dynafits. I guess that's not an issue if you don't use brakes but it's nice.

how does the top plate of the heel piece attach to the main body, from picts' it looks like the screws come up from the bottom and thread into the metal top plate which should be a better idea than threading into plastic like dyanfit and plum especialy with the stresses the flippy heal lifters put on that top piece ?

Are you blessing the template as confirmed, Aaron? Glad it worked.

Here's a time lapse on cutting and splicing for various BSL:

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=585617088204778

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Originally Posted by XXX-er

how does the top plate of the heel piece attach to the main body, from picts' it looks like the screws come up from the bottom and thread into the metal top plate which should be a better idea than threading into plastic like dyanfit and plum especialy with the stresses the flippy heal lifters put on that top piece ?

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Yes as described. Four screws on the corners and two additional near the heel pins, boot side. I dunno if the latter come all the way up to the top piece though

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Originally Posted by Alpinord

Are you blessing the template as confirmed, Aaron? Glad it worked.

Here's a time lapse on cutting and splicing for various BSL:

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=585617088204778

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Yes, it worked perfectly with the BSL gradations.

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Originally Posted by AaronWright

Yes, it worked perfectly with the BSL gradations.

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Cool. Thanks. I got the toe & heel to hole dimensions from davieboot. With a G3 ION Jigarex plates due in the next week or so, I'll also double check the template relative to the plates. For my Maestrales RS's, I had a discrepancy between stamped BSL and horizontally measured BSL, which the Jigarex plates are relative too.