Fear and Loathing, a Rat Flu Odyssey

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Originally Posted by Viva

[…]Our press and politicians are pushing this, often with no real understanding of the situation (But "fuck it", everyone wants to appear as if they understand and are in control). Then the masses with no real understanding, e.g., most of the posters in this thread, use that information, regardless of its veracity, to craft reactions in an uninformed manner.

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Originally Posted by Viva

The important facts are simple to understand- while this is a highly contagious virus, it is very easy to defeat, both innately (in the vast majority of folks) and therapeutically.

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Originally Posted by Viva

I disagree. We have nearly twenty years of research on the first SARS-Corona virus. We know a great deal about that virus, and were conducting vaccine studies before the epidemic went bye-bye and government funding (and the market) dried up. SARS-CoV-1 and SARS-Cov-2 are closely related, giving us a wealth of existing learnings and a hudge step up. We know that most folks will not be significantly affected by it. We know it's cell surface target and understand how to neutralize it. We know that it's not a difficult agent to combat. That there are over seventy candidate vaccines demonstrates how much we know about this bugger. Therapeutics for infected people I don't know so much about.

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I wish I could share your confidence about how easily SARS CoV 2 will be defeated. I'm hoping you're right. My personal perspective is far more cautious than you own, Dr. Pangloss. But hey, what do I know. I’m sure I have no real understanding of the situation as just another one of the uninformed posters in this thread. I’m sure you have some special insight above and beyond even the BioRxiv preprints, to the point of knowing exactly which vaccines will work and which ones won't.

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Originally Posted by old goat

And of course it's unfair of me to generalize. There are plenty of docs who are not afraid to tell the truth. And then there's the other extreme--being too blunt about it. It can be a fine line between being too timid and too blunt in giving bad news. I was probably on the too blunt side.

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Well yeah, some of your earlier points about oncologists could be just as easy to generalize in re: vascular surgeons as far as overtreating/practicing conflict-of-interest medicine. As you well know the medical community is like any other, with both good and bad practitioners. I think we would both agree it needs plenty of shaking up, at least here in the US, in order to better serve patients. And yes, that includes practitioners better learning how to walk that fine line in discussing risks and benefits of any intervention.

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Originally Posted by Ottime

Any one have thoughts on the kids in NYC who recovered from COVID but are now showing symptoms of Kawasaki?

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Originally Posted by Ottime

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wsj.com/amp/articles/new-york-city-sees-cases-of-rare-syndrome-possibly-tied-to-covid-19-in-15-children-11588698902
Story is only a day old, but wanted to hear what our professional porn searcher thinks about it. He seems to have a handle on this whole thing.

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My pr0n search-fu is far inferior to that of the master, but that won’t stop me from giving my worthless $.02 on the matter. It isn’t Kawasaki - (a rare pediatric syndrome characterized by fever, eye redness, mouth sores, skin rash, redness/puffiness of fingers/toes, lymph node swelling, joint pain, heart and kidney damage, felt to be autoimmune-mediated) - it just looks a lot like it, and is also likely mediated by an autoimmune mechanism. I’ve been banging the drum a lot in my previous posts on how I think endstage SARS CoV 2 has a lot in common with another rare autoimmune syndrome associated with widespread microclotting called catastrophic antiphospholipid syndrome (CAPS), and again, I think this Kawasaki-like syndrome has similar hallmarks. I’ve been keeping an eye out for other related studies, and one recently came out regarding elevated levels of a blood protein called soluble urokinase plasminogen activator receptor (suPAR) predicting severity of disease in SARS CoV 2 ICU patients - its ligand, urokinase plasminogen activator (uPA) is a key component of the body’s exquisitely modulated clotting mechanism. I’m gonna guess that one of the surface antigens on SARS CoV 2 crossreacts with a phospholipid binding protein that includes uPA as part of its functional pathway. Something for the likes of Mofro to think about, in his vaccine design schemes.

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Originally Posted by Harry

TGR’s resident bleach-drinker has spoken.

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LULZ :FIREdevil

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Originally Posted by Diamond Joe

Haven't been keeping up with this thread, but someone just sent me this video, food for thought. (YouTube keeps taking it down, hopefully this one will stay up)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-s15mh2-ncE
I really don't know who to believe any more.

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believe your goverment and not get confused by the opposition..... sounds wrong : )


I was wondering where are all the conspiracy videos.
They needeed time to make them..... finaly this thread gets some good entertainment it was missing. Keep posting them!

Has this article about children as vectors been shared yet? It’s being used to support opening schools. Thoughts and feelings? I don’t have time to read and digest right now... working a 12+ hr day.

Thx

https://www.rivm.nl/en/novel-coronav...n-and-covid-19

One concern I have about the study ^^^ (other than not apparently being peer-reviewed) is this:

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Around 40 GP practices in the Netherlands register the number of patients visiting the practice with flu-like complaints, through the NIVEL testing stations. A culture from the nose and throat is taken from some of these patients, which is examined in the laboratory to detect viruses, such as COVID-19. In total, 6.5% of them turned out to be infected. This percentage was highest in week 14 with 30%. In the last weeks, the percentage was about 15-20%. No infection was found in the patients under 20 years of age who were tested. This confirms the current understanding that children are less likely to be infected and become ill than adults.

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The pattern that appears to have been reasonably well established is that for whatever reason, children do not have the same degree of symptomatology relative to adults. The authors are using uncontrolled retrospective epidemiological data that can skew the population of tested children, by confining the study to only those that come to the GP office with flu-like complaints. I'm not sure how this might affect their data, but their conclusion that "children are less likely to be infected" is not the same as "children may be infected, but remain asymptomatic", which is more in line with what we appear to be seeing thus far.

^^ Yeah, the concern with kids is that they're sloppy about hygiene among each other, and then sloppy about hygiene when they get home. If it's spreading at my kid's school, there's no doubt that it's going to be on every surface that my kid touches in our house. More info is needed about the spreading potential from asymptomatic youngsters, and of course, always, more testing, before we can more than guess about the potential downside of getting kids back together in large numbers on a daily basis. (Not that I don't want that to happen; damn kid at home all the time isn't easy sledding, for us or for the kid.)

Utah business says "Covid, eh, whatever", becomes super-spreader.

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The company wasn’t identified in a Monday notice from the Utah County Commission, which said that contact tracing had found that 68 cases within the county could be linked back to just two businesses.

Both required employees with a confirmed coronavirus diagnosis to come into work, and also told other staffers who were exposed to the virus at work not to quarantine themselves. Consequently, the outbreak spread, and 48 percent of the workers at one company were infected.

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Huh! Who could have guessed that requiring people sick with a super contagious virus to come in to work would result in the whole office getting exposed?

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Originally Posted by Buster Highmen

How localized is your density?

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More than few posters in this thread have a localized density just above their shoulders.

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Originally Posted by Dantheman

Right? FFS....



Of course that happened in Utah County.

It's amazing to see the meat packing plant closures happening despite social distancing efforts, and the Dheli-types still think the economy would be cruising along just fine in a "take it on the chin/let people decide their own risk tolerance" scenario. I've said this in various ways multiple times already, but the economy would be so much more fucked in Dheli's ideal world. What if, instead of a couple isolated plants being shut down due to widespread outbreaks among workers, half of them or more all went down at once? Or what about distribution? The average trucker has multiple chronic health conditions, 5-10% of them could die in two months and another 10-20% could survive following extensive hospitalization only to emerge permanently disabled. At any given time over a period of 2-3 months easily 20-30% of truckers could be dying, hospitalized, or simply too sick to drive. Forget temporary toilet paper stocking issues, we'd be facing the potential collapse of the entire distribution system that provides us with food and basic goods. It's a terrifying prospect.

As for the non-essential sectors of the economy, the idea that people would still be going to bars and restaurants, attending sporting events, flying on airplanes, etc. while 20,000 people are dying per day and food is being rationed (see above) is beyond laughable.



Yeah, that's scary. Even the binary scenario illuminates how terrible people are at assessing low-probability/high-consequence risk. Sure, 80% of COVID deaths are 65 and older. Flip that around and 1-in-5 deaths are 25-64. If you walked up to a carnival ride and the toothless carnie running it told you that only 1-in-5 people your age die riding it, would you really get on that ride? Fuck no you wouldn't.



Deebs is a troll who just shitposts to entertain himself. He exclusively posts in PoliAss and PoliAss-adjacent threads like this one. Don't waste your time.

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you let toothless carnies make ANY of yur life decisions...…………..?
fuck no I don't .
evarz

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Originally Posted by LeeLau

Nope. You're a Nazi

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Hey now... go easy on ski cougar he's not all bad. I mean he built the Autobahn 'n stuff.

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Originally Posted by LeeLau

Nope. You're a Nazi

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Heh. Kinda funny that Skicougs just has to pop out of the woodwork somewhere to uber trigger you. I can just picture some neckbeard screaming Reeeeee! Nazi! While spittle flies from your mouth and covers your monitor and your entire face turns red.

I'm not a big fan of the cougs, but fully support his continued posting so we can watch your reactions and laugh.

Some people doubt that the political spectrum is circular, so it's nice to see the pro-union camp greet the Nazis from time to time. Ideally by shaking unwashed hands, but you can't have everything.

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Originally Posted by Core Shot

Excellent work Karen.

My point was that the fooltube shouldn’t ban it. Bans are for copyright material only.

It would be more helpful to have a disclaimer. Rather than making it forbidden fruit.
Believe it or not. There are other video platforms in existence.

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I said this the other day about the wacky Drs is Cali. Censor all misinformation or dont at all. It sends a bad message.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using TGR Forums mobile app

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Originally Posted by jgb@etree

Heh. Kinda funny that Skicougs just has to pop out of the woodwork somewhere to uber trigger you. I can just picture some neckbeard screaming Reeeeee! Nazi! While spittle flies from your mouth and covers your monitor and your entire face turns red.

I'm not a big fan of the cougs, but fully support his continued posting so we can watch your reactions and laugh.

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I think you're projecting a bit. No unnecessary capitalizations or misspellings, so doubtful he's yelling.
Also, didn't skicougar call for a genocide on Muslims? That sounds pretty nazi-ish (nazist?).

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Originally Posted by schuss

Also, didn't skicougar call for a genocide on Muslims? That sounds pretty nazi-ish (nazist?).

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Wait, I thought it was the Muslims who wanted to kill the Jews?

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Originally Posted by schuss

I think you're projecting a bit. No unnecessary capitalizations or misspellings, so doubtful he's yelling.
Also, didn't skicougar call for a genocide on Muslims? That sounds pretty nazi-ish (nazist?).

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Projecting? I'm not sure you know what that word means as I am just making an observation.

All I see is that every time skougs posts in this thread LeeLau responds "Reeee Nazi". I can't claim to be familiar with all of scougs posts, but I'm somewhat doubtful that he has identified as a Nazi or expressed support for Nazi beliefs, but perhaps I am wrong. You may be unaware, but there are may people who have direct experience with actual Nazi's and the associated horror they wrought. Many take offense when people try to use the Nazi label to shout down people they disagree with and can not otherwise refute what is being stated. Kinda like how LeeLau is. And you too.

Fuck off with the Nazi bullshit. If you disagree with someone, use your words like a big boy and refute their assertions. Not only is calling people a Nazi just because you disagree with what you are saying offensive to millions who suffered under Nazi rule, it also shows that you are unable to articulate an effective rebuttal and have resorted to pre-school level name calling.

jgbtree triggered by calling stupid racist bullshit evils stupid racist bullshit evils. Skcougs horseshit doesn’t merit the dignity of a serious reply.

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Originally Posted by jgb@etree

Fuck off with the Nazi bullshit. If you disagree with someone, use your words like a big boy and refute their assertions. Not only is calling people a Nazi just because you disagree with what you are saying offensive to millions who suffered under Nazi rule, it also shows that you are unable to articulate an effective rebuttal and have resorted to pre-school level name calling.

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So wait, you mean the typical left reaction? Got it....and agree. rarely do I find debate with someone from the left fruitful. Post your point of view, they disagree, and it goes to name calling quickly. No cogent argument, just "trumpeter". Its quite amusing actually.

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Originally Posted by MultiVerse

In a scenario with no one living within a mile the issue isn't proximity, it's someone coming into contact with an infected person and then spreading it at home. In rural areas it's going to church or a social function or some other prolonged contact and then bringing it home.

Social distancing is a good rule of thumb but strategic reduction of contact is what really matters.

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All I'm getting at is that the definition of density is at best vague.

In fact, the phrase 'momentary proximity' describes what the virus needs to spread and that can happen in rural areas. NYC also has that in spades be it on the sidewalk, in the grocery stores or in homes.

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Originally Posted by Skidog

So wait, you mean the typical left reaction? Got it....and agree. rarely do I find debate with someone from the left fruitful. Post your point of view, they disagree, and it goes to name calling quickly. No cogent argument, just "trumpeter". Its quite amusing actually.

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Back in the day Europeans would say "it can't be done" and Americans would just go and do it. Now it's about how Americans like SkiCougar say stuff like "pandemic mitigation can't be done" and the Asians just go and do it.

Instead of a a rational national discussion about the strategies and the investments needed to reopen the economy it's armed right wing protestors against the communists making them wear a mask. If only we were attacked by a virus that was vulnerable to whataboutism the people who view the world in terms of "the right" and "the left" would be heroes.

Nice high horse you've got there. I'm sure you've never used terms like spelling Nazi or grammar Nazi etc. Out of respect.
Also LOL on the broad brush left stuff. I'm going to leave the political pissing match out of this as I'm sure I'll be called a communist or socialist for no reason soon.

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Originally Posted by Buster Highmen

All I'm getting at is that the definition of density is at best vague.

In fact, the phrase 'momentary proximity' describes what the virus needs to spread and that can happen in rural areas. NYC also has that in spades be it on the sidewalk, in the grocery stores or in homes.

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There are a lot of unknowns but the evidence suggests drawing the opposite conclusions. It's not density and momentary proximity per se, instead it's prolonged contact indoors. Dosage appears to matter. It's sitting in a restaurant or an office building or a meat packing plant or a nursing home and then becoming infected after several minutes of exposure to expectorated droplets. There are other transmission routes too, like fomites, but droplets spread indoors appear to be the primary mechanism.

The point being some people have assumed NYC is unique. In fact, as NYC and other cities have seen their numbers decline smaller communities have seen their numbers increase, offsetting those decreases.

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Originally Posted by MultiVerse

Now it's about how Americans like SkiCougar say stuff like "pandemic mitigation can't be done"

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I haven't heard him say that. More like "what pandemic?"

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Originally Posted by dunfree

jgbtree triggered by calling stupid racist bullshit evils stupid racist bullshit evils. jgbtree horseshit doesn’t merit the dignity of a serious reply.

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FIFY

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Originally Posted by schuss

Nice high horse you've got there. I'm sure you've never used terms like spelling Nazi or grammar Nazi etc. Out of respect.
Also LOL on the broad brush left stuff. I'm going to leave the political pissing match out of this as I'm sure I'll be called a communist or socialist for no reason soon.

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You have a point, soup nazi sounds better than soup facist.

Seems like you boys are carrying over some stuff that happened in the PolyAss forum. Perhaps you guys can take it back over there?

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Originally Posted by MultiVerse

There are a lot of unknowns but the evidence suggests drawing the opposite conclusions. It's not density and momentary proximity per se, instead it's prolonged contact indoors. Dosage appears to matter. It's sitting in a restaurant or an office building or a meat packing plant or a nursing home and then becoming infected after several minutes of exposure to expectorated droplets. There are other transmission routes too, like fomites, but droplets spread indoors appear to be the primary mechanism.

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So, 'several minutes' is distinct from momentary? What about proximity?

It should not be a surprise that NYC provides a wide panoply of options for exposure of the appropriate time frame for infection. Public transit is not the only one. A second of passing through infected droplets on a sidewalk is enough as well, not to mention those mists floating through store or office HVAC systems.

The point is that spinning Cuomos surprise to extrapolate that social distancing and staying home doesn't work is the worst sort of fantasy.

C'mon motherfucker, let's fight.