4FRNT Renegade ~ Hand built in SLC.

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Originally Posted by North

I used a Raven + Ren for all of my touring last season, except for one dumb day of sidestepping down steep talus.

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Haha, I was a bit skeptical of your Ren-to-Raven touring ratio, but 31 touring days later, 25 of them have been on the Renegade…

Not that many deep days, but it seems to work well in the heavily faceted thin base we've had this season. They work surprisingly well in some dust on breakable crust situations too.

The hookiness I mentioned earlier seems to have been caused by cupped bases from the factory. Took them for a grind and they're a different ski now.

Took the Ravens out for one tour before christmas and they felt so light and a bit flimsy. Might take a few tours to adjust myself back to the smaller ski when it's time for longer tours.

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Originally Posted by SnowMachine

That's what I was thinking. What binding? I feel like it would be the perfect Shift ski. I'm hoping the new Shift V2 will retain the light-ish weight, but fix the pre-release shortcoming. The PT16 feels heavy for a lighter ski, but I'm totally happy with them on the Rens.

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I have Vipecs on my Ravens, I’ve considered putting some STH on them and getting a new pair with 4lock for touring


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Just spent the day on my 2013 Owls (HALS) 186. 11 years old and I still can't think of a goddamn thing to make them better. So frictionless and effortless. No warping. Perfect reverse camber profile. Why they changed it is beyond me, but I can only imagine because new is better. Which is hard as all goddamn hell to imagine.

All that said, all these skis see is fresh snow. So, there's that. I live in Japan and have my local resort dialed. I know when I'll be spending a day bell-to-bell on fresh lines in the forest... often if not usually in a blizzard.

Owl Ren has got to be the best pow ski of all time. Yet there are people on this board that say the ON3P Billygoat from ~2016 is even better. It's hard to wrap my head around anything being easier than what is already so easy and effortless.

What do I wanna ski to compliment this gem?
HL FL113, FR110/R110, ON3P BG, Cease & Desist, Quixote, Protest, GPO. Kinda want an MPro 108, but would rather go boutique/niche because I think I'm that kind of skier-- Hard to satisfy with mass-produced designs.

Oh, and -- Hold My Dick. Because it was one of those days.

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Originally Posted by gaijin

Just spent the day on my 2013 Owls (HALS) 186. 11 years old and I still can't think of a goddamn thing to make them better. So frictionless and effortless. No warping. Perfect reverse camber profile. Why they changed it is beyond me, but I can only imagine because new is better. Which is hard as all goddamn hell to imagine.

All that said, all these skis see is fresh snow. So, there's that. I live in Japan and have my local resort dialed. I know when I'll be spending a day bell-to-bell on fresh lines in the forest... often if not usually in a blizzard.

Owl Ren has got to be the best pow ski of all time. Yet there are people on this board that say the ON3P Billygoat from ~2016 is even better. It's hard to wrap my head around anything being easier than what is already so easy and effortless.

What do I wanna ski to compliment this gem?
HL FL113, FR110/R110, ON3P BG, Cease & Desist, Quixote, Protest, GPO. Kinda want an MPro 108, but would rather go boutique/niche because I think I'm that kind of skier-- Hard to satisfy with mass-produced designs.

Oh, and -- Hold My Dick. Because it was one of those days.

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Dude, I want to bring my Rens and come visit you. Japan looks so cool!!

HL FR110 is on my "buy soon" list. If it has that drifty, turny feel in a more damp package, count me in for it as a DD.

I think the new Ren is darned good, but then I've never skied the old one. It's a ski that makes you ski differently. I can't wait for more days on it.

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Originally Posted by gaijin

Just spent the day on my 2013 Owls (HALS) 186. 11 years old and I still can't think of a goddamn thing to make them better. So frictionless and effortless. No warping. Perfect reverse camber profile. Why they changed it is beyond me, but I can only imagine because new is better. Which is hard as all goddamn hell to imagine.

All that said, all these skis see is fresh snow. So, there's that. I live in Japan and have my local resort dialed. I know when I'll be spending a day bell-to-bell on fresh lines in the forest... often if not usually in a blizzard.

Owl Ren has got to be the best pow ski of all time. Yet there are people on this board that say the ON3P Billygoat from ~2016 is even better. It's hard to wrap my head around anything being easier than what is already so easy and effortless.

What do I wanna ski to compliment this gem?
HL FL113, FR110/R110, ON3P BG, Cease & Desist, Quixote, Protest, GPO. Kinda want an MPro 108, but would rather go boutique/niche because I think I'm that kind of skier-- Hard to satisfy with mass-produced designs.

Oh, and -- Hold My Dick. Because it was one of those days.

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R110 will probably be your best choice.

The new ski isn’t as good as the old one, it’s easier to ski and floats more at lower speeds, but the OG is the king. It has frictionless acceleration like no other ski. The BG is better at chop skiing and heavy schmoo, but the ren is still king.

Took these puppies out today for the first time this season. Got about 15" of medium density pow in about 8 hours this morning. Challenging conditions for some, but the Renegades made it effortless, both when fresh and in the chop. They're not the same caliber as the Owls, but damn they really do take the skiing to the POW dimension!

*gawdammit, sideways pic,,,don't know how to fix, sorry

Attachment 486972

I took out my 196 Renegades today , I’ve never skied them since I bought them late last winter. I should have skied them earlier this season on soft snow days. Incredibly fun. Deep wind buff and cream cheese. They’re really effortless turning but are quite damp for their weight. Get them on edge and they rail soft groomers. I’m really surprised how versatile and accessible these are. They’re the green and white graphic ones.


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https://i.ytimg.com/vi/tUa1EgjCIbM/mqdefault.jpg

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Originally Posted by MagnificentUnicorn

I took out my 196 Renegades today , I’ve never skied them since I bought them late last winter. I should have skied them earlier this season on soft snow days. Incredibly fun. Deep wind buff and cream cheese. They’re really effortless turning but are quite damp for their weight. Get them on edge and they rail soft groomers. I’m really surprised how versatile and accessible these are. They’re the green and white graphic ones.


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One of my great regrets in life is selling my 196 owls.

Now I’m obsessed with getting the 195 Hoji of the same vintage, red and white. I have the 190 blue and white Ravens


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I had those in a 187 (red), and the older ones (blue).

The red ones were the first lighter layup. The hojis of this era don't match the raven, ren rocker profile as Elan interpreted reflect tech more literally and they are TOO rockered. They are super easy to swivel, but lots of wheely action. I sold them to an advanced level friend and it brought his skiing to the next level. Still has a solid flex though.

I just got the updated version, and they are better. Like the ravens and the rens, they have a more mellow RC under foot, then tip and tail splay. Old hojis are like a rocking chair.


Forgive the dorky videos, but you can see their style a bit better:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIjb0aYk2fk

This was done while testing the TLT8, so they worked even with a light boot. (Skiing starts about halfway in, to skip the artsy bullshit)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=49mbBWXTDLI

man... that first video looks so fun. cool zone.

yeah I had the white/red hojis, and still have the white/blue 190 ravens + white/green & black/green 196 renegades
I agree that the Hojis were a totally different ski at that time. better for super low-angle mellow fun, but not as good as the Ren/Raven anywhere else.

I haven't been on the newer models, since mine are all still alive & well. But considering a new Hoji as a pin-binding touring option with lighter boots next season. I'm kinda torn though since I'm not sure I'll be gaining much vs my existing skis... other than a less Swiss-cheese mounting situation.

The new hojis just fill the spot of "I'm always taking it out if it's soft" touring. Basically all the time, cuz they handle crust really well, they don't weight much more than the OG raven (wood/black), and 4lock is the best thing to happen to touring gear in the last 5 years. The hojis are the fattest ski that still fits in perfectly into euro skin tracks, cuz the tips aren't fat.

I've got them mounted with light bindings: Rad Toe, FR14 heel. No brake, no adjustment track style. Right at the weight I stop noticing.

It's nice to be able to pop off the tails on the new ones. I've been skiing camber with lifts, but the Hoji might be the best all around touring ski ever made. Red version was close, but with less rocker, it's been determined!

This is good info. I’m negotiating with blurred for some 195 Hojis. They have a raptor graphic. Are they more in line with Raven/Renegade?


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I'm not really sure about what graphics came after the Reds. But they were more like the new Rens. Reds and after with sizes 187 and 195 are the lighter layup. 1950g in 187. Blue mountain/Tent, Black sea/boat, pilsner (old), and dark red/black are all the heavy layup. 2200g in 187.

I think the Dark Red/Black had a heavier layup possibly, but the first with the lower tips (EHP like).


They are all good though, as long as you understand about the super rocker.

Is this the de facto 4frnt thread where I can rave about the 194 devastators I got recently? They've been amazing every time I've been on them, even the 1m+ stashes I was finding at whistler were a blast with these bad boys. So nimble for getting into it in the trees and I can still straight line or cave the groomers without any worries. I'm definitely not as fast on these as other skis but I'm having more fun.

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Originally Posted by eSock

... I'm definitely not as fast on these as other skis...

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that's a bummer to hear.

The OG 194 Dev's were faster than other skis (except renegades). Makes sense with the new ones being much lighter though.
My OG's have been relegated to early/late season rock skis, but they're still going strong.... probably the best spring slush crushers out there anyways!

I want an old school layup 190cm devastator. The old school 194cm were to much heft for my average sized manhood.

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Originally Posted by skinipenem

I want an old school layup 190cm devastator. The old school 194cm were to much heft for my average sized manhood.

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I don’t know a ton about the devastator shape, but if you’re looking for a heavy reverse camber versatile shape, the HL 110 is real good


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Originally Posted by Judo Chop!

that's a bummer to hear.

The OG 194 Dev's were faster than other skis (except renegades). Makes sense with the new ones being much lighter though.
My OG's have been relegated to early/late season rock skis, but they're still going strong.... probably the best spring slush crushers out there anyways!

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I demoed the HL FR110 and those things truck as PNC mentioned, def look that way if that's what you're looking for.

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Originally Posted by eSock

I demoed the HL FR110 and those things truck as PNC mentioned, def look that way if that's what you're looking for.

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Thx guys! I was just talking with charlesj today about calling Marshal and looking into an HL ski.



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I'm probably going to buy the 186 Dev as I want a lighter ski to complement my heavy quiver. I LOVE my Rens. Such a cool ski. I still am not sure how to describe it. Leaning into the front of the ski to initiate the turn and then stay in it or roll back to neutral to slash or slarve. So fun.

Love my ravens for everyday touring. Only complaint is they do have a speed limit and (mounted with <200g bindings) are not pulling double duty as a travel ski that might involve chairs. I also need (want) a new inbounds soft snow crud charger and tree ski. My instinct says to swiss cheese the latest gen hojis and they should fill my cup for resort days and a no regrets mid-winter travel option. But… always bring your renegades? I think the rens are outside my touring weight limit, but Im keeping an open mind. What would I be primarily missing with hojis vs rens?


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Originally Posted by Johnny Utah

Love my ravens for everyday touring. Only complaint is they do have a speed limit and (mounted with <200g bindings) are not pulling double duty as a travel ski that might involve chairs. I also need (want) a new inbounds soft snow crud charger and tree ski. My instinct says to swiss cheese the latest gen hojis and they should fill my cup for resort days and a no regrets mid-winter travel option. But… always bring your renegades? I think the rens are outside my touring weight limit, but Im keeping an open mind. What would I be primarily missing with hojis vs rens?


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Not really answering your question, but if you’re looking for a reverse camber, crud crushing, do it all soft snow ski, the heritage labs fr110 is reeeeeally good


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Originally Posted by PeachesNCream

Not really answering your question, but if you’re looking for a reverse camber, crud crushing, do it all soft snow ski, the heritage labs fr110 is reeeeeally good


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I’m a total 4FRNT fan (own Ravens + Rens with Duke PTs and Hojis with CAST).

None of the 4FRNTs have seen inbounds snow since I got the FR110’s dialed. The FR110 is like a heavier, Hoji. They eat crud.


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