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It’s wild reading the comments on some of the denier sites. Drroyspencer.com is a good example, lots of educated deniers on that site, it’s not your run of the mill MAGA morons. But they currently have convinced themselves that the warming we are seeing is due to “something else” and the world will start cooling soon. These same people were crowing that the warming had paused from 98-14.Quote:
Originally Posted by Iwantmy2dollars
Both. Just waiting for someone in this thread with all the answers and a crystal ball to post links, or a media giant to produce a video.Quote:
Originally Posted by k2skier112
Lithium is not the only issue, cobalt mining is another, currently fraught with human rights/ethical complications. Recycling automotive lithium batteries is complex, dangerous, and nuanced. It’s going to be an issue.
There's challenges with any new technologyQuote:
Originally Posted by Trackhead
You can be part of the problem or solution
The oil companies are resisting change at all costs. That's why biased media talks like xyz
Of course oil companies are resisting change at all costs. Oil production is their sole mandate. Expecting them to change is like expecting Apple to cancel the iPhone.Quote:
Originally Posted by k2skier112
That's ridiculous. When the cigarette execs all publicly denied a link between smoking and cancer, that was what we should expect? These guys have known for decades. They are all criminals, worse than the cigarette guys . They should not be allowed to get away with itQuote:
Originally Posted by xyz
When it's discovered a product or behavior, is proven to be cause irreparable harm, that knowledge should lead to action. Not - they're making money so don't expect any response.... Especially an existential threat that affects every living thing on earth
Of course, but discussing and anticipating problems shouldn't be off limits, should it?Quote:
Originally Posted by k2skier112
There is a new controversy brewing here about new lithium mines in and around the Colorado/Green River: https://www.ksl.com/article/50794124...lp-us-go-greenQuote:
Originally Posted by Trackhead
might be paywalled?: https://www.sltrib.com/news/environm...-about-go-big/
Sure. There's this thing I've noticed about anticipated problems. Usually someone was doing research about it 20+ years ago, and there were startups starting 10+ years ago to sell solutions. E.g. I don't know shit about battery recycling, but I stumbled across a story about a small company with truly massive expansion plans, who aims to recover the battery materials. Tesla's also yapped about re-using old batteries in their grid storage division. Seems likely a knowledgeable person would cite more than two examples on the planet. Related, most all the companies building cars are working to reduce costs - that means using less of critical/expensive resources. So, the green mantra is covered - reduce, reuse, recycle.Quote:
Originally Posted by Trackhead
As for developing new mineral sources, we happen to have a global, diverse, and efficient economy. I'm confident capital will be appropriately directed to new projects and meet any anticipated demand.
Here's a pretty good video I saw recently about one lithium mining company's prospect (Thacker Pass). She mentions a few other projects, so I feel there must be dozens or hundreds of companies working on lithium projects. Looks like this company has a solid plan to produce a large amount of lithium. Video quality is so-so, content is excellent. Skip ahead at the start 8 or 10 minutes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=inq_ypJeiZk
The little bit I've researched there are challenges as all batteries are proprietary with different construction methods, obviously. So each battery has individual challenges. Obviously humans are advanced enough that we can easily overcome there, but I wonder about cost vs. benefit. Will private companies be able to recycle these batteries, is there a financial incentive? That's the nuance, in my opinion. Perhaps if lithium/cobalt/other materials are $$ enough that will drive the recycling market enough to make it functional.Quote:
Originally Posted by LongShortLong
Quote:
Originally Posted by muted reborn
EV vehicles are the future. But I think most arguments are only against fossil fuels, without consideration given to the potential problems with wide spread EV adoption. Just like "big oil" is dishonest, I have a hard time thinking the mining industry is any more trustworthy. In fact, they have a long track record of being anything but.Quote:
then flushes the lithium free with fresh Colorado River water, according to information Anson CEO Bruce Richardson presented to Utah lawmakers last month. Wastewater will get injected back underground.]
Electric vehicles are hardly a utopian solution. Better than internal combustion, I guess in 50 years we might know the answer.
I read your original response as very dismissive, which is not particularly useful if you really want to discuss issues.Quote:
Originally Posted by Trackhead
Perhaps you didn't mean it as such, but that sure is how I read it.
I think that mass-transit is the future... it's just a matter of how long it takes the U.S. to realize it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Trackhead
Not sure if this has been posted here but apparently the Salton Sea has a shit ton of lithium under it.
https://www.energy.gov/eere/articles...-rich-domestic
https://www.politico.com/newsletters...thium-00120466
Plus you can get at it as a by-product of geothermal energy production.
I looked into who owns the current production (I wanted to get in on that action!) and Berkshire Hathaway currently owns the majority of the generation (and hence potential extraction) down there. So yeah, some deep pockets there.
It certainly wouldn't be classified as productive, I agree. But I do question the downstream, yet to be realized implications, of wide spread adoption of EV.Quote:
Originally Posted by skaredshtles
It's not like there aren't smart people who have been working on these issues for 10-20+ yrs.
Active work ongoing to replace cobalt and nickel with manganese and titanium since 2014. Disordered rock salt cathodes now becoming scalable and new techniques reduce energy demands during production.
New tech from Oakridge Labs funded by DOE that simplifies cost and complexity of Li and Co recovery during battery recycling.
Sodium and Calcium can replace lithium (prolly not in EV's due to the charge/size ratio advantage of Li+ for compact battery) but as storage capacity at home or at source generation where space in less an issue and due to the cheap cost of both.
All of these will likely hapen in the next 10 yrs.
Yeah I don't trust their numbers at all on how much water they will need, which is over 9 billion gallons per year, in a famous basin that obviously doesn't have extra water to give. Their pumping method is unproven tech too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Trackhead
Wayne county leased them almost a billion gallons though recently: https://www.nsenergybusiness.com/new...hium-project/#
Again. You can’t expect oil companies to declare themselves criminals, turn themselves in and shut down. They are operating within the current law. It’s up to law makers to make them criminals. So blame your hero Joe Biden, not oil companies.Quote:
Originally Posted by Iwantmy2dollars
Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
Certainly they don't need to go to jail, but oil companies should make good-sense measures to ablate their carbon footprint and sequester their production more effectively. Not sure why you're always all-in on the all-or-nothing statements when describing this area.Quote:
Originally Posted by xyz
Are you reading what I’m responding to? How can I not be binary?Quote:
Originally Posted by Garfield3d
Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
With respect to O&G and mining companies, I am with xyz and trackhead here. These companies are about money. Nothing else. They will not sacrifice a dime of their profit for the greater good, no matter the long term cost to the world. And if they do give up cash, it’s to pay off, ..err, lobby, ‘honest’ politicians.
It’s up to the public to use less of their product and drive investment elsewhere. As long as we continue demand, they will be more than happy to provide and shed not one tear for the future of their progeny let alone ours.
Oops post
Who gave them this "mandate?" If you are talking about shareholders, does that mean that if people are financially supporting ("investing" so as to make a profit) sex traffickers, the sex traffickers have a mandate to continue?Quote:
Originally Posted by xyz
Yes. Shareholders. Of course. The difference here is that oil and gas production is legal and sex trafficking is not.Quote:
Originally Posted by WMD
Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
I am in agreement that mining for minerals for EVs should be heavily monitored and done in as safe a way as possible. What I’m a little confused about why so many people that focus on the issues with resources required for EVs completely ignore the issues related to oil and gas production.
Between the environmental destruction and social/political issues it’s not like gas is some pristine trouble free resource. The Middle East is a mess because a small group control immense wealth from oil and instead of sharing and bettering their country, they keep their people in poverty and convince them it’s America and Israel why their lives are shit.
I know it’s Canada but you can’t tell me this is a better alternative. At least include scenes like this and the myriad of oil spills into the conversation.
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