To Vaccinate or Not---The Rat Flu Odyssey Continues

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Originally Posted by old goat

J and J chaser is not as good as mRNA booster

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Yeah, I think that was the upshot of this study that's been making the rounds. If you got J&J prime, get an mRNA booster ASAP, any mRNA booster, but ideally Moderna. If you got Pfizer or Moderna first, it doesn't really matter which mRNA booster you get. But #1: the data isn't all in yet for this study, so it's hard to tell for sure. But #2: this is an unpublished and un-reviewed article. But #3: they only looked at IgG binding. But #4: the study used a full-dose (100ug) Moderna booster, not the 1/2 dose that's approved as a booster.

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Originally Posted by old goat

That will have to do for an answer until the intelligentsia shows up.

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I hate to be the one to tell you, old goat, but I believe you are a card-carrying member of the aforementioned esteemed club.

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Originally Posted by Danno

The thing to remember with drugs is that more isn't necessarily better, m'kay.

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That doesn't seem right. Gunna need some sources cited.

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Originally Posted by old goat

Or wipe your ass with them. (I loved that old commercial. One of those ads you remember even though you can't remember what it was for.)

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Ohhh i had close call last week.... so i am really lucky that i did not have to shit in the woods.

The only paper options were cash or receipts!

With todays knowledge i will se the 50bugs next time and a fiver for the clearing stroke!

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Originally Posted by CS2-6

I looked hard upthread for answers to this question, and couldn't find any. But if this has been previously answered, sorry. Even when this thread isn't being trolled into oblivion, it's a lot to keep up with (in a good way).

My primary vax series was Moderna. Would there be any plausible benefit (stronger T-cell response and broader antibody pool from a heterologous regime, etc.) other than possibly lessened side effects, for me getting Pfizer as a booster as opposed to Moderna? Or is antibody titer really king, in which case the best booster would be to lie and say this is my first shot so I could get the full 100ug Moderna shot.

I have a couple friends who work in vaccine research and they have suggested to me that I get boosted with a different mRNA vax than I had for my primary series, but I wanted to see what the TGR Intelligentsia thought.

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Moderna shot #2 knocked me on my ass for 24 hours. Like in bed, fever, headache, the works. I’m 14 hours out from my Pfizer chaser, and outside of a sore arm, feel completely normal. Can’t speak to levels of immunity with the mix and match, but quite happy to not be crushed again today.

They are starting clinics at the local elementary schools in mid November for the 5 to 11 age group. As a parent of a 6 yo...I have to be honest, I don't think I am ready to sign up in the first wave.

There was a good opinion piece in USA Today this morning talking about it, but while I was able to read it on my phone, it is now behind a pay wall on my computer:

https://www.usatoday.com/restricted/...2F&gnt-tng-s=1

It was talking through myocarditis rates (1 in 5,000) for the 12 to whatever group of teenage boys and the Pfizer trial of the 5 to 11 age group (4,700 test group) and how moderna is not submitting their vaccine for emergency approval for this younger group due to the myocarditis issues.

Wife and I are fully vaccinated, and I was signed up to get my booster yesterday, but came down with a cold and they advised to wait a week or two. We had COVID in March/April of last year when it first made it rounds, then my wife had a break through case a couple weeks ago, kids were home from school for two weeks, we were all isolated, etc.

It isn't death or hospitalization, but what a pain in the ass. I know so many people getting COVID right now that are fully vaccinated. It is a constant flow. I hear of few people in quarantine, so I can only guess many fully vaccinated people with symptoms are not getting tested or quarantining and that is partially why it is spreading so much. Blaming just the unvaccinated is not really accurate at this point IMHO.

Anyhow, my 6 yo son has a bicuspid aortic valve. I am not against any parent that wants their kid to get the first round doing it...but for him, I am gonna wait for the first couple waves to see how things go.

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Originally Posted by ripvw

Moderna shot #2 knocked me on my ass for 24 hours. Like in bed, fever, headache, the works. I’m 14 hours out from my Pfizer chaser, and outside of a sore arm, feel completely normal. Can’t speak to levels of immunity with the mix and match, but quite happy to not be crushed again today.

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Could it be that Moderna was 100mcg per shot (their booster is now 50mcg) and Pfizer’s shot was/is 30mcg?

fwiw, after significant exposure to confirmed covid, the vax with the silent consonant, no booster yet, has worked. No covidz on me.

We did quarantine while waiting for test results, masked in home.

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Originally Posted by gretch6364

They are starting clinics at the local elementary schools in mid November for the 5 to 11 age group. As a parent of a 6 yo...I have to be honest, I don't think I am ready to sign up in the first wave.

There was a good opinion piece in USA Today this morning talking about it, but while I was able to read it on my phone, it is now behind a pay wall on my computer:

https://www.usatoday.com/restricted/...2F&gnt-tng-s=1

It was talking through myocarditis rates (1 in 5,000) for the 12 to whatever group of teenage boys and the Pfizer trial of the 5 to 11 age group (4,700 test group) and how moderna is not submitting their vaccine for emergency approval for this younger group due to the myocarditis issues.

Wife and I are fully vaccinated, and I was signed up to get my booster yesterday, but came down with a cold and they advised to wait a week or two. We had COVID in March/April of last year when it first made it rounds, then my wife had a break through case a couple weeks ago, kids were home from school for two weeks, we were all isolated, etc.

It isn't death or hospitalization, but what a pain in the ass. I know so many people getting COVID right now that are fully vaccinated. It is a constant flow. I hear of few people in quarantine, so I can only guess many fully vaccinated people with symptoms are not getting tested or quarantining and that is partially why it is spreading so much. Blaming just the unvaccinated is not really accurate at this point IMHO.

Anyhow, my 6 yo son has a bicuspid aortic valve. I am not against any parent that wants their kid to get the first round doing it...but for him, I am gonna wait for the first couple waves to see how things go.

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We were kinda in the same boat (6 and 8 year old). Given kids hadn't seemed to be getting it too bad, plan was to let the vaccine roll out and line them up for later in the school year. This actually lined up with what our pediatrician, MD friends and folks who worked at pharma cos were saying too - this idea of waiting a bit was not a controversial one.

Now we have an outbreak in their elementary school, some of the kids are getting symptomatic, and my oldest's best friend just came down with it, so my kids are both booked for the vaccine clinic on Sunday morning.

Not exactly thrilled about it, but WTF can you do? Wife and I are grabbing boosters today too, just because some of the vaxxed parents have actually been getting hit by it as well.

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Originally Posted by gretch6364

They are starting clinics at the local elementary schools in mid November for the 5 to 11 age group. As a parent of a 6 yo...I have to be honest, I don't think I am ready to sign up in the first wave.

There was a good opinion piece in USA Today this morning talking about it, but while I was able to read it on my phone, it is now behind a pay wall on my computer:

https://www.usatoday.com/restricted/...2F&gnt-tng-s=1

It was talking through myocarditis rates (1 in 5,000) for the 12 to whatever group of teenage boys and the Pfizer trial of the 5 to 11 age group (4,700 test group) and how moderna is not submitting their vaccine for emergency approval for this younger group due to the myocarditis issues.

Wife and I are fully vaccinated, and I was signed up to get my booster yesterday, but came down with a cold and they advised to wait a week or two. We had COVID in March/April of last year when it first made it rounds, then my wife had a break through case a couple weeks ago, kids were home from school for two weeks, we were all isolated, etc.

It isn't death or hospitalization, but what a pain in the ass. I know so many people getting COVID right now that are fully vaccinated. It is a constant flow. I hear of few people in quarantine, so I can only guess many fully vaccinated people with symptoms are not getting tested or quarantining and that is partially why it is spreading so much. Blaming just the unvaccinated is not really accurate at this point IMHO.

Anyhow, my 6 yo son has a bicuspid aortic valve. I am not against any parent that wants their kid to get the first round doing it...but for him, I am gonna wait for the first couple waves to see how things go.

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I’m sympathetic to this, although I would hope you have discussed the risk of the vaccine vs the risk of COVID to your son with his doctor.

One of the really easy things to understand about all the other vaccines my kids get is that they have been given to millions of kids, so when I (more accurately my much better educated wife) look at the statistics and the complications it feels like the side effects and complications are better understood. It also feels like I’m being asked to give my kids a vaccine under an emergency use authorization because some irresponsible adults are going to end up dead because they won’t take the same vaccine while the risk to my kids from COVID is low.

I think this is another messaging failure on the CDCs part. Many of us have way different risk tolerance for our kids compared to ourselves. They should be out comparing risks from the COVID vaccine for kids to the risks from all the other vaccines we get. How dangerous is COVID for my kid compared to tetanus, MMR, etc. How getting vaccinated protects at risk kids in our schools, etc.

My kids are under 5, so I’m currently not faced with this decision, but sure feel like there could be a lot more accurate information out there that is easily digestible by layman but instead we have a fountain of bullshit on the internet.

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Originally Posted by JimmyCarter

We were kinda in the same boat (6 and 8 year old). Given kids hadn't seemed to be getting it too bad, plan was to let the vaccine roll out and line them up for later in the school year. This actually lined up with what our pediatrician, MD friends and folks who worked at pharma cos were saying too - this idea of waiting a bit was not a controversial one.

Now we have an outbreak in their elementary school, some of the kids are getting symptomatic, and my oldest's best friend just came down with it, so my kids are both booked for the vaccine clinic on Sunday morning.

Not exactly thrilled about it, but WTF can you do? Wife and I are grabbing boosters today too, just because some of the vaxxed parents have actually been getting hit by it as well.

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I signed my kids up (8 and 10) for a shot the first avail I could find around here, day after Thanksgiving. I completely understand the idea of letting a bunch of kids be test cases for those on the fence. While I don't agree that there is that big of a risk that outweighs the risks associated with COVID I do get the logic of letting thousands of kids go first. My question to folks like Gretch is, how many kids need to get vaccinated for you to feel comfortable? There will be cases of kids that have adverse reactions to the vaccine. Is there a threshold of adverse reactions that you're comfortable with?

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Originally Posted by gretch6364

I know so many people getting COVID right now that are fully vaccinated. It is a constant flow. I hear of few people in quarantine, so I can only guess many fully vaccinated people with symptoms are not getting tested or quarantining and that is partially why it is spreading so much. Blaming just the unvaccinated is not really accurate at this point IMHO.

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I don't know whether there is anything statistically significant, but I do think there is an issue with behavior of some of the vaccinated. As in, "I'm vaccinated so I don't need to follow precautions". Heck, I think there was someone in here posting about how his wife tested positive but he felt fine and never tested himself. Positive tests are inconvenient, especially when you feel fine, so I think some people want to say "I'm vaccinated, so I will apply the ostrich method to any close contacts."

I’m curious about all of you that are getting boosters who in my head don’t meet the criteria (IE- not over 65 or meeting the other criteria).

How are you getting the shot and why?

Or did they change the criteria and I missed it?

I’ve had my 7 tr old get tested 3 times always negative. The rest of us have been positive for a while now. It so frustrating because the 5 yr old could go to school on Monday but the 7 yr old has to wait another week after that. We are waiting until they can both go. Positive 5 yr old has no symptoms

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Originally Posted by old_newguy

I’m curious about all of you that are getting boosters who in my head don’t meet the criteria (IE- not over 65 or meeting the other criteria).

How are you getting the shot and why?

Or did they change the criteria and I missed it?

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I got mine because they are available to ex-smokers. I smoked in my 20s. Why did I get a boost? Because it's been over 6 months since my last dose and their are antivaxxing numbskulls in my orbit.

My wife is care taker of her folks so she qualified as well.

Around here it's easy to find a place that doesn't ask any questions.

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Originally Posted by Danno

I don't know whether there is anything statistically significant, but I do think there is an issue with behavior of some of the vaccinated. As in, "I'm vaccinated so I don't need to follow precautions". Heck, I think there was someone in here posting about how his wife tested positive but he felt fine and never tested himself. Positive tests are inconvenient, especially when you feel fine, so I think some people want to say "I'm vaccinated, so I will apply the ostrich method to any close contacts."

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Well, there is also the fact that every time I’ve been “exposed” and “quarantined” or have symptoms and subsequently taken time off, kept kids home, and been tested…..I and they are not positive and just have a cold.

(My kids have been in a daycare the entire pandemic, so I’ve been through this a few times. Only recently did we actually have a COVID case in the classroom.)

It’s getting fucking annoying and expensive. Frankly at this point it feels like I’m upending my life to prevent people who don’t give a shit about anyone else from getting sick.

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Originally Posted by Adolf Allerbush

I got mine because they are available to ex-smokers. I smoked in my 20s. Why did I get a boost? Because it's been over 6 months since my last dose and their are antivaxxing numbskulls in my orbit.

My wife is care taker of her folks so she qualified as well.

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Hmm, didnÂ’t know the former smoker thing qualified. Might need to look into that. Thanks.

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Originally Posted by old_newguy

I’m curious about all of you that are getting boosters who in my head don’t meet the criteria (IE- not over 65 or meeting the other criteria).

How are you getting the shot and why?

Or did they change the criteria and I missed it?

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The State of Colorado sent me a text saying I was eligible to get the shot. I went to CVS's website, answered their questions honestly (one of which was very vague and easy to honestly answer yes to), and they set me up with an appointment. I think there's a wink wink nudge nudge thing going on with the booster, where officially there is eligibility criteria, but unofficially it is known to be beneficial to anyone and so lots of places are happy to put one in your arm.

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Originally Posted by Danno

I don't know whether there is anything statistically significant, but I do think there is an issue with behavior of some of the vaccinated. As in, "I'm vaccinated so I don't need to follow precautions".

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This is observably true. Some kids in my neighborhood have regular house parties like pre-pandemic. Their attitude is "we're all vaxed because of our shitty service jobs, so it's all good" The thing is, (statistically) at least a few of their friends' friends aren't.

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Originally Posted by Danno

The State of Colorado sent me a text saying I was eligible to get the shot. I went to CVS's website, answered their questions honestly, and they set me up with an appointment. I think there's a wink wink nudge nudge thing going on with the booster, where officially there is eligibility criteria, but unofficially it is known to be beneficial to anyone and so lots of places are happy to put one in your arm.

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This is consistent in MA. No one is going to stop you from getting it if you want it.

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Originally Posted by Ted Striker

This is observably true. Some kids in my neighborhood have regular house parties like pre-pandemic. Their attitude is "we're all vaxed because of our shitty service jobs, so it's all good" The thing is, (statistically) at least a few of their friends' friends aren't.

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I’m going to come off like some anti-vaccine, COVID denier asshole, but if I and my friends are vaccinated and are having a party, at this point why should I curtail my life for some friend of friend who is a moron? (Or are you saying that friend of friend is at the party?)

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Originally Posted by old_newguy

I’m curious about all of you that are getting boosters who in my head don’t meet the criteria (IE- not over 65 or meeting the other criteria).

How are you getting the shot and why?

Or did they change the criteria and I missed it?

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I can book an appointment for a booster for today in my local area at multiple locations within 20 miles. Why shouldn't people get one if the people we're supposed to be waiting for aren't lining up?

Between that and the definition of what an frontline worker is now that lots of folks are back in retail stores and offices, I think anyone who wants one should go and get one.

FWIW, I got J&J so I'm approved to get the discount store vax boosted. And I'm one of the second tier frontline workers according to CA.

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Originally Posted by old_newguy

I’m going to come off like some anti-vaccine, COVID denier asshole, but if I and my friends are vaccinated and are having a party, at this point why should I curtail my life for some friend of friend who is a moron? (Or are you saying that friend of friend is at the party?)

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What about for people who are unable to get vaxxed? Or, whose eligibility was just now opened?

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Originally Posted by Not DJSapp

I can book an appointment for a booster for today in my local area at multiple locations within 20 miles. Why shouldn't people get one if the people we're supposed to be waiting for aren't lining up?

Between that and the definition of what an frontline worker is now that lots of folks are back in retail stores and offices, I think anyone who wants one should go and get one.

FWIW, I got J&J so I'm approved to get the discount store vax boosted. And I'm one of the second tier frontline workers according to CA.

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I haven’t gotten one because the CDC and my physician have not recommended I get one. So I was a little confused on if the recommendations have changed.

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Originally Posted by riser3

What about for people who are unable to get vaxxed? Or, whose eligibility was just now opened?

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This scenario is still going to exist in 6 months when all the kids over 5 are vaccinated. And a year from now when everyone 18 months + are vaccinated.

I’m talking about the moron friend of a friend who can get vaccinated.

The harsh reality for people who can’t get vaccinated or are immunocompromised and the vaccine isn’t as effective is that they are going to have to protect themselves. (My sister is in the category, so I get it.) Based on the behavior of a bunch of people they are going to have to assume going forward that there is always some unvaccinated idiot without a real excuse who might be sick.

(Fine, fine, I’ll shut up, just getting frustrated with the “please upend your life to largely protect people who are actively working against solving this problem.)

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Originally Posted by old_newguy

I’m going to come off like some anti-vaccine, COVID denier asshole, but if I and my friends are vaccinated and are having a party, at this point why should I curtail my life for some friend of friend who is a moron? (Or are you saying that friend of friend is at the party?)

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IDK, but thinking back to when I was in my 20s, there was pretty much no such thing as a house party where you knew every single person. Someone always brought a friend or had a new girl/boyfriend. And due to the ludicrous housing costs in this town, it's not unusual to have more roommates than rooms.

But my point really was that the invincibility of youth is only heightened by being vaccinated.