Official ATK Binding Thread

I have an older version of the Crest (the version with one flap only) and was thinking of upgrading to a newer version of the Crest (which still seems not to be the latest one, but already has 2 magneto flaps and the AP brake system but still has the asymmetric spring design and old lever in the toe piece)

Do both versions share the same mountig hole pattern? I´d like to avoid drilling further holes in the Backland UL Carbon Ski

and one additional question: ATK states a max. permissible load (skier + gear) of 65kg for the Crest 8 while I weight fully equipped like 80kg.
The Z value of up to 8 from the Crest seems still OK for my style of skiing (as my Crest are set to 7 atm), just wondering about the low load rating of 65kg...I assumed the only difference between the Crest8 and the Crest10 are differnt spring rates of the springs in the heel piece used...
Any thoughts or concerns using that binding with a 80kg skier?

thanks

I have both 8 and 10 Crests, and they look the same, so I wouldn’t be worried about that weight thing, as long as the release values work for you.

Check Skimo for the mount pattern, but I don’t think it changed until the new toes.

Do note that the AP brake raises the heel, so delta increases, until you go to the new taller toe design.

Thanks for your reply and the hint with the different delta value-crazy that so many models and even variants of that binding exist...
In general a different delta can be compensated in downhil mode by a different lean adjustment of the boot, is that correct or do I miss another point here beside the fact that flat mode in walking position is also slightly `steeper` with a higher delta?

I saw a link once in that forum with all the delta values of many different brands bindings but can not find it anymore-someone pls has a link?

I checked the Skimo page but could not find any mounting hole patterns there.

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Originally Posted by h-grill@gmx.at

Thanks for your reply and the hint with the different delta value-crazy that so many models and even variants of that binding exist...
In general a different delta can be compensated in downhil mode by a different lean adjustment of the boot, is that correct or do I miss another point here beside the fact that flat mode in walking position is also slightly `steeper` with a higher delta?

I saw a link once in that forum with all the delta values of many different brands bindings but can not find it anymore-someone pls has a link?

I checked the Skimo page but could not find any mounting hole patterns there.

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The angle of your foot and the angle of your shin translate to how skiing feels differently

Quote:

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Originally Posted by h-grill@gmx.at

Thanks for your reply and the hint with the different delta value-crazy that so many models and even variants of that binding exist...
In general a different delta can be compensated in downhil mode by a different lean adjustment of the boot, is that correct or do I miss another point here beside the fact that flat mode in walking position is also slightly `steeper` with a higher delta?

I saw a link once in that forum with all the delta values of many different brands bindings but can not find it anymore-someone pls has a link?

I checked the Skimo page but could not find any mounting hole patterns there.

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here is the mountain pattern info:
https://skimo.co/tech-binding-hole-p...-XkHCIjFAbXhWn

and here is the delta:

https://skimo.co/pin-heights?srsltid...NDUD5isMOHTxkN

And no, binding delta, which creates ramp angle on your foot, is not the same as forward lean. Both will move your knee forward, but with a difference in your ankle angle, so not the same from a bio mechanical standpoint.

You can of course shim the toe to reduce ramp. But if you want a low ramp, you would need a lot of shim for that binding.

thank you for the links and the clarification

So it seems in general a lower delta is what people are looking for.
According to the table in the link the Crest with ~11mm is in the higher range-and the AP Ski brake then has an even higher delta value? Unfortunately the list does not state which brakes were installed when they took the measurements...

IIRC the delta table I saw and was talking about had even more differnt bindings included

Quote:

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Originally Posted by h-grill@gmx.at

thank you for the links and the clarification

So it seems in general a lower delta is what people are looking for.
According to the table in the link the Crest with ~11mm is in the higher range-and the AP Ski brake then has an even higher delta value? Unfortunately the list does not state which brakes were installed when they took the measurements...

IIRC the delta table I saw and was talking about had even more differnt bindings included

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N.B. In finding the boot delta by the binding pin delta table, you must also consider the tech fitting positions on your boots. Hence, different boots in the same pin binding combo can produce different boot delta.

This. Stand your boot on a flat surface, measure height from the flat surface to center of tech fittings. Any offset must be added/subtracted from the pin binding delta.

Example. My touring boots (Cosmos III) are pretty much zero delta between tech fittings when on a flat surface, hence I can use the pin binding delta table as an indicator to added/decreased boot ramp.

However, it won't give me the true (absolute) boot delta (unless binding pin delta is zero), as that origins from the bottoms of front and rear soles contact points... (Bowing my head gently, thankful for being lectured by @Spyderjon on the subject some time ago)

Not really rocket biology, but since tech fitting heights on boots are not standardized, boot delta in any given binding combo will differ depending on just that. If it does, shims are your friend!

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Originally Posted by h-grill@gmx.at

thank you for the links and the clarification

So it seems in general a lower delta is what people are looking for.
According to the table in the link the Crest with ~11mm is in the higher range-and the AP Ski brake then has an even higher delta value? Unfortunately the list does not state which brakes were installed when they took the measurements...

IIRC the delta table I saw and was talking about had even more differnt bindings included

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Here is the binding delta numbers from wildsnow which are close to skimo https://wildsnow.com/10733/get-up-ri...for-your-ramp/

It's hard to generalize. Some people are more "old school" or racer focused and want more forward lean. They tend to like more ramp angle. See the 14 - 18mm ramp of the older Dynafits for eg.

Some prefer close to neutral ramp angle. See the 2 -5 mm of Marker Alpinist or Salomon Mtn for eg..

It depends on you

I was planning on getting the ATK Freeraider 15 Evo for a new touring setup, but saw this and am reconsidering: https://www.instagram.com/reel/DENXw8ruQs8

I upgraded from Guardian frame bindings to Shifts a couple years ago thinking I would be dividing my time 50/50 between touring and lift served, but last season it ended up being more like 80/20 touring. The Freeraider looks like the way to go. The Shifts have been fine, but I wouldn't mind shedding the weight.

How concerned should I be about something like this happening? The majority of my descents are mellow EC tree shots.

Selling some BNIP Raider 13 EVO black. https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/...?highlight=atk

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Originally Posted by 365wp

I was planning on getting the ATK Freeraider 15 Evo for a new touring setup, but saw this and am reconsidering: https://www.instagram.com/reel/DENXw8ruQs8

I upgraded from Guardian frame bindings to Shifts a couple years ago thinking I would be dividing my time 50/50 between touring and lift served, but last season it ended up being more like 80/20 touring. The Freeraider looks like the way to go. The Shifts have been fine, but I wouldn't mind shedding the weight.

How concerned should I be about something like this happening? The majority of my descents are mellow EC tree shots.

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dang, that looked horrible. Frame by frame it looked like the heel rotated just enough for the toes to release but not for the heels to go.Attachment 508868
At least that’s what this frame (just before the toe released on the right foot) looks like to me.

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Originally Posted by 365wp

How concerned should I be about something like this happening? The majority of my descents are mellow EC tree shots.

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I've been thinking about this a lot lately, I've seen more ATK failures among my friends/social media circle than any other brand by far, but I know that ATK is also the most popular binding in these groups. This is not the first time I have seen someone calling out ATK on social media after getting injured in the backcountry or losing a ski.

Most issues center around the toepiece losing clamping power and causing pre-release, but I think every time I have seen this it was with the race-style toe found on the Trofeo/Haute Route/Helio/Crest. One time I saw someone I know complaining an injury was caused by the toe failing to release and they followed up by saying ATK took some responsibility and replaced the binding but I am inclined to chalk that one up to user error. I have also encountered other manufacturing errors which have mostly been covered further down in this thread such as the heel spring being way too soft, the toepiece falling apart due to the pin connecting the jaws backing out, and ski crampon hooks not being machined properly. I am pretty sure all of the problematic bindings were bought between 2021 and 2022, when they were growing rapidly and I think to an extent we can attribute these issues to growing pains. Most of the skiers I know who ski a lot in the backcountry are on ATKs so it makes sense that the bindings have the most issues because they are getting beat on more than anything else these days. Personally, I would not buy an ATK binding that was made before 2022.

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Originally Posted by Benneke10

I've been thinking about this a lot lately, I've seen more ATK failures among my friends/social media circle than any other brand by far, but I know that ATK is also the most popular binding in these groups. This is not the first time I have seen someone calling out ATK on social media after getting injured in the backcountry or losing a ski.

Most issues center around the toepiece losing clamping power and causing pre-release, but I think every time I have seen this it was with the race-style toe found on the Trofeo/Haute Route/Helio/Crest. One time I saw someone I know complaining an injury was caused by the toe failing to release and they followed up by saying ATK took some responsibility and replaced the binding but I am inclined to chalk that one up to user error. I have also encountered other manufacturing errors which have mostly been covered further down in this thread such as the heel spring being way too soft, the toepiece falling apart due to the pin connecting the jaws backing out, and ski crampon hooks not being machined properly. I am pretty sure all of the problematic bindings were bought between 2021 and 2022, when they were growing rapidly and I think to an extent we can attribute these issues to growing pains. Most of the skiers I know who ski a lot in the backcountry are on ATKs so it makes sense that the bindings have the most issues because they are getting beat on more than anything else these days. Personally, I would not buy an ATK binding that was made before 2022.

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Do we know what model ATK? Was there a freeride spacer installed? I doubt it was because there was snow or ice packed in the toe pieces or sockets since he mentioned he had just skinned up a long way and transitioned without removing his skis, and ATK toes are pretty resistant to snow packing under the pin arms. I've had issues with the freeride spacer getting ice chunks on the pads. The ice starts in the little screw holes. This leads to difficulty stepping into the heel properly, and/or could put a lot of unwanted upward force on the heel pins. When freeride spacers are set up correctly, there's very little room for ice build up.

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Originally Posted by natebob

Do we know what model ATK? Was there a freeride spacer installed? I doubt it was because there was snow or ice packed in the toe pieces or sockets since he mentioned he had just skinned up a long way and transitioned without removing his skis, and ATK toes are pretty resistant to snow packing under the pin arms. I've had issues with the freeride spacer getting ice chunks on the pads. The ice starts in the little screw holes. This leads to difficulty stepping into the heel properly, and/or could put a lot of unwanted upward force on the heel pins. When freeride spacers are set up correctly, there's very little room for ice build up.

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From that frame grab it looks like there’s a freeride spacer.

Thanks for the responses, appreciate it.

Can anyone comment on whether the old freeride spacer and new freeride spacer use the same shim?
Old with 1 screw, new with 2.

Attachment 508993

The hole placement on the old ones look to roughly line up with where the screws are, so seems possible they would be the same.
Attachment 508994

Shims are not interchangeable I’m 99% sure

Shims are not interchangeable and I'm 100% sure :smile:

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Originally Posted by natebob

When freeride spacers are set up correctly, there's very little room for ice build up.

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Mine were building up ice that I needed to knock off on a recent tour before clicking in for the down. How do I prevent that?

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Originally Posted by mr_pretzel

Shims are not interchangeable I’m 99% sure

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Originally Posted by Spyderjon

Shims are not interchangeable and I'm 100% sure :smile:

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Thanks to both of you!

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Originally Posted by zion zig zag

Mine were building up ice that I needed to knock off on a recent tour before clicking in for the down. How do I prevent that?

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DCF tape or there is no way. Super important to always knock of the ice so if you’re into the no ski removal transitions maybe the freeride spacer isnt the best idea. Only prereleases I’ve ever had have been with ice on the spacer.

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Originally Posted by mr_pretzel

DCF tape or there is no way. Super important to always knock of the ice so if you’re into the no ski removal transitions maybe the freeride spacer isnt the best idea. Only prereleases I’ve ever had have been with ice on the spacer.

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I transition without taking off skis 90+% of the time, but I found I was able to knock off the ice with my pole handles pretty well. So with the DCF tape you just cut it exactly to fit and press on? Does it stay very long and I assume it doesn't interfere with release?

I have never used the freeride spacers, but I have done hundreds of skis on skin to ski transitions and I have never noticed snow stuck on my heels at the top of a run. I guess I wouldn't notice if I am using a normal tech heel that has more clearance? Has anyone else had issues with this? If I have to make sure my heels are clear of snow before every transition with the freeride spacer that would be annoying, and ATK hasn't made it clear to their customers that is a necessary step for a safe transition.

Clearing snow from ones heel is an important step in preserving the release characteristics of any binding, touring or alpine, while skiing a maritime snowpack, in my experience. Obviously there's more margin in alpine setups, but packed snow is always a concern. The UHMWPE tape mod on the ATK spacers is a good one, but I've never had notable icing issues on the screw heads, even without the tape.

Re growing pains, atk had had some issues, but every touring binding manufacturer I know of has had durability issues at one point or another. Given atk market penetration and the nature of the pintech interface and the potential for wear and setup issues, it is not surprising to see failures and prerelease with some frequency. The pintech design is really not mass market friendly, it requires a relatively high degree of user knowledge for 'safe' use, IMHO.

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Originally Posted by Benneke10

I have never used the freeride spacers, but I have done hundreds of skis on skin to ski transitions and I have never noticed snow stuck on my heels at the top of a run. I guess I wouldn't notice if I am using a normal tech heel that has more clearance? Has anyone else had issues with this? If I have to make sure my heels are clear of snow before every transition with the freeride spacer that would be annoying, and ATK hasn't made it clear to their customers that is a necessary step for a safe transition.

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You’ve never had snow build up under your heels while touring before? I’ve had it build up so much snow/ice that I felt like I had a riser up. This has happened on Salomon MTN and dynafits to me before, so I’m not surprised it builds up on the ATK spacer.

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Originally Posted by zion zig zag

You’ve never had snow build up under your heels while touring before? I’ve had it build up so much snow/ice that I felt like I had a riser up. This has happened on Salomon MTN and dynafits to me before, so I’m not surprised it builds up on the ATK spacer.

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I haven't had snow build up under my heels to the extent that it interfered with stepping into my bindings in a memorable way, perhaps I knocked snow off a few times but never remember struggling with it or giving it much attention

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Originally Posted by Benneke10

I haven't had snow build up under my heels to the extent that it interfered with stepping into my bindings in a memorable way, perhaps I knocked snow off a few times but never remember struggling with it or giving it much attention

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You are probably just skiing much drier snow than many of us. Happens fairly frequently to me too, but really only with wet snow or warming conditions.

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Originally Posted by MottN

You are probably just skiing much drier snow than many of us. Happens fairly frequently to me too, but really only with wet snow or warming conditions.

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Yuuup. Took a few tumbles from pre-release until I figured this out. PNW deep and heavy, and felt like I just walked right out of the binding.

I still transition without taking off skis but I now check the bottom on my boots and the spacer and give it a few extra stomps to be sure.

Are people putting tape over the screw holes or over the entire spacer?

I thought of using the spray lube that I coat my snowblower chute with in the spacer to keep snow off.

I'm about to mount up a set of Freeraider 15 Evo's. What is the function of the phillips head screw that is in the back of the toe-piece? It's interesting as there is a thin U-clip that sits in front of the screw head that keeps you from getting a screw driver on it. The manual's don't seem to give any information. Thanks,

That's where they hide the red pill. ^^^^ ;)

Do you mean the DIN setting screw?

^^ Ah yes that one! I'm an idiot.

So I’ve got s couple new pairs of FR15s, new spacing should be 3mm, but using the markings.

So weirdly one of my pairs sets up at 4mm when using the markings, all the others at 3mm with the markings and checking with an allen key.

Is my one pair a early model destined for NZ or something before they changed to 3mm? Super confused on this one.

I believe four mm is correct per ATK’s published materials. I never received the spacer in the box, but the toe shim is four mm so that worked at least for a plywood test mount

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Originally Posted by ::: :::

I believe four mm is correct per ATK’s published materials. I never received the spacer in the box, but the toe shim is four mm so that worked at least for a plywood test mount

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2024/25 freeraiders are now 3mm
https://skimo.co/tech-binding-heel-g...2Vp5j04SAYes3M

Well, now I gotta go look at the bindings and make sure I’m set appropriately…[check mfr date & then gap]

Another question as I wait for atk tech support: does the older front brake fr 14 have the same mounting pattern as the newer bindings?

if there’s no spacer in your box look for a line etched on the heel pins

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Originally Posted by Fred Pabst

^^ Ah yes that one! I'm an idiot.

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If you mean the silver Philips head screw at the back of the heel base plate then that's the heel length adjustment screw not the lateral din.

anyone really like the old style push button brakes? My shop has a set of Elan branded C-Raider 12 with 108 brakes I can give a good deal on.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...a8ba58c05d.jpg