Fatherhood anonymous; an open discussion on being a dad.

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Originally Posted by Buster Highmen

Our kids had windows nokia phones from 12 to until 14, so not much in the way of apps or innertoob access.
Around 14 they got iphones and we never restricted them, but did ask them to make good choices and think about what they were doing.

I figured any restriction would just make the forbidden fruit that much sweeter.

My son has a pretty virulent video game obsession and we'd talk about that. He'd stop playing for a while. But he was always really shy, so at least this was a way for him to socialize. His fav game was echo, a VR game that was kind of like quiddich with tourneys and chat groups. He's still into it as a physics senior in college and just finished his first research assistantship.

My daughter did tiktok, instagram, etc but has since slacked off.

Aside from sweetening the taboo, I thought that it's better to let them make their own decisions and recognize when things were going south. Better to learn that skill earlier than later. I think they recognized and appreciated the trust.

Each has turned out well, studious, well regarded kids on their way to being responsible people.

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This is great advice. If you parent them right the first 10-12 years they'll have some decent boundaries. If you restrict them too much they'll figure out a way and just end up lying to mom and pop. Just don't be that clueless asshole parent that claims you know everything and kids are perfect while they're in the garage sniffing paint or dating the gym teacher.

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Originally Posted by yeahman

Sounds like a good kid who has earned your trust so far. We put a lot of trust in our two girls as far as phones/social media, etc., and they never let us down so far. [emoji1696]We got them phones in middle school and made them wait until they were 13 to sign up for Instagram, Snapchat, etc., because that is the "official" age requirement. They groused about this a bit because many of their friends lied about their ages and got accounts earlier, but we stuck to our guns. My thinking was you have a loooong online digital life ahead of you and it's best not to start out with a lie.

OTOH we know a couple of their friends whose parents forbid them to be on social media and still do through high school. This does not work. All these kids figured out workarounds and hid it from their parents. All the parents succeeded in doing was creating a culture of deceit with their kid, by forcing the kid to be dishonest just to be a normal tween or teenager, and from what I've seen that deceit only increased over the years. We chose to not monitor their screen time or social media, and they never gave us cause to regret that, partly, I think, because they did not want to betray our trust and we never put them in a position of having to hide it from us. Once you turn things into "forbidden fruit" it just makes them want it more.

Not saying everything has been prefect, far from it, but overall this strategy worked for us with these particular kids.

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Sounds like the similar school of thought we have employed. Good idea on the age requirement for certain apps. I was trying to talk to my wife about the forbidden fruit effect which is something I have seen play out into slow moving train wrecks.

Bodywhomper - do you have a link to that journal article?

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Originally Posted by Dromond

Talk to me about traveling with an almost two year old. Ours has gotten into a pretty good spot with sleeping in the crib at night and naptime and doesn’t really fight it, which she did for a time. However we are staying at friend’s house for the night and when I tried to put her in the pack n play she was not having it. I laid her down on the bed next to me and she fell asleep quickly saying “night night” which is always so cute. The only time she sleeps next to us is when camping, but we’ve got a two week road trip through the French alps coming up and I’m a little dubious of what the sleep schedule is going to be like. She naps for 2-3 hours at home but usually only 45 minutes if I’m the car during the day. I’m excited for the trip other than a nervous about short naps, bedtime struggles, and inevitable motion sickness vomiting in the rental car. (I’m padding that back seat with towels.) we’ve traveled with her a lot and in general it’s a good experience, but this is the longest trip since she was four months old, back when she slept half of the day in the carrier or car!

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Have had awesome successs with a Slumberpod. Little pricey, but you can find them on craigslist/marketplace. My little guy had a really hard time sleeping in the pack and play in the same room as me, despite sleeping great at home.

Started using the slumberpod, along with his normal white noise, stuffed animal as at home, and he does great. Also key to keep as much of the routine around sleep the same, within reason.

Our 9 year old has a Gizmo watch. It's pretty much a glorified pager. He can make calls and send messages to numbers we authorize and we're able to restrict and set active times for pretty much every feature on the watch. For us, it serves as a GPS tracker so he can be pretty much free range in the neighborhood without us having to worry about it too much.

He and his sister also have Android Tablets and Chromebooks for school. If you're not familiar with it, Googles native Family Link app allows you to monitor/restrict/permit and set time limits on every app or feature on the device. It's pretty handy and I can approve or deny anything remotely.

I appreciate the perspective on social media and devices. I'm scared shitless about how to appropriately handle this when the time comes.

^ This is stuff I've been mulling over for a while now, good to read some other perspectives. We're not quite there yet, but we kind of are in a way, because the allure of the screen isn't lost on toddlers either.

I've been doing a lot of bike rides with the kids this summer, it's good veg-out time for me and entertaining for them--really an enjoyable way to pass the time together. I'm not looking forward to putting the bike away for the winter season this year.

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Nice collection of rock auto magnets

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Originally Posted by Touring_Sedan

I appreciate the perspective on social media and devices. I'm scared shitless about how to appropriately handle this when the time comes.

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my daughter is 12 and I don't have a fucking clue. Her mom does have control over her phone, so we keep her off social media (much to her chagrin) but we have virtually no control over shit like youtube. And she has a chrombeook from school that is surprisingly not very locked down re youtube and google and web browsing, and we have no control over that.

We do our best in controlling this stuff, and also rely on having raised a good kid with (usually) good judgment. But goddam...

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Originally Posted by Touring_Sedan

<snip> I'm scared shitless

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No you're not. That's me. :mad:

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Originally Posted by basinbeater

Nice collection of rock auto magnets

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Tell them you drive a jeep without telling them you drive a jeep [emoji28]

I bought a pull behind bike trailer and a helmet for the little one, but she’s still too little for it. Luckily, the little trailer has skis, so hopefully we’ll get a chance to use it some this winter.

I try and take her out for one longish adventure a week. She can go about 2.5 to 3 hours between bottles, so we usually stop half way and I feed her.

Today we bumped down a mountain bike trail in her jogging stroller. Seemed a little much at times. I’m going to have to dial it back a little. I get bored walking around the neighborhood for the upteenth time.

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Originally Posted by lowsparkco

I bought a pull behind bike trailer and a helmet for the little one, but she’s still too little for it. Luckily, the little trailer has skis, so hopefully we’ll get a chance to use it some this winter.

I try and take her out for one longish adventure a week. She can go about 2.5 to 3 hours between bottles, so we usually stop half way and I feed her.

Today we bumped down a mountain bike trail in her jogging stroller. Seemed a little much at times. I’m going to have to dial it back a little. I get bored walking around the neighborhood for the upteenth time.

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If it takes skiis, it's likely a Thule Chariot. They have a couple of "adapters" for little ones.

https://www.thule.com/en-us/bike-tra...ing-_-20201504

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https://www.thule.com/en-us/bike-tra...ter-_-20201517

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Originally Posted by lowsparkco

I bought a pull behind bike trailer and a helmet for the little one, but she’s still too little for it. Luckily, the little trailer has skis, so hopefully we’ll get a chance to use it some this winter.

I try and take her out for one longish adventure a week. She can go about 2.5 to 3 hours between bottles, so we usually stop half way and I feed her.

Today we bumped down a mountain bike trail in her jogging stroller. Seemed a little much at times. I’m going to have to dial it back a little. I get bored walking around the neighborhood for the upteenth time.

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How old? Bumps are literally the biggest challenge to manage before they are 2.5 ish or so … I had my kids on steer tube mounted harness seats from the age of 8 months (road only at that age, trail starting around 14 months) and quickly could see how rapid braking or small but harsh bumps would jerk their heads forward. It’s pretty jarring to watch. However, having them up in front of me allowed me to see how much core and neck strength they did have, and how to really delicately manage bumps, braking, and - once they upgraded to the top tube seats like the Shotgun and Macride - how quickly we could push over the tops of rollers and G outs. You can’t see that in the pull behind! The other problem is a lot of trailers don’t have enough head clearance for a helmet and it pushes the kids head forward, especially if they are short.

I recommend looking into the Kazam iBert for the bike. The mount isn’t super convenient, but it’s pretty affordable for a 3 point harness seat that works with slack MTB forks or road bikes alike (needs 20mm of free steer tube though, and doesn’t work well with low or zero rise flat bars).

Skiing is a different story since it’s so smooth. I love pulling my kids using a 84mm underfoot waxless 3 pin setup and plastic hard boot. I could drop a knee going down groomed XC or snowy roads with 2 kids in the thing. We could do a 2 hour nap while I do laps to the far end of the XC trails while mom is out skiing on her own or with the older kid! And the Thule is a lot more protected from the elements when it’s nuking out than the Osprey Pack even with the rain cover on it.

The Thule also does surprisingly well when trailbreaking because the ski tips are so flexy, but in more than 10”of snow it can be tough because the chassis starts to drag. Though this coming winter I won’t allow both of my kids in the trailer on skis as the total weight will be about 100 lbs (rough guess, kids are currently 34 and 29 lbs naked, add weight for the trailer, clothes, water, snacks, blankets, etc) and since I only weigh 140 lbs I’m about done with that! Good thing the 4.5 year old loves XC and this winter I am upgrading her from 70 cm strap on skis to real 100 cm skis with NNN bindings.

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Originally Posted by SchralphMacchio

How old? Bumps are literally the biggest challenge to manage before they are 2.5 ish or so … I had my kids on steer tube mounted harness seats from the age of 8 months (road only at that age, trail starting around 14 months) and quickly could see how rapid braking or small but harsh bumps would jerk their heads forward. It’s pretty jarring to watch. However, having them up in front of me allowed me to see how much core and neck strength they did have, and how to really delicately manage bumps, braking, and - once they upgraded to the top tube seats like the Shotgun and Macride - how quickly we could push over the tops of rollers and G outs. You can’t see that in the pull behind! The other problem is a lot of trailers don’t have enough head clearance for a helmet and it pushes the kids head forward, especially if they are short.

I recommend looking into the Kazam iBert for the bike. The mount isn’t super convenient, but it’s pretty affordable for a 3 point harness seat that works with slack MTB forks or road bikes alike (needs 20mm of free steer tube though, and doesn’t work well with low or zero rise flat bars).

Skiing is a different story since it’s so smooth. I love pulling my kids using a 84mm underfoot waxless 3 pin setup and plastic hard boot. I could drop a knee going down groomed XC or snowy roads with 2 kids in the thing. We could do a 2 hour nap while I do laps to the far end of the XC trails while mom is out skiing on her own or with the older kid! And the Thule is a lot more protected from the elements when it’s nuking out than the Osprey Pack even with the rain cover on it.

The Thule also does surprisingly well when trailbreaking because the ski tips are so flexy, but in more than 10”of snow it can be tough because the chassis starts to drag. Though this coming winter I won’t allow both of my kids in the trailer on skis as the total weight will be about 100 lbs (rough guess, kids are currently 34 and 29 lbs naked, add weight for the trailer, clothes, water, snacks, blankets, etc) and since I only weigh 140 lbs I’m about done with that! Good thing the 4.5 year old loves XC and this winter I am upgrading her from 70 cm strap on skis to real 100 cm skis with NNN bindings.

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You mean you don't enjoy dragging 130lbs of Chariot dead weight, whining and chattering behind you for 6mi uphill at 10-11k with fresh snow and creek crossings??? :fmicon:

Attachment 469726

It was a great birthday but it was a lot of work. We love the Chariot but it's best for dragging them around the golf course on classic gear and letting them get out for a little classic practice themselves.

Personally I'd be more worried about video games than social media. I did not have to worry about gaming with two girls, we never even had a gaming console, but gaming seems more isolating and addictive to me. Social media OTOH has proven to be relatively harmless. It's just how kids interact these days, and witholding it after age 13 seems pointless if not actually stunting to me. And apps like TikTok are pretty creative. My kids don't make many TikTok videos but when they do the content is quite hilarious. It's impressive, I think.

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Originally Posted by alpinevibes

You mean you don't enjoy dragging 130lbs of Chariot dead weight, whining and chattering behind you for 6mi uphill at 10-11k with fresh snow and creek crossings??? :fmicon:

Attachment 469726

It was a great birthday but it was a lot of work. We love the Chariot but it's best for dragging them around the golf course on classic gear and letting them get out for a little classic practice themselves.

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This is about when I said no more! We don’t have 11k elevations here but this is about 6k above where I live!
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Originally Posted by present tense

Bodywhomper - do you have a link to that journal article?

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I’m pretty sure this is the paper: https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jam...rticle/2737909

It looks like there’s been a lot more research published in the post count of years.

In HS, my eldest often played video games while using discord for audio with friends. Sometimes they’d be playing together, like Minecraft. Sometimes they’d be playing separate things, but chatting about whatever. The second scenario reminded me of “parallel play” of toddlers.

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Originally Posted by yeahman

Social media OTOH has proven to be relatively harmless. It's just how kids interact these days, and witholding it after age 13 seems pointless if not actually stunting to me.

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The US Surgeon General just came out this spring and said the research shows exactly the opposite:

"Teens who use social media for more than three hours a day face double the risk of depression and anxiety symptoms, which is particularly concerning given that the average amount of time that kids use social media is 3 1/2 hours a day," the Surgeon General Dr. Vivek Murthy told Morning Edition host Steve Inskeep.

According to the advisory, 95% of teenagers ages 13-17 say they use a social media app, and more than a third say they use it "almost constantly." The Social Media and Youth Mental Health advisory says social media can perpetuate "body dissatisfaction, disordered eating behaviors, social comparison, and low self-esteem, especially among adolescent girls."


The key here being the duration of use, which is something parents can have an impact on.

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Originally Posted by oldnew_guy

The US Surgeon General just came out this spring and said the research shows exactly the opposite:

"Teens who use social media for more than three hours a day face double the risk of depression and anxiety symptoms, which is particularly concerning given that the average amount of time that kids use social media is 3 1/2 hours a day," the Surgeon General Dr. Vivek Murthy told Morning Edition host Steve Inskeep.

According to the advisory, 95% of teenagers ages 13-17 say they use a social media app, and more than a third say they use it "almost constantly." The Social Media and Youth Mental Health advisory says social media can perpetuate "body dissatisfaction, disordered eating behaviors, social comparison, and low self-esteem, especially among adolescent girls."


The key here being the duration of use, which is something parents can have an impact on.

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Whenever I try to show my kids something like this they just laugh.

[QUOTE=yeahman;6925545]Whenever I try to show my kids something like this they just laugh.[/Q

I don't even know what the point of this reply was.

I believe that it starts with the AI generated individualized directed advertising and “suggested” accts to follow.

For my oldest, most suggestions to him are about cats. His friend-girls get a very different feed. Interacting between friends on IG is mostly via their messaging system, often in large group messages.

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Originally Posted by Touring_Sedan

Our 9 year old has a Gizmo watch. It's pretty much a glorified pager. He can make calls and send messages to numbers we authorize and we're able to restrict and set active times for pretty much every feature on the watch. For us, it serves as a GPS tracker so he can be pretty much free range in the neighborhood without us having to worry about it too much.

He and his sister also have Android Tablets and Chromebooks for school. If you're not familiar with it, Googles native Family Link app allows you to monitor/restrict/permit and set time limits on every app or feature on the device. It's pretty handy and I can approve or deny anything remotely.

I appreciate the perspective on social media and devices. I'm scared shitless about how to appropriately handle this when the time comes.

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I hadn't heard of Gizmo watches. Those are interesting. We're starting to let our 7 year old have a bit more autonomy, so something like that might be good in the next few years as he ranges further on his own, but is too young for an actual phone.

Minutes after I post the last message about giving him increased autonomy I get a call that my son has fallen on the playground and hit his head on a drainage grate. Its bleeding all over. It's now five hour later and after a visit to two urgent cares and an ER, he has two staples in his head. Quite the afternoon.

Dang. Concussed?

The big girl had her first days of school.
Exiciting times for everyone. [emoji3]
Attachment 469799

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Originally Posted by present tense

Maybe sliding slightly off topic, oldest has started 6th grade, had his first after school dance and I’m learning he’s been asking for digits and uses his iPad to text his new gal pals. Seems mostly innocent and what I did too back in the day but passing notes and using land lines - risking that her dad would pick up and deny the call.

Man it’s so weird. Happy the little dude is testing the waters but no idea how to manage the etiquette side of things. I know there’s mags out there that have managed the transition, what am I missing, what should I worry about, I have access to his iPad and can check his texts, but feel a little creepy doing that?!? Man, so fucking weird, things are so different yet slightly somehow still the same as they were.

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What did your parents do? We’re they nosy? Trust your parenting, he might stumble but that’s all part of life. Also, he’s 12 and can’t get in that much trouble. This is all assuming that you’ve done a decent job parenting


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