The FIFTY

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Originally Posted by MagnificentUnicorn

I can’t find a link but there is a study on this, maybe more. The efficiency comes from your pedal stroke technique and the effectiveness of the up stroke from being clicked or strapped in was debunked too. It’s all about turning smooth circles.

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Here's a good study that looked at small numbers of elite and non-elite cyclists and compared all the physiology and mechanical things you might be interested in. Basically no difference in anything, among anyone.
https://sci-hub.se/10.1055/s-2008-1038374

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Originally Posted by yeahman

I'd be curious to know if Michelle has done much bike touring before. I believe Cody said this was his first time, so doing 1,000 miles pulling a trailer is pretty insane. No surprise his body was broken down by the end. As Michelle talked about near the end, you reach a point where you just hope you're not doing permanent damage to your body. Agree that this could be mental training for climbs like St. Elias, because however hard that mountain turns out to be, at least it won't require a 1,000 mile bike tour. :)

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Don't know about bike touring, per se, but I do know Michelle does some long ass road rides on the regular.

Super lame about the lack of a video permit for Mt. Ranier. Anyway, well done you two - that's some hardcore shit.

speaking of bike/climb/ski sufferfests... my pal did something in the same vein two years ago... a true PNW madman.
https://fastestknowntime.com/fkt/ric...-wa-2018-07-19

Hey Cody!

My girl was super stoked on the snow safety class she had with you and Elyse yesterday. Thanks for taking the time to pass it on.

Cody switched out of the flats and went clipless after a couple days.

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Originally Posted by Mofro261

Hey Cody!

My girl was super stoked on the snow safety class she had with you and Elyse yesterday. Thanks for taking the time to pass it on.

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Oh hell yeah. That looks like a great program.

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Originally Posted by plugboots

Cody switched out of the flats and went clipless after a couple days.

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Makes sense. In response to previous comments regarding clipless pedals, I think the biggest gains in efficiency come from better power transfer and better foot support due to stiffer soles, and a foot/pedal interfaced that is fixed in two planes. Most clipless pedals do offer some degrees of rotational freedom or float. If clipless pedals wrecked your knees and didn't offer efficiency gains, they wouldn't be used by 100% of the pro peloton. But Cody's not popping off 2000W sprints you say, doesn't have a 500W FTP you say. Doesn't matter, those efficiency gains are available for everyone and in my opinion are actually more pronounced at the lower end of the experience spectrum as they force better foot position, possibly encourage better pedaling technique, and cause less fatigue in your feet.

That is all experiential so take it or leave it. If you don't have your fit setup correctly you're going to wreck your knees regardless of your pedal choice.

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Originally Posted by waveshello

Makes sense. In response to previous comments regarding clipless pedals, I think the biggest gains in efficiency come from better power transfer and better foot support due to stiffer soles, and a foot/pedal interfaced that is fixed in two planes. Most clipless pedals do offer some degrees of rotational freedom or float. If clipless pedals wrecked your knees and didn't offer efficiency gains, they wouldn't be used by 100% of the pro peloton. But Cody's not popping off 2000W sprints you say, doesn't have a 500W FTP you say. Doesn't matter, those efficiency gains are available for everyone and in my opinion are actually more pronounced at the lower end of the experience spectrum as they force better foot position, possibly encourage better pedaling technique, and cause less fatigue in your feet.

That is all experiential so take it or leave it. If you don't have your fit setup correctly you're going to wreck your knees regardless of your pedal choice.

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We could take your word for it or we could read the study linked above that says there is no difference.


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Eric O from ttips used to ride from the Bay Area to the east side in the spring, park his bike at a trailhead, do a spring tour, exit at a different trailhead, walk/hitchhike (with gear) back to his bike, and ride back home.

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Originally Posted by bodywhomper

Eric O from ttips used to ride from the Bay Area to the east side in the spring, park his bike at a trailhead, do a spring tour, exit at a different trailhead, walk/hitchhike (with gear) back to his bike, and ride back home.

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One of my favorite ski/bike videos:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOSwosFt_rI

*Not to hijack from the Cody, but I'm sure he appreciates this video too.

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Originally Posted by MagnificentUnicorn

We could take your word for it or we could read the study linked above that says there is no difference.


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Sure. But it doesn't say there's no difference, it actually acknowledges that there will be a difference under certain conditions.

I am not totally surprised at the results of the study--they removed many of the variables/conditions that make clipless pedals desirable (study acknowledges) in order to keep the scope of the study manageable. No maximal efforts, no long efforts (that's subjective), no terrain profile, no road surface variation, no turns, no bike handling input, no power spikes. We don't know what kind of flat pedals were used, or what kind of shoes were used (study acknowledges). We don't know if foot position on the pedals was a variable.

So yeah, it answers the question that can be answered, but it doesn't answer all the questions. My experience is that clipless pedals reduce fatigue, which has an effect on biomechanical efficiency and certainly has an effect on perceived effort and efficiency.

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^^^ Not to mention like in Cody‘s case on Rt 97 in Oregon, if you’ve got some semi passing within a couple feet of you, you sure as hell don’t want your stupid shoe coming off the pedal and creating an issue.

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Originally Posted by waveshello

Sure. But it doesn't say there's no difference, it actually acknowledges that there will be a difference under certain conditions.

I am not totally surprised at the results of the study--they removed many of the variables/conditions that make clipless pedals desirable (study acknowledges) in order to keep the scope of the study manageable. No maximal efforts, no long efforts (that's subjective), no terrain profile, no road surface variation, no turns, no bike handling input, no power spikes. We don't know what kind of flat pedals were used, or what kind of shoes were used (study acknowledges). We don't know if foot position on the pedals was a variable.

So yeah, it answers the question that can be answered, but it doesn't answer all the questions. My experience is that clipless pedals reduce fatigue, which has an effect on biomechanical efficiency and certainly has an effect on perceived effort and efficiency.

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All that, plus, if you look at the data in Table 2 O2 uptake was 3% higher and net efficiency was 2% lower with flats vs clips in the elite group. It didn't rise to p <0.05 significance so they said "no difference," but there was a difference. When you're racing or riding 1,000 miles towing a 100 lb trailer a 2-3% gain is non-trivial.

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Originally Posted by Dantheman

All that, plus, if you look at the data in Table 2 O2 uptake was 3% higher and net efficiency was 2% lower with flats vs clips in the elite group. It didn't rise to p <0.05 significance so they said "no difference," but there was a difference. When you're racing or riding 1,000 miles towing a 100 lb trailer a 2-3% gain is non-trivial.

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That is absolutely not how statistical significance tests work.

There's no difference.

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Originally Posted by ptavv

There's no difference.

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You got it. In a controlled laboratory environment.

Ride what works for you.

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Originally Posted by plugboots

^^^ Not to mention like in Cody‘s case on Rt 97 in Oregon, if you’ve got some semi passing within a couple feet of you, you sure as hell don’t want your stupid shoe coming off the pedal and creating an issue.

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Your shoes don't come off flats like you think they do. That's as bad as me thinking your feet won't come out of clipless when you need them to.

Please head to Empty Beer for the Flats vs Clipless arguments. NERDS!

I just woke from an all evening nap. 2am. What to do.

I just finished watching "The mountain why"

I see all the others have all the technical bla bla covered.
I have only done small pieces of what you Michelle and crew accomplished.

I really enjoyed watching this short film.
I was both entertained and impressed at the accomplishment.
FYI. I watched it with my You tube app on my TV. Popped up under latest videos.

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Originally Posted by I've seen black diamonds!

I enjoyed it

Wow. Cody looked like he'd aged 10 years at the end

Alka, what was the recovery like? How long did you take it easy afterward?

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Somehow just came across this thread...just catching up. Easily took a month to recover. I thought we were gonna be so strong from MTB'ing this summer, instead was so worked that I couldn't do shit for a month and lost all fitness we had gained from the trip.

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Originally Posted by doebedoe

I'd guess that part of this was about getting used to operating at the limits of mental and physical endurance. Some of the lines Cody has left to ski are likely probably going to require pushing that envelope in environments with much more objective danger.

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To those questioning why would we do this, first, yes, this above. You can't be prepared for the absolute hardest thing you may ever do without training for it. I always tell people the best way to overcome fear is by baby-stepping your way closer to the thing that you fear. For me, the hardest, most demanding lines are still out there and to do something like this helps me mentally prepare for when / if shit gets hard, goes sideways in the future. The second answer is...I don't know. That's the point of the movie. I don't know why I'm drawn to this stuff, don't know why something so challenging baits me in, I seriously don't know and hence, the point of the film.

Such an inspiration! I hope to run into you one day on the trail. Gluten free beers are on me!

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Originally Posted by Alkasquawlik

To those questioning why would we do this, first, yes, this above. You can't be prepared for the absolute hardest thing you may ever do without training for it. I always tell people the best way to overcome fear is by baby-stepping your way closer to the thing that you fear. For me, the hardest, most demanding lines are still out there and to do something like this helps me mentally prepare for when / if shit gets hard, goes sideways in the future. The second answer is...I don't know. That's the point of the movie. I don't know why I'm drawn to this stuff, don't know why something so challenging baits me in, I seriously don't know and hence, the point of the film.

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It's awesome that you are out there exploring and doing new things, like this adventure.

But seriously, I hope you got your fill of fully loaded road bike touring for a long time. That shit is grueling and downright dangerous! [emoji12]

Upside of fully loaded touring is that when you pack a bike and a couple small bags, fly to Europe, and credit card tour through wine country you realize just how good life is.

I really appreciate the "I just don't fucking know" aspect. The amount of ski/outdoor media that tries to make deep meaningfulness out of these pursuits bores me. Sometimes we just do shit because we need/want to and can't find a reason not to.

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Originally Posted by doebedoe

I really appreciate the "I just don't fucking know" aspect. The amount of ski/outdoor media that tries to make deep meaningfulness out of these pursuits bores me. Sometimes we just do shit because we need/want to and can't find a reason not to.

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Right? Who the fuck cares why we go skiing, be it for 2 laps or for a month long suffer-fest. Because it's awesome and because we can should be all the reasons we need.
I'm sure I could dig in and come up with some elaborate deeper meaning for my actions but why bother? Nobody would care. And nobody should care why Cody does what he does, he's obviously having a grand old time, what else is there to it?

Wife and I just watched Mountain Why today. Awesome little film and way to push your limits. Love the endurance aspect and hope to see more in the future!