ON3P SKIS Discussion

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Originally Posted by beeeom

I need to revise my statement as I had really only skied the 2025 BG's in pow and chopped up pow. They are great in these conditions. They feel like the old goats.

But Today I skied the 2025's back to back with my old bearpaws. Conditions were variable wetter crud and some refrozen rain crust with 10cm of fresh heavier pow on top. What I would describe as classic conditions for BG's to dominate.

The new goats were super locked in. It was hooky snow for sure but The tails were hooking excessively and I just couldn't flow well. My legs were burning I was getting manhandled by the skis. Pretty frustrating as I felt like these conditions are where BG's should truly shine.

Then I switch over to my ol' faithful bearpaws - Same length and similar mount. After about 7 turns to figure them out again it clicked. They were so bloody loose that I could do any turn shape on demand. Legs felt fresh and I was skiing waaaaay better. Zero hook in the tails and seemed to be able to hold an edge better on the firmer bits. I seriously went from punter to pro by switching back to the OG goats.

Maybe the new Goats need a serious detune, but I have a sneaking suspicion that they are not on par with the bearpaws in manky variable conditions, which in my mind are what the ski is all about. Any fat heavy ski is good in pow, but BG's are the ski that turns mank into pow. For me, they missed the mark on the latest version... Better keep hoarding I guess...

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Unfortunately, that's what I was afraid of. The tail is so different now, it just isn't the same ski. For the Rockies/Wasatch, it still works as a great deep day ski. For the PNW, it misses the mark. It's the tradeoff ON3P knowingly made, and that's OK. The OG fans just need to keep hoarding and find something new to replace it eventually.

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What skis do well in rain crust on mank? Just curious

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Originally Posted by XavierD;[emoji[emoji6[emoji640

[emoji638]][emoji640][emoji639]][emoji637][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji639]][emoji639][emoji640][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji639]][emoji637]]What skis do well in rain crust on mank? Just curious

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Protest….. kill it actually.
Also someone keeps using “tails hooky” when they actually mean locked in or won’t release.

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Originally Posted by XavierD

What skis do well in rain crust on mank? Just curious

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2013 Billy Goats

Lol. Not even in the same class as a protest, powder boards, lotus 138 in those conditions.


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Originally Posted by beeeom

2013 Billy Goats

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Ski your 2025 BGs for 12 years and they might be similar. Your bear claws are softer now with a less supportive tail than they were in 2013

I’ve skied every iteration of the BG, and was the first person to ski what would become the 191 Bear Claws. They all sucked in breakable rain crust. Were they better than many of the other early generation powder skis? Yes, but they still weren’t amazing. The 186 2025 is pretty much the same ski but the tips are a little easier to break into a turn.

IMO there is a decent amount of misplaced nostalgia for 2010-2014 skis. Just about all skis are better now than they were 10 years ago. But skis in 2013 were drastically better than anything in 2009, and even more so than skis in 2004. Those five years leading into to 2013 were so revolutionary in ski progression that it was genuinely possible to become a much better skier by getting something new. The change has been significantly less pronounced since then.

I still think the most fundamentally changing ski experience for me was hoping on the first generation Cochise, and to a similar extent Bodacious. The current Rustler 11 is a better skier than either of those, but didn’t change how I could ski in the same way.

Anyway, rain crust is an interesting thing to get caught up in with a ski that seems to be meeting every other expectation.

YMMV.

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Originally Posted by kid-kapow

skiing on ON3Ps that is actually relatable:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lp9n-hnfCL0

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Bumping this on to the next page for a rad film to fill an evening with some stoke.

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Originally Posted by Doremite

FR110s have a generous range of mount options. Go -10.5 if you dig a more directional feel.

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Funny enough, my shop was unable to mount my new-to-me BG118s on the line (-9.7 as marked) and they didn’t call to ask if I wanted to go forward or back, so I am at -10.5. Which is now the most rearward mount of all my skis. I wonder how they will work there!

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Originally Posted by jacob_dbu

I'd say the best idea is to keep the amount of tip in front of you similar to other semi-progressive skis mounted at -7/-8. Also mount up a low delta binding. If you're pitched too far forward and don't have enough tip in front of you it can be very awkward. It very much depends on your boot/binding setup. The more upright you are the more fine it is to ski it at rec.

Personally I'll probably mount up my 186 Jeff 118s at -1cm.

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Interesting that you mention this, as I had a similar issue on my Wood110s. On the line with a 2mm delta binding and loved them. Forward +0.8mm with a 5mm delta binding and hated them. Felt way over my tips and struggled to get balanced. Then I shimmed the toe to get back to a ~2mm delta and I’m loving them again at +0.8 … now very quick and balanced in the air but I can’t finish my carves as well or power through wet mush pockets quite as confidently, but man I can pivot and slash in powder pretty fast now. I had no idea that delta would make such a huge difference. Seems like if I had to go with a high delta binding then I would go behind the line -1.

I’m now also on the fence about which mount point I like better for the WD110. I think in an ideal world I would split the difference at +0.4mm which just seems insane to be talking in such small increments.

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Originally Posted by XavierD

Ski your 2025 BGs for 12 years and they might be similar. Your bear claws are softer now with a less supportive tail than they were in 2013

I’ve skied every iteration of the BG, and was the first person to ski what would become the 191 Bear Claws. They all sucked in breakable rain crust. Were they better than many of the other early generation powder skis? Yes, but they still weren’t amazing. The 186 2025 is pretty much the same ski but the tips are a little easier to break into a turn.

IMO there is a decent amount of misplaced nostalgia for 2010-2014 skis. Just about all skis are better now than they were 10 years ago. But skis in 2013 were drastically better than anything in 2009, and even more so than skis in 2004. Those five years leading into to 2013 were so revolutionary in ski progression that it was genuinely possible to become a much better skier by getting something new. The change has been significantly less pronounced since then.

I still think the most fundamentally changing ski experience for me was hoping on the first generation Cochise, and to a similar extent Bodacious. The current Rustler 11 is a better skier than either of those, but didn’t change how I could ski in the same way.

Anyway, rain crust is an interesting thing to get caught up in with a ski that seems to be meeting every other expectation.

YMMV.

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For me it wasn't rain crust. It was heavy, PNW powder. The difference was jarring. This was the first year after Asym, so there was less distance between my 2014 and the new ski. Tried a new tune and detuned like crazy. The shape just didn't work the same for me,my style and where I ski. I also fully recognize I'm old and nostalgic for my glory days.

I know your history with the ski and definitely weigh your take heavily. I have heard good things about the 187/186 versions of the newer versions. I have yet to hear anything positive on the longer length. When people start talking about how amazing the long length is, I'll be paying attention.

Yeah, the post pandemic 192 was definitely jarring and got that way for a variety of reasons. Got a little better mounted back a bit.
End of the day it was too much super goat and the tip of the ski and side cut weren’t really lined up like the old 191 were. I’ve skied the new 191 and it’s definitely less grabby and brutal than the 192, but prefer the 186 for everyday resort skiing.

Current 186 is comparable to pre-asym 191s, and the 191 (and 192) are more akin to the old 193 SG.

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Originally Posted by XavierD

Ski your 2025 BGs for 12 years and they might be similar. Your bear claws are softer now with a less supportive tail than they were in 2013

I’ve skied every iteration of the BG, and was the first person to ski what would become the 191 Bear Claws. They all sucked in breakable rain crust. Were they better than many of the other early generation powder skis? Yes, but they still weren’t amazing. The 186 2025 is pretty much the same ski but the tips are a little easier to break into a turn.

IMO there is a decent amount of misplaced nostalgia for 2010-2014 skis. Just about all skis are better now than they were 10 years ago. But skis in 2013 were drastically better than anything in 2009, and even more so than skis in 2004. Those five years leading into to 2013 were so revolutionary in ski progression that it was genuinely possible to become a much better skier by getting something new. The change has been significantly less pronounced since then.

I still think the most fundamentally changing ski experience for me was hoping on the first generation Cochise, and to a similar extent Bodacious. The current Rustler 11 is a better skier than either of those, but didn’t change how I could ski in the same way.

Anyway, rain crust is an interesting thing to get caught up in with a ski that seems to be meeting every other expectation.

YMMV.

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Youre very fixated on the term "rain crust". Yes there were some crusty bits underneath, but overall it was 10cms of hot pow on a variety of surfaces mostly soft but with some hard bits. Exactly where a goat should dominate. My asyms never hooked like this and I had them since they were freshies, so I didn't really buy the "bagged out" argument. Maybe a savage detune will help, but in the A-B comparison today, the OG's reign supreme by quite a margin...

These are the 186's I'm comparing btw

I don't want to be a dumbfuck for stating the obvious, but if the dimensions are as close as the media copy suggests, and the flex isnt hugely different (maybe it is, IDK) then the difference in a decades worth of wear on the tail edges may be a big factor in the looseness. I have made my more tech oriented friends litterally cringe when I get the file out though, so maybe I've got a real shit take there and I'm just ruining good skis, lol.

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Originally Posted by Going Coastal

I don't want to be a dumbfuck for stating the obvious, but if the dimensions are as close as the media copy suggests, and the flex isnt hugely different (maybe it is, IDK) then the difference in a decades worth of wear on the tail edges may be a big factor in the looseness. I have made my more tech oriented friends litterally cringe when I get the file out though, so maybe I've got a real shit take there and I'm just ruining good skis, lol.

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Ya an aggro file session is definitely the next step. I'm not giving up on em yet!

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Originally Posted by beeeom

Ya an aggro file session is definitely the next step. I'm not giving up on em yet!

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Just did an aggro tail filing session on my 2024/25 BGs and will be trying them out again this week when the snow comes. Flat bar revealed bases are flat and edges are all good at 1/1. Will bring my Wildcat 108s and a pocket gummy stone as backups. Really hope I can figure 'em out so I don't have to flip 'em and buy more skis.

Yeah I'm probably gonna sell these things. If anyone is interested in used (1 day) 2024-25 Billy Goats 186cm with a custom older-version topsheet, lemme know. I'm gonna throw these things on marketplace I guess. Attachment 508435

they're mounted for 294 bsl with pivots right now - the shop for some reason screwed the heel pressure arms all the way in when mounting, so they have the full range of adjustment only on the larger side. can't decide if i wanna sell 'em flat or with bindings. and no idea on pricing. just putting out feelers.

I am kinda puzzled by your experience of BGs. I've skied pre-asyms ( my favorite), asyms in both 179 and 184 (prefer the longer length) and post asyms 118 181s. They were all dead easy to ski across most snow conditions, even more so when tuned to my preferences. Variable and difficult snow is where they excel imho. I've not skied the current BGs, but would love to try them, they sound on point if Iggy's design goals have been met.

So the filing didn't get you what you were after?

I took my new BG108tours (186s, Vipecs today, will change the heels for tectons prior to their next outing) out on their first spin today. Perfect testing conditions - everything from semi deep blower through variable / heavily wind affected snow to wind scoured icey crusty shit snow. They performed just as advertised - predictably and ably.

So yes - BG108tours are still great. Ringing endorsement from me.

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Originally Posted by Jvhowube

Yeah I'm probably gonna sell these things. If anyone is interested in used (1 day) 2024-25 Billy Goats 186cm with a custom older-version topsheet, lemme know.

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Iggy once told me “Billy Goats take a few days to figure out…”.
I’d suggest putting two more days on them before bailing.

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Originally Posted by kid-kapow

So yes - BG108tours are still great. Ringing endorsement from me.

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Has anything changed on the 108s over the past few years, or are they the same as when they were re-introduced ~2020?

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Originally Posted by Marko888

Iggy once told me “Billy Goats take a few days to figure out…”.
I’d suggest putting two more days on them before bailing.

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I honestly think they might just be too much ski for me.

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Originally Posted by fleaches

Has anything changed on the 108s over the past few years, or are they the same as when they were re-introduced ~2020?

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some slight tweaks, but prob nothing revolutionary re:

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Originally Posted by on3p

The Billy Goat 108 Tour (AKA the SkinnyGoat) is a slimmed 108mm RES touring option for a wider range of uphill / downhill turn-farming. For 2025, we've extended our trademark RES (Reverse Elliptical Sidecut) into the tips for a less boxy, more drivable sidecut, capable of adjusting on-the-fly to pilot feedback. We also cinched some tail length, which allows for better mount proportions to drive into the forefoot, and improve responsiveness. We kept the flatter tail of its predecessor for strong tail support, and both lowered the camber and pushed its apex forward for a more predictable ride in the face of unpredictable terrain - the Billy Goat 108 Tour blurs the limits of line choice as far as you're willing to go.

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I bought a pair when they re-introduced them - they were awesome too - I just stupidly decided to sell them to get a pair in the resort layup.

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Originally Posted by Jvhowube

I honestly think they might just be too much ski for me.

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Too bad you’re ski tech messed up the mount or I would’ve grabbed yours

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Originally Posted by Jvhowube

the shop for some reason screwed the heel pressure arms all the way in when mounting, so they have the full range of adjustment only on the larger side.

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I wonder if this was a situation where they used a Pivot 2.0 jig on a 1.0 heelpiece?

Or they figured another buyer would have a boot bigger than an elf and did him a favor? Lol


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