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Interesting discussion re: defining a pin tail. I look to the difference between tip and tail as the larger radius skis I prefer often don't have huge differences in dimensions from the waist to the tail anyways. Very curious about skinny rx as it flirts with pintail dimensions but in a DD kind of way.
I think I got my definition of pintail from reading Blister gear so much a few years ago. I remember them having that same definition of a pintail. I know the type of pintail your talking about too. Like a K2 pontoon? Thats a true pintail.
I guess what I’m talking about is just minor pintail characteristics, that come about whenever the widest point of the tail is less than 10mm wider than the waist. Or close to that. The tails are to break free for me with these types of skis. I dont mind it on firm or ice even.
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But the skinny RX is 12mm wider at the tail than the waist. So not really a pintail. That 2mm should allow it to finish a turn and not wash out.
When start getting close to that 10mm, like 12, I start noticing the pintail characteristics a bit. I have heard others say this before as well.
As you said though, the Rx tails do not wash out. Not at all. But they do release in chunk easily when needed. The Rx feels less like a pintail than other skis around 12mm i’ve skied. Moment Governors I think are around 12mm, and feel more pintail. I like pintails and how they turn though, i’m pretty weird.
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Attachment 241989
Praxis RX 189, 4 Flex, Heavy Core, Carbon Fiber, Maple Veneer, Navajo topsheet
6 ft 170 lbs, got these to be a wide daily driver for Mammoth, the idea coming from wanting a more directional and flat tailed Bibby. Great shape, slight up turned tail, moderate tip rocker, not a lot ton of taper, good amount of effective edge. Very happy with how the shape looks. Hoping these would come in at around 2350 grams, but they came in a little lighter at 2275 grams. I think the veneer contributed to them being a bit lighter. Not worried though, because I'm confident these will punch above their weight.
Half the reason I wanted to get these was from how amazing the Navajo design looks on veneer. Unbelievable attention to detail! Keith even matches the veneer so it mirrors perfectly across the skis. Stunning. Perfect Western design, in both form and function. I have a set of mismatched blue/orange pivot/fks 18 that are going to be a perfect match for these.
Those are sick dude! Sounds like the vert eaters you were hoping for.
Nice dude!! Doesnt the shape look so good?Quote:
Originally Posted by jdadour
I’m getting those C&Ds boxed up for you tomorrow.
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Gov is 23m radius in a 186 vs 32 for the rx in 189. Gov is even still just 27 m radius in the 196. This tells you that your "12mm" is on a significantly tighter sidecut. Not surprising you find the effect to be much more noticeable. My suspicion is that moment crams roughly the same sidecut dims into ~10cm less sidecut length.Quote:
Originally Posted by Betelgeuse
No one property can or should be viewed in isolation. It's a great thing praxis do, giving the user all the useful numbers instead of just some of them.
I was on the 196 Moment bibby special, which was 23m in the 196 lol! They changed it for the last generation governor. I think tips went from 150 to 142mm.
Bibby specials (same as 1st gen gov) definitely carved a tighter turn, but the Rx is much looser. Rx is significantly stiffer too. 196 Governor is a big but fairly easy going ski, but not super loose. In certain situations, I thought the 196 governor was softer and more forgiving than 190 bibby pros..
I did notice that the Governors tails wash out a little more though. It wasnt loose, just as if they dont want to complete the turn as often as Rx will. They wernt as solid at the end of that turn. I dont mind it, but I prefer Rx on firm to the bibby special. However I can get down with the slip and slide a bit, and I like how it makes the 196s good in tight spots when needed. Rx can get looser when needed, but then will finish turns no problemo.
I’m going to try out the newest gen 196 Governor this year.
I know what your saying about not singling out a specific aspect of a skis design. It really is that the “total is more than the sum of it’s parts”.
Either way, Rx are the most versatile skis I have ever skied.
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Whoops nvm. 2012 Bibby Special was less than 12mm wider in the tail. I think it was 8 or 10. The blister gear review has me all confused on the dimensions. It says 116mm waist, 123mm tail, before the review. Then in the review, it says 118mm waist, 126mm tail, which sounds correct.
Anyways..
How versatile are the protests. I’m trying to come up with reasons why protests would be better than 3D powderboards for a super deep day ski.
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Praxis RX: Ages like a fine wine. #TeamRXQuote:
Originally Posted by flowing alpy
The ProTest is a kickass ski. The only place I find it doesn’t kick ass is very hard pack conditions, duh, and higher density cut up snow due to the girth underfoot causing a rough ride. I like narrower skis that slice through those conditions.Quote:
Originally Posted by Betelgeuse
It just fucking rules pow, dry cut up snow, slush, maritime pow, and corn. That’s right, it just kills corn. Also kills it when you get rain on new pow. That shit is difficult to ski a traditional ski but the ProTest makes it seems like fresh pow. As long as the snow is soft enough to get the very little sidecut to engage they are great. They are no long effective edge carver by any means so versatile is a misleading word.
In my mind they are a quiver ski. On days when the snow is chopped up with very firm patches to ice patches I much prefer either my Goats or my Lhasa Fats.
I want to find some cheap used powderboards. 2-3 years ago they were all over the place. Now I never see them.
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Closest thing to the PB I skied was the spatula. Loved them in pow,slush, corn but hated them everywhere else. The ProTest takes all the best things about the PB/ spat but makes it betterer for lift serve skiing.
You would need to 196 ProTest. Maybe even a +10 ProTest.
+10 protest sounds fun. Them or 200cm 3D PBs could be my ultimate powder weapon. I skied on 185 ARGs a few times, and didnt mind them on softer groomers and even some not-so-bad ice patches. They worked if you stay balanced. But ARGs had a small section of straight underfoot. Technically not full R/R, but as close as you can get. Praxis’ own description of the PBs says that they improved the hardpark performance over the years, leading me to believe they also included a straight section underfoot??
Armada ARGs were much beefier than JJs or Bubbas. They were fast skis for 185s. Fairly heavy(for an armada) too. They were so easy to ski though, they felt like rollerblades. The Donner parties were heavy too. I feel like manufacturers can go super beefy on R/R builds, since they ski like snowblades through pow and chunk.
I think next year Ima go with some 200cm heavy core #4 carbon, nylon, 3DPBs. 200cm snollerblades, that weigh 2650g/ski. The ultimate deep mank masterblasters! Im going to spend this season on skis under 120mm underfoot. So when I get on a super fatty the following season, I’m reawakened.
Anyone own or heard of builds of +10 protests or heavy core PBs?
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PB's are technically not R/R either.Attachment 242029
That's sidecut, not a straight section. These skis are @ least 10 yrs old. Gliding flats can be a real bitch, but that design is way more versatile than I thought they would be when I bought them. Fun skis!
Best truly fat powder ski I've ever been on though is still the BlueHouse Maven. This modelAttachment 242030.
I would love to hear thoughts on a +10 ProTest as well. I don’t think I’ve ever heard anyone mention owning them on here. Not sure I would need them as I have no issue with the standard ProTest when it comes to float.
I had the last year before 3D on the powderboards. Super fun in deep Pow. But as mentioned I was really not a fan of getting back to the lift on groomers or cat tracks. Granted I had boots that were too big, but felt like every little jar was transmitted and it killed my legs a little bit.
As mentioned, the little bit of camber and extra sidecut underfoot eliminates that problem, with very little downside.
If you put the PB and protest back to back their side it profiles are nearly identical
Never really had a problem on groomers. It's getting across flats that sucks. Gotta slightly put weight towards heels because the wide part of ski in front of bindings wants to plow, killing glide significantly. Shifting weight rearward to glide not only slays the legs, it pushes my toes into front of boots, thus slaying my poor digis too.
Biggest eye opener about PB's? 3D snow performance!
That’s how I felt about ARGs.Quote:
Originally Posted by tuco
Does Praxis even make the 200cm PBs anymore? They arent listed on the website for customization.
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Shit, hadn't noticed that. If I were to order new ones, that's the size I would want too.
Selling a couple pairs of praxis. Annual needz bike parts sale. Concepts are enduro carbon veneer(maple ambrosia) and the exp’s are ul carbon veneer(birds eye maple). Stock flex on both
https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/...dynafit-flylow
Dang!
Praxis are some of the few skis being built today that will be sought after as wall hangings in the future. Sex.
What model are the first pair?