Gravel/Bikepack nerds enter...

Lachlan rolled in 5th and is people's choice, only one to claim LeadBreckBoat. It was noted he didn't like the fact that he had a 'day off' and feels he would have performed better with no rest. What a stud. Keegan and Sofia....the power couple they are, are they sharing doping juice too? I kid, I kid. :biggrin:

Ride went well, I bested my time from last year but only by 4 minutes, lol. 100 miles, over 6K vert, just over 8 hours, not fast by any means, but, I also didn't start riding until mid-June b/c winter was so good and then illness, just recently tapered off of prednisone. I kept a tempo pace for over 65% of the ride. Overall I'm just glad to be able to do it and still got several PRs on many of the climbs. Black course next year if I can train properly!

The heat and winds from the south were brutal, no mechanicals. I'm for sure making more rice cakes for next year, only had 4, should have brought 8, was first time to do it and it worked well for my stomach, endurance and palate. By mile 85 I couldn't stomach any more gels. That climb behind wolverine to Chamois Butter aid cashed the last of my checks but a coke just before kept me through to the end. A solid day on the bike.

Glad to hear you had a great ride Skistack!

Here's the 2-track after the singletrack section in the Fetcher Ranch zone, old-school ranchers that open it up just for the racers, with Hahns Peak in the background. Only pic I took. 3 of my dogs ashes are up there, it's a special place.

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Originally Posted by BFD

What is the frame size on the Medium? Might of just helped me make a decsion

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56”

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Originally Posted by chaka

nice! congrats. how did Lachlan do? crazy coming straight over from winning Breck Epic.

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Lachlan sprinting against Stetina for 4th and Pete came around him.

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I'm new to bikepacking, have a Tallboy 4 that I want to get some bags for. I think I have the seat bag figured out - get something dropper compatible, with enough tire clearance for my XL frame. For a frame bag, it seems like custom is the best option, though there are a couple off the shelf options that make decent use of the triangle. The bar bag is what I'm not sure about. In the Bikepacking.com Tallboy 4 review, they mention that bar bags are tricky because the cables exit the head tube out the front, making it hard to strap a bag around the head tube. They mention the Rockgeitst Bar Jam. The Rogue Panda Canelo might work too, or others that have bars or spacers to move the bag away from the handle bar. Maybe the Bedrock Moab, although I'm worried about hitting my knees on that one. Any info. about putting bags on this bike would be much appreciated, especially the bar bag. Thanks.

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Originally Posted by Name Redacted

56”

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Not sure if they changed things up, but the 2023 Warbird seems to come in numerical sizes. 56CM seems like it could be a ML in their format.

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Looking at geometry, the seat tube would be 51.0cm and stand over is 770. The 54.5 is a big jump down in size at 47.5cm seat tube and 74.4 cm stand over.
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@BFD is citing a 50CM frame, so the medium warbird may be the right size at a 56cm but depending on reach and such, may need a true medium.

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Originally Posted by natebob

I'm new to bikepacking, have a Tallboy 4 that I want to get some bags for. I think I have the seat bag figured out - get something dropper compatible, with enough tire clearance for my XL frame. For a frame bag, it seems like custom is the best option, though there are a couple off the shelf options that make decent use of the triangle. The bar bag is what I'm not sure about. In the Bikepacking.com Tallboy 4 review, they mention that bar bags are tricky because the cables exit the head tube out the front, making it hard to strap a bag around the head tube. They mention the Rockgeitst Bar Jam. The Rogue Panda Canelo might work too, or others that have bars or spacers to move the bag away from the handle bar. Maybe the Bedrock Moab, although I'm worried about hitting my knees on that one. Any info. about putting bags on this bike would be much appreciated, especially the bar bag. Thanks.

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Definitely do your reading on seat bags and droppers. I was surprised at some of the things I learned. I grabbed a couple of the sliding spacers to go on the seat tube like you mention so that I do not scratch the post.

For your bar bag, you may also prefer a caddy where you can mount a dry bag or compression sack to the front. I have one of these set ups and it works well on mountain bikes. It also allows you to use different bags for different trips and is super secure. Revelate and Oveja Negra make them for cheap!

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Originally Posted by alfajores

Not sure if they changed things up, but the 2023 Warbird seems to come in numerical sizes. 56CM seems like it could be a ML in their format.

Attachment 468046

Looking at geometry, the seat tube would be 51.0cm and stand over is 770. The 54.5 is a big jump down in size at 47.5cm seat tube and 74.4 cm stand over.
Attachment 468047

@BFD is citing a 50CM frame, so the medium warbird may be the right size at a 56cm but depending on reach and such, may need a true medium.

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Yeah, mine is a L, or at least what I would consider on the smaller side for me. I usually ride an XL. 6'2" but I wanted something more comfortable and upright. The L is a 57.5 (as mentioned it is on the short, but comfortable side for me at 6'2"). Next size down fits my wife at 5'8". Of course many other alterations could be made to perfect the fit if we were looking to keep em.

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Originally Posted by Name Redacted

Yeah, mine is a L, or at least what I would consider on the smaller side for me. I usually ride an XL. 6'2" but I wanted something more comfortable and upright. The L is a 57.5 (as mentioned it is on the short, but comfortable side for me at 6'2"). Next size down fits my wife at 5'8". Of course many other alterations could be made to perfect the fit if we were looking to keep em.

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Word. That seems to fit what the geometry reads. Not that you were trying to sell BFD on anything, but I suspect BFD might want to stick with a 54.5 if he can find one. That would give him the most room to adjust stem and seat tube for fit. I would worry that the 56cm frame is at the margins of what might work, but who knows! Maybe it would work.

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Originally Posted by BFD

Friend has been planning a gravel ride in Slovenia and Croatia for awhile. Partner bailed last minute. I agreed to go. pretty short notice. Do not own a gravel bike. Debating what to do. Thinking about trying to rent in Venice but not having any luck finding two week rental on gravel bike. We are finishing in Udine so looked at bike shops there but not seeing rentals. So I have a Stumpjumper I was thinking about maybe trying to change out the wheels. Other thought is go with a Salsa Journeyer for around $1200. They have my size in Salida. Looked at Facebook Marketplace but not finding my size 50cm. I also think I would like the option of two chain rings. Open to any suggestions. Have 3 weeks to figure it out. Not really interested in spending more than $1200 as I don't mind riding the Stumpjumper around here and don't see myself going all in on the bikepacking.

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I have next to no experience with bikepacking and none with "gravel" so take this for what it's worth.

I did a bit of bikepacking in Croatia last year. We were on our Canfield Nimble Nine mountain bikes and I would say that if you plan any off road riding in Croatia a mountain bike would be the preferred option. Granted we weren't shy about routes with mountain bikes but most routes off the pavement were really rough with lots of sharp and slippery limestone. I would have hated to be on 40mm tires with a rigid fork. Didn't get to ride in Slovenia, there might be more soil there.

thank's for the advice. I think for sizing my first question to the seller should be how tall is your wife. I am not sure about the route. my partner has planned everything and they purchased a Stigmata with 40mm tires. So I guess we will find out how good the planning is.

It'll be sweet either way for sure. Croatia is awesome and real affordable. We were there in Sept too, not too hot but still warm enough to enjoy a swim. The weather was mostly nice but we did get a couple three day rain storms. Enjoy!

Crosspost from the EC thread:

If anyone wants to do a the Peacham (Vermont) Fall Fondo gravel grinder on 9/30, PM me because I can't use my entry.

It's sold out but I can transfer it for the entry fee ($80) through BikeReg.

50 miles, 6k of climbing, spectacular fall scenery and homemade apple pies at the halfway point The ride is supported and entry includes food and beer afterwards. I did it last year and had an absolute blast.

https://www.peachamfallfondo.com/

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Originally Posted by BFD

thank's for the advice. I think for sizing my first question to the seller should be how tall is your wife. I am not sure about the route. my partner has planned everything and they purchased a Stigmata with 40mm tires. So I guess we will find out how good the planning is.

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You may also want to know inseam. That tends to have as much importance on frame sizing.

Are you looking for a more upright position, or do you have the spinal flexibility/core strength and want something with more of a drop-bar set up?

Ultra-endurance cyclist/bikepacker Jay Petervary was struck by a car yesterday on the way to Salida during his Great Divide ITT attempt/fundraiser ride. He survived, but with several broken bones & wounds. Love him or not this is brutal, he's lucky to be alive.

No details out yet other than he's in Colorado Springs. From the way his wife posted, it seems like the driver was not apprehended, but lots of unknowns. From looking where his dot stopped on trackleaders, he was on CR 53 which is a gravel road IIRC.

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Originally Posted by alfajores

Definitely do your reading on seat bags and droppers. I was surprised at some of the things I learned. I grabbed a couple of the sliding spacers to go on the seat tube like you mention so that I do not scratch the post.

For your bar bag, you may also prefer a caddy where you can mount a dry bag or compression sack to the front. I have one of these set ups and it works well on mountain bikes. It also allows you to use different bags for different trips and is super secure. Revelate and Oveja Negra make them for cheap!

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There are certainly lots of options. I think you're right, a cradle or harness seems best for versatility. The Bedrock Moab is interesting, but it's pretty much leave on the bike I think. If it's as stable and affects handling less than other options, it might be good. It seems like with any bag that straps to the head tube, I need to be willing to bend and pin my cables behind the bag against the bar. Has anyone tried the Baryak Ultra brackets and Talon harness? https://www.baryak.com/ Looks like the bag never touches the head tube, kinda sits suspended below the brackets. If that is stable front to back, it could be a winner. For a seat bag I ordered a Wayward Riders Louise https://waywardriders.com/ It seems way too minimal to be as stable as they claim, gets a few good reviews. Even with shipping from NZ it was worth trying one.

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Originally Posted by natebob

Has anyone tried the Baryak Ultra brackets and Talon harness? https://www.baryak.com/ Looks like the bag never touches the head tube, kinda sits suspended below the brackets. If that is stable front to back, it could be a winner.

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I would reach out to Path less Pedaled and see if they will review it for you. Or order it, have them review it, and then have it sent to you. It looks cool, but definitely more at home on an expedition bike like a Tumbleweed than on a gravel bike. I worry that all the apparatus would add too much weight for the value of suspending a bag. This would definitely make sense for big, 30L bags up front when you are riding for months at a time.

Dang, I wish I knew about them when I was in Melbourne this year! I would have gone to check them out.

I use a Baryak with a Revelate harness and random dry bag. It does push it off the bars and cables nicely. You have to get used to a slight chopper/flip-flop steering feeling once you suspend the weight out front. But, it is not terrible.

I'll try to find a photo to help with this explanation of mounting. The part of the harness that normally mounts to the bars, I attach to the front most part of the Baryak. Then, the part of the harness that is usually attached to the head tube gets threaded over the stem (or through the "bars" of the Baryak. It works well and is very stable.

Best photo I could find...

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...b316c2a850.jpg

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However, the Baryak is not as useful as an aerobar as I'd like. It is too short and cramped (but I think they make a longer version now).

I want to experiment with standard aero extensions and a harness mounted 90 degrees to normal. It might place it too far out front, but the frontal area should be less, which I'm finding is a bigger deal than expected for Tour Divide type of riding.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Iowagriz

I use a Baryak with a Revelate harness and random dry bag. It does push it off the bars and cables nicely. You have to get used to a slight chopper/flip-flop steering feeling once you suspend the weight out front. But, it is not terrible.

I'll try to find a photo to help with this explanation of mounting. The part of the harness that normally mounts to the bars, I attach to the front most part of the Baryak. Then, the part of the harness that is usually attached to the head tube gets threaded over the stem (or through the "bars" of the Baryak. It works well and is very stable.

Best photo I could find...

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...b316c2a850.jpg

Sent from my SM-S908U using Tapatalk

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Thanks for the info. and pic. Looks like the bag is nicely tucked in below the bar, and far away from head tube and cables. I'm not concerned with how it works with aero bars or as a gravel rig. How do you think it would work for rough singletrack?

I've used the same setup on my mtb with good luck. I seem to be able to snug the harness to the Baryak tighter than just to handlebars and head tube. I originally got it for bikepacking with my mtb as the brake cables didn't need moved as much with it.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Iowagriz

I've used the same setup on my mtb with good luck. I seem to be able to snug the harness to the Baryak tighter than just to handlebars and head tube. I originally got it for bikepacking with my mtb as the brake cables didn't need moved as much with it.

Sent from my SM-S908U using Tapatalk

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That is good to hear, thanks. I think I'm going to give it a try. Seems like well thought out, well made product, and a good small company to support.

From this evening in Vermont
Love the new frame
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Been waiting months for this...and: wait just a bit longer, I guess:
https://www.canyon.com/en-us/gravel-...n-product-grid

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That's the spendy one. No idea why Canyon sticks with their ugly palette (esp. the sand) <shrug>, but I dig the Van Halen motif!

Thoughts on the new Grail?

42mm tire clearance? They def pigeonholed it for racers on nicer condition roads. I do like the integrated storage options though. No 12s Di2 build, which is prob just a parts availability issue.

But the integrated bars are a hard no from me. I can accept hidden cables in 2023, but a one piece stem/bar is just dumb. It costs like $400 and 3 hours to change reach, and you'd better like the drop shape they offer you.

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Originally Posted by climberevan

42mm tire clearance? They def pigeonholed it for racers on nicer condition roads.

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From another site:
"Jasper Ockeleon mentioned in an Instagram story today that he is running 45mm Schwalbe RS tires 'easily', so the 42mm seems very conservative for some reason."

I'd almost always have 40 or 42 anyways...and anything wider than a 45 and I'm hoppin on the MTB.

No comment on the bars...I suppose I'll learn to like them. :D

Delete double-post.

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Originally Posted by smartyiak

"he is running 45mm Schwalbe RS tires 'easily', so the 42mm seems very conservative for some reason."

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Until you encounter an event where you have to ride though sticky mud (a la Unbound 2023) and rub a hole through your frame because your using bigger tires than recommended.

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Originally Posted by Dee Hubbs

Until you encounter an event where you have to ride though sticky mud (a la Unbound 2023) and rub a hole through your frame because your using bigger tires than recommended.

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Exactly. More margin for error is good. Plus, why not just make it fit 50s? Their own Grizl and a lot of others fit 50s just fine with normal 68mm BBs. Yes, they would need to drop a stay, but I never understood the big aversion to that.

More clearance more better.
From after work today in SoVT

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How about:
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I wonder what the real answer is?🤷🏻♂️


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by climberevan

42mm tire clearance? They def pigeonholed it for racers on nicer condition roads. I do like the integrated storage options though. No 12s Di2 build, which is prob just a parts availability issue.

But the integrated bars are a hard no from me. I can accept hidden cables in 2023, but a one piece stem/bar is just dumb. It costs like $400 and 3 hours to change reach, and you'd better like the drop shape they offer you.

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Agree on integrated bar stem. Works great of you are a pro and someone else will swap it for you. And pay for it.

I have been so close to getting a canyon but I am on the cusp of medium and large.

Attachment 473121

Well, at least they got rid of the hover bar! Definitely not a fan of integrated bars and narrow clearance, but canyon looks to have a pretty solid lineup, one frame for pure gravel racing/riding and for the rest of us, a solid adventure bike that does it all.
Nice to see the GRX 820 starting to be speced. Thinking the 12 speed, unstoppable would be a nice upgrade from my destroyed entry-level SRAM group. Curious if anyone has tried it out yet.

7:00 minutes of highlights from the first 45 minutes of the World Gravel Championship, from the POV of Payson McElveen.
Enjoy:

Wow. That is a great vid.

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Originally Posted by Dee Hubbs

7:00 minutes of highlights from the first 45 minutes of the World Gravel Championship, from the POV of Payson McElveen.
Enjoy:

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Wicked nice back east. Did 77 miles on the Northern Rail Trail through the west central Shire today. Really enjoyed it
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Originally Posted by buttahflake

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What gearing? Looks like maybe running a 42T with Eagle (10-50?). What's your opinion on your setup? I'm collecting intel - not sure if Eagle or XPLR is the route for me. Ride a good bit of road, want 1x... so was leaning XPLR with 44t x 10-44... other options are 42t upfront with same 10-44 or going to Eagle 44t x 10x50.
Thoughts?

Good eye, that is a 42t with a 10-50 cassette and a GX rear mech. We have insanely steep dirt roads and unmaintained class 4-6 roads back here in northern New England. Set up is perfect for me.

Got a little in town magic hour ride after work.

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I even put the flats back on to ride in Tevas since it feels like summer again.

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Originally Posted by buttahflake

Good eye, that is a 42t with a 10-50 cassette and a GX rear mech. We have insanely steep dirt roads and unmaintained class 4-6 roads back here in northern New England. Set up is perfect for me.

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Awesome! Another data point... albeit, contrary to the way I was leaning. ha! Thanks for the intel and stoke!

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Originally Posted by Peruvian

Got a little in town magic hour ride after work.

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Looks glorious! Tevas were the proper choice! But now - I feel like I have to guess your drivetrain too... Raceface 40t x 10-42 rival 11sp?

Probably a swing and miss - but kind fun to try.

It’s a stock 2017 Kona Sutra LTD drivetrain - Sram Rival 1 with RF 36 tooth narrow/wide pulling a Sram 10-42 11 speed cassette.